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Psychic Awakening - Deathwatch Hopes


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#1
Of the night

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So what do people expect us to get in psychic awakening? I imagine we'll be in the "greater good" or "saga of the beast" books (tau and orks respectively is practically guaranteed) so it would make the most sense for us to be the opposition in one of them. Due to the genestealer in that shadowsun photo and the death guard v tau snippet i imagine it'll be nids, tau and death guard in "the greater good" leaving us for "saga of the beast" (i reckon space wolves will join us as well due to the saga wording).

 

So far the other non-codex standard marine loyalists in psychic awakening have got doctrine and chaplain litany access for dark angels, blood angels and black templars. Grey knights got their own special version of doctrines and litanies. I imagine we will get the basic chaplain litanies and  a specialist form of doctrines like the grey knights modelled on our existing doctrines perhaps. Given how we already have kraken and vengeance rounds for extra AP i don't think GW would give us EVEN MORE AP  options for our boltguns. Plus deathwatch are the epitome of tactical flexibility so i think a pick and choose doctrine system like the grey knights have makes more sense than the procedural codex version. And it would make sense for us to have specialised doctrines as we are the xenos specialised army.

 

So to sum up i expect:

- Deathwatch doctrines

- Chaplain litanies (possibly with a deathwatch specific set)

- extra relics

- extra stratagems

- extra warlord traits

 

Also a fervent hope of mine is that we FINALLY get access to the primaris vanguard units. I have infiltrators all painted and ready to go!


Edited by Of the night, 16 January 2020 - 10:42 PM.

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#2
Mr4Minutes

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I’m thinking right along the same lines as you are.

Definitely getting new chaplain litanies.(as all chaplain based units, even CSM, have gone this route) It would be nice to get our own litany tree.

I’d also like to see our own psychic tree, as the other chapters have now gotten their own.

I don’t think we’ll get the C:SM style doctrines, buy something more like the GKs are getting. My speculation are they’ll move our +1 to wound strats to a pick one to be active all game system and we’ll spend CP to change it.

I’d love to get the generic SM strats(including 1cp relics and multiple warlord traits) along with some new DW specific ones.

We also need some new relics and warlord traits. For the most part ours are pretty mediocre.

I’d be really excited if we could finally take the Primaris vanguard units. Over the moon if we could form kill teams with them in some way.

I’m finding DW need more options for units to take personally as we actually don’t get that many choices. Mainly different flavors of infantry. So any new things that spice up our toolbox selections would be nice.

#3
IronDreddKnight

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I like what youve both said about litanies and a doctrine, more strats, relics and WL traits. I think its a safe bet well get most of that.

Im hoping well be able to use bolter discipline alongside SIA again. But i doubt theyll do that freely. Maybe as an army wide stratagem? So it comes at a price.

#4
GrinNfool

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This is pretty much wishlisting at this point huh, but I guess there are something that would be nice based on what has been done for BA/DA/GK

 

Doctrines in some form, I'd be fine with normal doctrines honestly, but not sure how likely that is.  I expect some kinda of strange thing like GK have, but about half as powerful, like  (+1" to charge in venator doctrine) or (+1a in malleus doctrine)  Something like that possibly, but like I said its all guessing.

 

I also don't think we will see any changes or reworks to any of our current mechanics or strategems, said before that DW needs a codex, not a PA to really get us where we need to be, without seriously breaking some things.

 

I think/hope there is a chance we will get a new squad in the form of a primaris vanguard squad.  Using infils and slotting in things like incursors, suppressors, and maybe elims if they can figure out how to get around the fact we can't put a DW shoulder on them because of a freakin cape... for different squad benefits.  Barring that I would think at least we will get rules on adding those aside from maybe elims and suppressors to our intercessor squads.  Also think there is an ok chance we get the invictor... maybe.  Strategem wise would hope for some of the generic marine and primaris ones (like vets or transhuman)  I'm not sure what else they would give us strat wise, they seemed to be struggling for ideas even in our codex, resulting in some very over costed things.  Expect some sort of litany and access to the new litanies, as well as psychic disc, though no clue what it would be.

 

Wishlist wise I would LOVE some sort of CP gaining tool since DW struggle to get enough, and many of their strats would be 1 cp in other factions.  Heavy wish listing would include reworking our "chapter tactic" completely, into something... good, although in fairness with SIA not costing points anymore, thats our tactic, and I'm fine with that, just the secondary part of our CT is clunky.  Maybe a strat to let us use SIA with BD on one squad for a CP?  Massive wishlisting... Oh and maybe some sort of watch fortress traits, that one seems REALLY doubtful to me though.

 

As for when?  Would put money they will be in the saga of the beast.  DW was founded during the war of the beast, making it an appropriate backdrop for DW.  Gotta purge those Xenos while dying heroically massively out numbered, so orks fit our MO.


Edited by GrinNfool, 17 January 2020 - 07:28 AM.


#5
Lemondish

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I like what youve both said about litanies and a doctrine, more strats, relics and WL traits. I think its a safe bet well get most of that.

Im hoping well be able to use bolter discipline alongside SIA again. But i doubt theyll do that freely. Maybe as an army wide stratagem? So it comes at a price.


I honestly don't think Bolter discipline with SIA is out of the question. Codex marines can emulate it pretty easily with very little cost, and their Doctrines apply to all weapons as well. As such, I don't think SIA extending to all bolt weaponry, even vehicles, is out of the question either.

As far as what I hope to see...a new Deathwatch only psychic discipline that emulates Xenos spells.

Like everyone else, I want to see Infiltrators, Incursors, and Eliminators added to the watch within kill teams in some way. And I kind of want the Impulsor, even though my favourite team breakdown wouldn't fit...

I want mission tactics to expand to vehicles or be reworked in some way. It is pretty weak already...

I want a Primaris black shield equivalent - something that would give another melee weapon in that unit alongside heroic intervention.

But most of all I would welcome any change that encourages building diverse kill teams over the single minded, single purpose, and almost entirely single loadout squads we have now.
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#6
NKirkham24

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Am I right in thinking the only info about PA6 is the title so far? I'm hopeful we get a look in, but it may be a later book. GW have said for certain that there are only six have they?

 

I think we could see our version of the GK Tides, but with one per xenos unit, possibly named after the Watch Fortresses in the codex, to reflect the speciality of each Fortress against the local xenos threat i.e. Damocles fortress get boosts v Tau.

 

Relics and Warlord Traits are a given, and it'd be nice to get some more options. Strategems I guess will be ported over from C:SM but any new ones would be welcome. It's been a while since i've played DW, but am I right in remembering that +1 to wound Strats are 2 CP?If so, I think they could come down to 1 CP each.

 

A psychic discipline is a must and seems pretty likely, given the other SM factions have all got their own. A more bespoke list of powers would be very welcome and I think there would be some interesting stuff they could do. 


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#7
Irbis

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GW have said for certain that there are only six have they?


They said no such thing, and seeing half of the armies in the game are yet to show up in PA, better bet will be 12 or so.
 

I think we could see our version of the GK Tides, but with one per xenos unit, possibly named after the Watch Fortresses in the codex, to reflect the speciality of each Fortress against the local xenos threat i.e. Damocles fortress get boosts v Tau.


This is exceptionally unlikely seeing it goes against the whole design direction of 8th edition. All armies lost specific bonuses against army X (as frankly, it's bad rule writing, either you make them autowin against army X or autolose against everyone else) and instead gained something generic, I wouldn't expect anything anti-xeno save for a handful of stratagems.



#8
NKirkham24

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Apologies, that was meant to say "HAVE GW said", hence the question mark. I certainly hope there are plenty more to come so we all get some new toys. 

 

Unless, of course, missing out in PA heralds a new Codex instead, but that is even more unlikely.

 

I think we are the only faction that would warrant those type of bonuses against certain factions, but I take your point, we would be at a significant disadvantage against non-xenos. You're probably right that the best we could expect would be more faction specifc strats. 


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#9
Boyadventurer

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I'm not holding out hope for too much. With SIA no longer costing any points, I'm worried that that is going to be our "counts as" Doctrines. Of course, it could always be the equivalent of all the chapters getting a second rule added to their CT, but I feel like that might even be asking too much, hah. I think Bolter Discipline with SIA needs to come back. With the other chapters getting BD + Doctrines, that brings them up to around the damage level of SIA if not beyond, especially combines with the Rapid Fire 2 stratagem everyone else gets.

 

Litanies have to be a guarantee. Imagine if we were the only Astartes faction without them?

 

I'd like *something* to expand out psychic repertoire, since other chapters get access to 3 disciplines now. Even if its just like getting 1 power from each of the other chapters, that would be kind of cool. Wishlisting long shot (depending on how the licensing worked of course), we get new psychic powers based off of some of the chapter-specific ones in the FFG RPG.

 

All the basic new stratagems should be a given too. Though instead of getting the veteran intercessor strat, I'd rather just pay an extra point and our intercessors get the vet statline (sorta like the DC intercessors). I guess it made sense initially that when 8th dropped, all the primaris we got were just from the grey shields, but at this point in the fluff, if other chapters have veteran primaris, they can cough up a few for the Watch. I doubt we're getting a Primaris Watch Master mini, so I'm kinda hoping we get a variation of the Chapter Master strat, so it's an option for Primaris lists.

I'd love a new, correct, points page, since it doesn't look like they're going to FAQ Chapter Approved at this point.

 

I doubt we'll get vanguard primaris, or at least we definitely won't get Eliminators since the left shoulder isn't its own bit. I doubt GW is going to break its own stupid precedent at this point. W/e, I don't mind paying a CP to ally in some IF eliminators. Infiltrators are a toss up too since their bolters already have a special effect that they might not want stacking with SIA. And having a Vanguard-exclusive kill team would leave reivers in a weird spot -- are they removed as an option from a Fortis team or can they be in both? I really would love to get something that uses Concealed Positions though. It fits DW tactics a lot more than a tank with a big gun that stays still and fires twice (but don't take my executioners away!!)

I hope the rumours of a Primaris Ragnar Blackmane are true. These new marine characters over the past few months have been great to turn into DW, it would be dope to have an awesome Space Wolf character to use as well


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#10
Irbis

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I wish DW just finally got Land Speeders and flyers. What fits special forces image better than supporting gunships? Vanguard too, it's way overdue.

 

As far as PA goes, I'd just dump Mission Tactics into new doctrines and give DW actual traits. Maybe even 'build a fortress' type of deal, with small bonuses countering spammy list styles? I'd say that's unlikely, sadly...


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#11
Boyadventurer

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I want that blurry landspeeder so bad!


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#12
Mobius0288

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A few small things I'm hoping for from psychic awakening:

- Plastic Thunderhawk with Deathwatch markings

- POTMS added to the Blackstar datasheet

- Point drop on DW termies in order to more easily fit a unit of 31 terminators in my list

- Techmarines as elite choices

- Regular apothecaries, or cheaper versions include-able in a kill team (like a helix for infiltrators)

 

 

For real, I hope our doctrine equivalent is something defensive tbh. I want more durable kill teams than more kinds of "reroll this weapon against blah." I miss the old formation to a degree and I know they incorporated some of that through the stratagems. Maybe detachments or troop choices could designate themselves as being from a (malleus, purgitoris, etc) watch fortress, giving them reroll failed saves against the matching unit type. A FNP would be my 1st choice but with iron hands and death guard already having it, not likely.

 

Psychics: Maybe something that makes a unit weaker... either reduces the enemy unit saving throw or takes an additional mortal wound for every unit that shoots at it. Maybe a psychic power that gives FNP to troops in an aura.

 

Litanies: Really need something with -1 to hit, maybe exploding 6's against xenos which could sync with the stratagem we have (thinking about how to give us reasons to bring HTHs competitively).

 

Relics: They nailed the big ones from lore I think, I want to start seeing some stolen xenos tech. Something that screws with enemy psycher (every roll causes perils within 6"?, -1 to tests or denies?). Some sort of combi-melta relic. Some sort of sniper relic we can replace for either stalker bolter version that allows us to target characters.

 

Warlord traits: Hope to god we can add another warlord trait guy to our army for -1 CP. Anything beyond that would be a bonus for me.


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#13
Of the night

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A few small things I'm hoping for from psychic awakening:

- Plastic Thunderhawk with Deathwatch markings

- POTMS added to the Blackstar datasheet

- Point drop on DW termies in order to more easily fit a unit of 31 terminators in my list

- Techmarines as elite choices

- Regular apothecaries, or cheaper versions include-able in a kill team (like a helix for infiltrators)

 

 

For real, I hope our doctrine equivalent is something defensive tbh. I want more durable kill teams than more kinds of "reroll this weapon against blah." I miss the old formation to a degree and I know they incorporated some of that through the stratagems. Maybe detachments or troop choices could designate themselves as being from a (malleus, purgitoris, etc) watch fortress, giving them reroll failed saves against the matching unit type. A FNP would be my 1st choice but with iron hands and death guard already having it, not likely.

 

Psychics: Maybe something that makes a unit weaker... either reduces the enemy unit saving throw or takes an additional mortal wound for every unit that shoots at it. Maybe a psychic power that gives FNP to troops in an aura.

 

Litanies: Really need something with -1 to hit, maybe exploding 6's against xenos which could sync with the stratagem we have (thinking about how to give us reasons to bring HTHs competitively).

 

Relics: They nailed the big ones from lore I think, I want to start seeing some stolen xenos tech. Something that screws with enemy psycher (every roll causes perils within 6"?, -1 to tests or denies?). Some sort of combi-melta relic. Some sort of sniper relic we can replace for either stalker bolter version that allows us to target characters.

 

Warlord traits: Hope to god we can add another warlord trait guy to our army for -1 CP. Anything beyond that would be a bonus for me.

 

I'd love a techmarine as a HQ choice! Extremely unlikely though. It'd be a great cheap HQ to fill out the battalion requirements and keep my leviathan dread operational. To be honest i don't know why we don't get techmarines. It's hardly game breaking and it's very lore friendly. Same for regualr apothecaries to be fair.



#14
Qui-Gon

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Based off what GK did not get (reduced relic stratagem cost, additional warlord trait stratagem) I'll assume we aren't getting those either.



#15
Azaiel

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My hopes (and dreams) for PA:

Doctrines

Our Watchmasters get reroll hits instead of reroll misses like SM chapter masters.

The new Primaris units both in regular units and incorporated in kill teams

The Primaris Rhino

New Stratagems, but not only anti-Xenos ones. Most of us go up against Chaos and other Imperials in our games.

Litanies for our Chaplains

For the love of the Emperah, new spells for our libbies

SIA to be used with Bolter discipline again.

Access to something equivalent to the master chapter characters from PA book 3(?)

Tech marine (not likely until we get a primaris version)


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#16
Boyadventurer

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Grey Knights got some serious boosts too -- a single strat and tide put together boots their storm bolters to 4 shot S6 Ap-1 D2. I think that beats anything we're doing right now.

Also, I was thinking about Eliminators recently, it might be neat to get strats that allow us to use their different rounds. Or just more strats that expand the SIA repertoire (like Tempest shells) would be neat.


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#17
Qui-Gon

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Personally, at this point unless we get a massive surprise inclusion in the Greater Good or Saga of the Beast, we are looking at May. My personal gut feeling of not getting updated until July is currently holding strong.



#18
Prot

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I’ve just always wanted, and thought it was very appropriate to have a unique anti Xenos Psychic discipline. 
 

I don’t think there will be any fixes per say.... like the Flyer for example, but I think it’s time for the inclusion of at least a few of the missing Primaris. Because really at this point if they don’t allow the use of more Primaris, there isn’t a huge need for a Primaris DW Watchmaster. 


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#19
Irbis

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I’ve just always wanted, and thought it was very appropriate to have a unique anti Xenos Psychic discipline.


You mean, like this? whistlingW.gif
 

1: Greenskinsbane: WC6, select an enemy ORKS unit visible to the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
2: Greater Bad: WC6, select an enemy T'A'U E'M'P'I'R'E unit visible to the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
3: Knife Ears to a Brainfight: WC6, select an enemy AEULDAEURURUEURUEUIRI unit visible to the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
4: You Won't Be Back: WC6, select an enemy NECRON unit visible to the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
5: Tyranope: WC6, select an enemy TYRANIDS unit visible to the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
6: Super Applicable Very Useful Power You'll Get To Use All The Time: WC6, select an enemy SSLYTH unit visible to the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.


Not mine BTW, just saw it posted in leaks thread and kind of liked it...



#20
Mr4Minutes

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I don’t powers that only target a specific faction personally. It makes the army way to specialized in a game with so many other factions. I just want the Xeno powers. Give me some doom and jinx lol.

#21
Lemondish

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I’ve just always wanted, and thought it was very appropriate to have a unique anti Xenos Psychic discipline.


You mean, like this? whistlingW.gif

1: Greenskinsbane: WC6, select an enemy ORKS unit visible to the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
2: Greater Bad: WC6, select an enemy T'A'U E'M'P'I'R'E unit visible to the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
3: Knife Ears to a Brainfight: WC6, select an enemy AEULDAEURURUEURUEUIRI unit visible to the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
4: You Won't Be Back: WC6, select an enemy NECRON unit visible to the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
5: Tyranope: WC6, select an enemy TYRANIDS unit visible to the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
6: Super Applicable Very Useful Power You'll Get To Use All The Time: WC6, select an enemy SSLYTH unit visible to the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.


Not mine BTW, just saw it posted in leaks thread and kind of liked it...

Horrid.
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#22
NKirkham24

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I would quite like to see a character kit like Lazarus. Let us build a named character, like we have with Artemis, but with the option of different load outs and being generic.

I’d also like him to be from a lesser known chapter, again like Artemis. Give them a little spotlight, Deathwatch are the ideal vehicle to get some models for obscure chapters.
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#23
Irbis

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I would quite like to see a character kit like Lazarus. Let us build a named character, like we have with Artemis, but with the option of different load outs and being generic.

I’d also like him to be from a lesser known chapter, again like Artemis. Give them a little spotlight, Deathwatch are the ideal vehicle to get some models for obscure chapters.

 
Seeing last time GW wrote flagship DW media (that one terribad comic) and 3 out of 5 members were first founders for pretty much no reason (4, really, because "Flesh Tearer" was written like generic Blood Angel showing zero actual FT traits) I wouldn't be holding my breath...
 

Horrid.


L85IbAt.jpg



#24
Lemondish

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L85IbAt.jpg


My comment was on the quality of the joke.

Don't quit your day job, bub.

#25
Prot

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Okay guys, everyone's keeping their day jobs right? And we can move along. (Personally I found the whole thing funny but when you see even ridiculous rumours you have to wonder their validity given the past.)

 

 

I would quite like to see a character kit like Lazarus. Let us build a named character, like we have with Artemis, but with the option of different load outs and being generic.

I’d also like him to be from a lesser known chapter, again like Artemis. Give them a little spotlight, Deathwatch are the ideal vehicle to get some models for obscure chapters.

 

Lazarus is incredible. But I actually really like Artemis. Honestly he might be one of my favourite ever marine captain sculpts.

 

This is one of the few armies that I've painted twice (or more) and really enjoyed the HQ.

 

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I just think as an 'action' pose they pulled this off as a classic. Most of the Primaris (which I am a fan of) are just static.

 

Plus the Deathwatch are (what I imagine) will be a huge repository of the very best, and perhaps last, of the 'classic' line up. Termies, Jump pack, vanguard, etc.

 

I think a 'generic' Watchmaster Primaris is the way to go. The old one would still be legal, and the new Primaris one would make sense and perhaps open the door to Primaris transports, etc. 


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