Assault Terminators/Ancient/Captain in an RG Army?

[GenerationTerrorist]

Hi all.

I have set up the basis of my RG army as my 2020 Project....

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- Phobos Captain

- Phobos Librarian

- 2*Phobos Lieutenant (one with Ex Tenebris, 1 with Opressors End with Reiver Keyword)

 

 

- 2*5 Infiltrators with Comms Array

- 1*10 Incursors with Haywire

 

- 2*5 Grav Chute Reivers

- 1*Invictor Warsuit

 

- 1*3 Supressors

- 1*3 Eliminators

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I am wondering whether it would be worth beefing this out with a Vanguard Detachment, led by Shrike, Terminator Captain with Claws relic, 5*TH/SS Terminators, Terminator Ancient, 2*Contemptor Dreads with Multi-Melta (or Venerable Dreads with Lascannon). This would be my 1st Company Detachment to go with my 10th Company Battalion/Vanguard.

 

Does anyone else have experience of using Terminators, including Characters in TDA, within a Raven Guard army in 8th Edition? Or are Jump Pack units the way to go?

Or is everything geared more towards Primaris stuff now?

 

Many thanks :-) 

[duz_]

Looks like fun

You might as well make it a vanguard + Battalion for the extra cp no reason not to!

 

I've enjoyed using my th/as termies this edition and that's before the new codex and supplemen! Reivers on the other hand... What load out were you gonna give them?

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

In a more casual setting? Sure!

 

The reality is that Terminators (especially stock-standard vanilla ones) are pretty bad this edition. The good news is that RG have more tools than most to help them get into CC and to stay alive. In a more casual setting I expect you can have fun using them. What you WILL find is that they are rarely used by most RG players, simply because the same tools that would help Terminators (Master of Ambush, Infiltrators, See But Remain Unseen) are going to give a better return on stronger units (Aggressors, Centurions).

 

The thing with Terminators (and even more so Assault Terminators) is that they will either 1) Never get into combat, simply serve as a distraction, or 2) Will get into combat, then die on the following turn. 5 TH/SS Assault Terms do ~10 wounds to a KEQ model on the first round of assault, and cost 205 points. Vanguard Veterans have the EXACT same offensive output when equipped the same, have more mobility, slightly less survivability to small arms fire, and cost 30 less points.

 

6 Aggressors (for 222 Points, so close to a unit of 5 Terminators) put out 114 bolter shots (assuming the stand still), then after they obliterate what screens they have in front, they can charge in and toss around 25 Power Fist attacks, which do ~10.5 wounds to a KEQ on the first round of combat - just to give a comparison. Assault Centurions, which are even more absurd, are simply broken right now for their cost/damage figures, so much so I fully expect them to be nerfed in the next rules cycle.

 

At the end of the day, the Space Marine book is very strong, and I expect that in a casual setting / beer and pretzels game, you can probably take almost any unit and do well (even Assault Terminators), so it really depends on your group and who you are playing against!

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

What Vyper said...

 

but also consider standard terminators over assault.  They are comparable to assault terminators vs big targets(using fury of the first) but can also shred chaff and cost less points.  

[thewarriorhunter]

Vyper made great points so I'll share my experience with my Cataphractii.

 

I've got 5 and also a Captain in Cataphractii armor. Terminators are slow, especially mine. I think in this game being slow (and that expensive is a liability). I joke (but it's funny because it's true) that the only way to effectively move my terminators around the board is to successfully charge and pile in/consolidate. No joke the max movement I can get in the movement phase is 7" and if I've done that I can't charge - 4" base move and half the distance of advance rolls.

 

That being said being able to drop them into an opponents back field and snipe a character is tasty. I try to exploit a hole in my opponent's back lines and drop them down where they will do maximum damage - which sadly is usually only against squishy infantry characters. They've got low STR high volume shooting so you do what you can. In CC they're ok but they don't have a ton of attacks.

 

Overall their fun but not competitive. If you can get them in cover they'll be much more survivable and if you can get them in combat and lock stuff up or wrap things they'll stick around longer. For me they tend to be a missile I send it, cause some damage and draw some fire, then they're gone.

[GenerationTerrorist]

Cheers for the expansive feedback, guys.

From a purely Fluff perspective, would there be Assault Centurions in the 1st Company?

Or is it only Terminators, Sternguard and Vanguard Veterans?

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

From a fluff perspective, there would be both Tactical and Assault Terminators in the 1st Company.

 

A better way to think about the first company is it is simply 100 "Veteran" dudes. Typically being inducted into the 1st Co includes getting your Crux Terminatus, which entitles the bearer the option to utilize Terminator armor, in either squad configuration. They all will, in due time, receive training in a suit of Terminator armor. How many units are deployed (and what configuration) basically comes down to the mission at hand and how many suits of armor does the chapter own.

 

It's very akin to the fluff around the new phobos units and the 10th, that one marine is trained in multiple methods of war and will trade out his gear depending on the theatre and needs of the mission.