Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Grey Knights,1500 points


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1
Skywrath

Skywrath

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,024 posts
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Faction: Grey Knights, Dark Angels

Looking for suggestions - fairly new to grey knights. Looking for optimization first (i.e reasonably competitive), flavour second. 

 

Current ideas:

 

-Lord Kaldor Draigo (Already assembled and painted)

-Grand Master Voldus

-Nemesis Dread-Knight

-Terminator Chaplain

 

-2 x Terminator Squads

-1 x Paladin Squad

-1 x Purifier Squad

 

-1 x Venerable Dreadnought

-2 x Land Raider Redeemers 

 


7DtmK1a.pnge2ZWJbt.pngt44uaS0.pngIJKynoL.pngtFMKXdu.pngAhRNilX.png

#2
Tralador

Tralador

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 48 posts
Looks like you are heading towards a paladin blob. With the strategems hitting one unit, a 10 man Paladin squad with a chaplain and an apothecary can be a good start. Either Draigo or Voldus for rerolls. IMO strikes are better in the troops, so 2-3 strikes for screening and objectives would help.


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [112 PL, 1,494pts] ++

+ HQ +

Grey Knight Chaplain [8 PL, 107pts]: Storm bolter

Librarian [9 PL, 103pts]: Storm Bolter
. Nemesis Warding Stave: Nemesis Warding Stave

Lord Kaldor Draigo [12 PL, 180pts]

+ Troops +

Strike Squad [7 PL, 89pts]
. 3x Grey Knight (Halberd): 3x Nemesis Force Halberd, 3x Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight (Psycannon): Psycannon
. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Warding Stave: Nemesis Warding Stave

Strike Squad [7 PL, 89pts]
. 3x Grey Knight (Halberd): 3x Nemesis Force Halberd, 3x Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight (Psycannon): Psycannon
. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Warding Stave: Nemesis Warding Stave

Strike Squad [7 PL, 89pts]
. 3x Grey Knight (Halberd): 3x Nemesis Force Halberd, 3x Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight (Psycannon): Psycannon
. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Warding Stave: Nemesis Warding Stave

+ Elites +

Apothecary [5 PL, 88pts]
. Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

Paladin Squad [32 PL, 472pts]
. 3x Paladin (Halberd): 3x Nemesis Force Halberd, 3x Storm Bolter
. Paladin (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)
. . Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd
. Paladin (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)
. . Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd
. Paladin (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)
. . Nemesis Force Sword: Nemesis Force Sword
. Paladin (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)
. . Nemesis Force Sword: Nemesis Force Sword
. 2x Paladin (Warding Stave): 2x Nemesis Warding Stave, 2x Storm Bolter
. Paragon: Storm Bolter
. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

Venerable Dreadnought [9 PL, 145pts]: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon

+ Fast Attack +

Interceptor Squad [16 PL, 132pts]
. 5x Interceptor (Halberd): 5x Nemesis Force Halberd, 5x Storm Bolter
. Interceptor Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

++ Total: [112 PL, 1,494pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Given the units above, this would be fairly good. You will be CP starved keeping the paladins alive and doing work, but they will be a strong point.

CP management and Keeping your strikes alive, screening, and scoring while the paladins do work would be key. My 2cents.

*Note: Paladin blobs are not really my thing and, IMO, purgators will outshine dreads now, so if you are collecting that might be a direction to go.
  • Corvus Fortis likes this

#3
Skywrath

Skywrath

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,024 posts
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Faction: Grey Knights, Dark Angels

That's something to consider, all right. That librarian you included in the list, is he a regular one, or a terminator one? Which one is better? 

 

Would you recommend a Dread-Knight over a dreadnought? And would you be able to justify on the benefits (or lack thereof) of a land raider in the army?


7DtmK1a.pnge2ZWJbt.pngt44uaS0.pngIJKynoL.pngtFMKXdu.pngAhRNilX.png

#4
Corvus Fortis

Corvus Fortis

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 746 posts
That librarian you included in the list, is he a regular one, or a terminator one? Which one is better?

 

 

There are only Terminator librarians for GK. We don't have PA ones.
 

 

Would you recommend a Dread-Knight over a dreadnought? And would you be able to justify on the benefits (or lack thereof) of a land raider in the army?

 

 

Standard Dreadknights are trash unless you oversaturate enemy anti-vehicle shooting with massed mech list which is suboptimal outside of very causal games. You can take one or two Grandmaster Dreadknights if you have enough line-of-sight blocks over the battlefield. Melee dreadnoughts are plain bad in the game currently, not only for GK. If you want to take dreadnought, give him twin lascannon and missile launcher and Astral Aim psychic power. Place him behind Line-of-Sight block. With this set up he is save and still can shoot through walls thanks to the psychic power.

 

So Dreadknights and Dreadnoughts don't compete you can take both, take none or take on of them - doesn't really matter.

 

Edit: Always take Venerable Dreadnought. Basic dreadnought is not worth such investment.


Edited by Corvus Fortis, 22 January 2020 - 12:50 PM.


#5
Skywrath

Skywrath

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,024 posts
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Faction: Grey Knights, Dark Angels

At the current time, I'm leaning towards Dreadknights, as I plan to have a Supreme Command Detachment of GK in my DA army. (More for experimentation). Could I ask to ammend the above list to be structured around those 2x Dreadknights and Kaldor? Also how good are they are at the current time?


Edited by Skywrath, 24 January 2020 - 02:37 PM.

7DtmK1a.pnge2ZWJbt.pngt44uaS0.pngIJKynoL.pngtFMKXdu.pngAhRNilX.png

#6
Tralador

Tralador

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 48 posts

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [114 PL, 1,498pts] ++

+ HQ +

Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight [14 PL, 175pts]: Dreadfist, Nemesis Daemon Greathammer

Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight [14 PL, 175pts]: Dreadfist, Nemesis Daemon Greathammer

Lord Kaldor Draigo [12 PL, 180pts]

+ Troops +

Strike Squad [14 PL, 103pts]
. 4x Grey Knight (Halberd): 4x Nemesis Force Halberd, 4x Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight (Psilencer): Psilencer
. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Warding Stave: Nemesis Warding Stave

Strike Squad [7 PL, 86pts]
. 3x Grey Knight (Halberd): 3x Nemesis Force Halberd, 3x Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight (Psilencer): Psilencer
. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Warding Stave: Nemesis Warding Stave

Strike Squad [7 PL, 86pts]
. 3x Grey Knight (Halberd): 3x Nemesis Force Halberd, 3x Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight (Psilencer): Psilencer
. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Warding Stave: Nemesis Warding Stave

+ Elites +

Apothecary [5 PL, 88pts]
. Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

Paladin Squad [32 PL, 460pts]
. 3x Paladin (Halberd): 3x Nemesis Force Halberd, 3x Storm Bolter
. Paladin (Psilencer): Psilencer (Terminator)
. . Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd
. Paladin (Psilencer): Psilencer (Terminator)
. . Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd
. Paladin (Psilencer): Psilencer (Terminator)
. . Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd
. Paladin (Psilencer): Psilencer (Terminator)
. . Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd
. 2x Paladin (Warding Stave): 2x Nemesis Warding Stave, 2x Storm Bolter
. Paragon: Storm Bolter
. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

Venerable Dreadnought [9 PL, 145pts]: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon

++ Total: [114 PL, 1,498pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Dropped the interceptors, switched to psilencers, dropped the two other HQs, added two dreadknights.

Dreadknights are extremely good. 2+/3++(sanctuary/prognosticar) t6, 12 wounds makes them take a lot of firepower. Most of the time, however armies can always deal with 1 turn 1. IMO, their guns are too expensive and you want them in melee our out of LOS as much as possible. Still, they can and will punch out a Knight on the charge with fight again or on death strategems, but they are an entire strike squad plus a different non-named hq in points.

Note: Math says psilencers win, so switched to psilencers.

#7
Skywrath

Skywrath

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,024 posts
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Faction: Grey Knights, Dark Angels

That list is looking to the the final one. Three questions before I lock this one in. 

 

1. Land Raiders any good for that list?

2. Would this list be competitive? Would PA make GK good?

3. Where do I find a Grey Knight apothecary, because I can't see one on the GW store?


Edited by Skywrath, 25 January 2020 - 04:59 AM.

7DtmK1a.pnge2ZWJbt.pngt44uaS0.pngIJKynoL.pngtFMKXdu.pngAhRNilX.png

#8
Seizeman

Seizeman

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 423 posts

1. I don't think land raiders are good in general, too expensive for how little they shoot. Four lascannons aren't that great when they hit on 3+, or 4+ if the raider is damaged. The transport capacity is pretty low, and paladins are quite resilient already so they don't need it.

 

If you want more firepower I'd just add more vendreads. Double twin autocannon is just 125 points for 8 shots at 48'' on 2+, ignoring cover and LOS if you use astral aim. They can even smite if the enemy (or the brother captain) is close enough. They are very good for sitting back inside objectives and quite durable thanks to tide of shadows, the half damage stratagem and even being able to stay out of LOS.

 

2. The list looks quite competitive. It's actually very similar to the one I've been testing lately, but I would make a few changes. First of all, everyone that's using halberds should use falchions. They are better than halberds against everything (technically halberds are very slightly superior on paladins against exactly T5, but that stops being true if they have hammerhand, which they should).

 

Secondly, I would not use heavy weapons on infantry. On strikes, the difference between them and bolters is so little that it's not worth losing your falchions for it. On paladins they are somewhat good if you have the spare points, except for the fact that it makes the psybolt ammunition stratagem useless on them. A single use of the stratagem makes the bolters do more more extra damage than the extra damage you get from the heavy weapons during the whole game.

 

Thirdly, GMNDKS are not worth having without heavy weapons (psilencer and psycanon). They are slow, and you will rarely have the chance to fight in close combat with them more than once, sometimes not even that, so most of their damage comes from shooting.  They are your only good platform for anti vehicle/monster weapons apart from dreadnoughts. It also combines very well with the "only in death does duty end" stratagem, since you can shoot with them again when they die and still have the stratagem avalaible for the combat phase.

 

Character wise, I don't think you have enough slots to make full use of the dominus discipline. You'll want sanctuary on your GMNDKs, so that leaves you with 3 dominus powers to choose. You absolutely want warp shaping, armored resilience and empirean domination, but ideally you would also have edict imperator and an extra warp shaping/amored resilience for redundancy. The easiest choice would be to swap Draigo with Voldus. He's just as good in combat, but has an extra power/deny and it is significanly cheaper, while his aura is just slightly inferior to Draigo's. The other option is to remove a GMNDK, since you don't have the points to afford it's heavy weapons nor the CP to use "heed the prognosticars" on him every turn (if you play two GMNDKS they both pretty much need to have 3++ save, otherwise the opponent will just focus the one with 4++, making the 3++ on the other one pointless), fully equip the other GMND and add a brother captain, which will give you the extra power you need and the smite aura, which is almost mandatory to make use of the tide of escalation. Also, it would allow you to take a relic, like the fury of deimos, wich is a lot of firepower for free.

 

Lastly, you have too many paladins for a 1500 points list  and not enough strikes. A unit of 7-8 paladins is good enough to anihilate anything that comes close, specially when you also have the apothecary, brother captain, Draigo/Voldus as heavy melee hitters. Strikes are pretty cheap now, and they are the most versatile unit in your army. You'll need at least 2 of them just to hold objectives, and you want at least a couple more to support your main force and gate around picking vulnerable units, compensate for losses, etc.

 

All in all, I would drop one of the GMNDKs and 3 paladins to add the brother captain (with a hammer) and two strike squads, swap Draigo for Voldus and equip everyone with falchions. If for some reason you want to keep draigo, you can change the weapons on the vendread to twin autocannons and take a few falchions away from the strikes or remove one extra paladin.

 

3. The terminator box contains the parts to build an apothecary and an ancient.


  • Tralador likes this

#9
Tralador

Tralador

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 48 posts

1. I don't think land raiders are good in general, ...
2. ... First of all, everyone that's using halberds should use falchions. They are better than halberds against everything ...

Secondly, I would not use heavy weapons on infantry. ...

Thirdly, GMNDKS are not worth having without heavy weapons (psilencer and psycanon). ...

Character wise, I don't think you have enough slots to make full use of the dominus discipline. ...


1. I agree, some people take them to astral aim the 4 las cannons, but that is a lot of points for not a whole lot more than a ven dread doing the same thing.

2. Mathematically, in a vacuum yes. The only issue I have with falchions is that they cost an additional point each. That adds up Fast to the point that you get a whole extra unit for the savings. This is definitely a personal list choice now. When they cost the same, it was no contest.

If you plan to run convergence mainly (I do, then you want the psilencers IMO). If you plan for escalation mostly, yeah, ditch em.

I never get to use GMDK guns enough to make me feel good about having them. One gun is 1/4 of a strike squad for something that, between death and CC will *maybe* fire once. Again, up to you.

Yeah a chaplain or librarian add in would be great.
*Note: Autocannons are index now, so use at your own risk, yeah I’m sad too.


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [121 PL, 1,500pts] ++

+ HQ +

Brother-Captain [9 PL, 113pts]: Storm Bolter
. Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd

Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight [14 PL, 185pts]: Dreadfist, Dreadknight teleporter, Nemesis Daemon Greathammer

Grand Master Voldus [10 PL, 153pts]

+ Troops +

Strike Squad [7 PL, 86pts]
. 3x Grey Knight (Halberd): 3x Nemesis Force Halberd, 3x Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight (Psilencer): Psilencer
. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd

Strike Squad [7 PL, 86pts]
. 3x Grey Knight (Halberd): 3x Nemesis Force Halberd, 3x Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight (Psilencer): Psilencer
. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd

Strike Squad [7 PL, 86pts]
. 3x Grey Knight (Halberd): 3x Nemesis Force Halberd, 3x Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight (Psilencer): Psilencer
. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd

Strike Squad [7 PL, 86pts]
. 3x Grey Knight (Halberd): 3x Nemesis Force Halberd, 3x Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight (Psilencer): Psilencer
. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd

Strike Squad [7 PL, 86pts]
. 3x Grey Knight (Halberd): 3x Nemesis Force Halberd, 3x Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight (Psilencer): Psilencer
. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd

Strike Squad [7 PL, 86pts]
. 3x Grey Knight (Halberd): 3x Nemesis Force Halberd, 3x Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight (Psilencer): Psilencer
. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd

+ Elites +

Apothecary [5 PL, 76pts]
. Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd

Paladin Squad [32 PL, 312pts]
. 4x Paladin (Halberd): 4x Nemesis Force Halberd, 4x Storm Bolter
. Paladin (Psilencer): Psilencer (Terminator)
. . Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd
. Paladin (Psilencer): Psilencer (Terminator)
. . Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd
. Paragon: Storm Bolter
. . Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd

Venerable Dreadnought [9 PL, 145pts]: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon

++ Total: [121 PL, 1,500pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Drop 1 strike squad to pass out hammers, falchions and a gun on the GMDK if that is how you want to roll. I agree though, more strikes are more better 😁.

#10
Waking Dreamer

Waking Dreamer

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 939 posts
  • Faction: Grey Knights

At 3 attacks or more per model (that's on the charge: PA Justicars and even Strikes with +1A banner), will do better at significant threats. 4A Falchions will only be better than 3A Halberds against T3, T6 and T7. Halberds are better against T4 (Primaris / Terminators), T5 (Custodes / Death Guard / Aggressors / SM Bikers)  and T8 (Imperial Knights / Repulsors / Landraiders etc.), you dont even have to rely on Hammer Hand - and can otherwise dish-out the 2MW smite instead.


Edited by Waking Dreamer, 26 January 2020 - 05:27 AM.

  • Corvus Fortis likes this
BJyntGN.pngOOq4org.png

#11
Seizeman

Seizeman

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 423 posts

On strikes, halberds only do better than falchions against R8. Falchions are the same against R5, slightly better against R4, and 50% better against R 3, 6, 7. The difference is too massive to not spend that extra point. It's just 20-30 points total (nowhere near close to a full unit) for an enormous buff, and you should pay it unless you expect your strikes to never fight in melee.

 

On paladins, halberds do a little bit better (about 7%) against R4, significantly better against R5 and significantly worse against R 3, 6, 7. If paladins have hammerhand active, falchions become just as good as halberds against R4 and R5, while being a lot better against 3, 6, 7, only being worse against R8. You could argue in favor of halberds if you think you will encounter more R5 than R3, 6 and 7 combined AND you expect your hammerhand to fail or be denied. In this case, the point argument makes no sense, since you would just be saving 6-8 points in a unit that already costs more than 300.

 

On the tide issue, there's hardly a point in using convergence unless you desing your whole army around it, in which case you lose a lot of versatility, CP  and the use of tide of escalation and tide of shadows, which is by far the most important one for us. An army wide -1 to hit and +1 to save is key to surviving. In you army, escalation would do a lot more damage than convergence, at least 7-8 extra wounds asuming your characters dont want to cast smite.

 

It's very important to take into acount that every time you use escalation, you get to use it twice for the same cost. If the opponent goes first, you can start in shadows, switch to escalation on turn 2 and then switch again to shadows (or wathever you want) in turn 3 after you smite, giving you a double tide turn 3, which is hugely powerful. Similarly, if you go first, you can start in escalation, smite your enemy thanks yo your brother captain, and then change to tide of shadows before the opponent's first turn, again giving you a double tide turn, that can be followed, if wanted, with another double tide on turn 3, so you have 2/3 turns of shadows protection and 3/3 turns of full smites, and that's quite brutal. This does not work if you plan on using  convergence, since you will want to use it turn 1 or 2, and ideally every turn after that. The best part is that escalation does not ask you to build your army in any particular way, just to have a brother captain (and you can make it work even without him.

 

About GMDKS dying, yes, they attract a lot of fire, but with tide of shadows they have 1+ save and -1 to hit, so they are a lot more durable. I would give them at least the psycannon. Not giving them the psilencer seems reasonable if you want to save the points.

 

Autocannons on dreads are no longer index. They got updated with the "legends" rules along with the other "old" dread weapon choices, and their point cost got reduced to 20, so it's 125 for a rifleman venerable, which I think is very efficient now.



#12
Tralador

Tralador

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 48 posts
Yeah but most tourneys are already banning legends content so /shrug.

Depending on your list for 2k you can get up to 70+ PAGK, that’s a lot of points if everyone gets falchions /shrug.

#13
Waking Dreamer

Waking Dreamer

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 939 posts
  • Faction: Grey Knights

Depending on your list for 2k you can get up to 70+ PAGK, that’s a lot of points if everyone gets falchions /shrug.

 

PA Justicars don't need the Falchions on the charge / got charged.

 

Paladins with base 3A definitely don't need it unless you want them dedicated chaff killers in melee (will you ever make your paladins points worth back)?

 

Yeah, you can save points for an extra hammer for a HQ, or a couple special weapons depending on the list.


  • Corvus Fortis likes this
BJyntGN.pngOOq4org.png

#14
Skywrath

Skywrath

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,024 posts
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Faction: Grey Knights, Dark Angels

Reviewing this information now, more questions to come after I process this. 


7DtmK1a.pnge2ZWJbt.pngt44uaS0.pngIJKynoL.pngtFMKXdu.pngAhRNilX.png

#15
Skywrath

Skywrath

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,024 posts
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Faction: Grey Knights, Dark Angels
Questions:
 
@Seizeman
 
1. Double Dreadnoughts are something to consider all-right. Working on an updated list now.
2. I would still stick to Halbeards just for the "appearance" and theme of GK. I always had a thing for spears.
3. What about building Paladins as melee focused? Thunder hammers, etc?
4. Can you equip a DreadKnight with both a sword and a psycannon? The idea I have is to use them as meatshields.
5. Character-wise, I would consider getting Voldus, and probably will end up getting him. Would that be good enough to use said discipline? Also what is the dominus discipline?
6. The other notable thing I heard about GK powers is gate of infinity. If I use that strategem and equip the dreadknights as a melee unit (with swords), could you see that working?
7. Will probably get both Drago and Voldus together. Problem is I already built Kaldor, and I am set on him. 
8. Explanation of Fury of Deimos relic?
9. Aesthetically speaking, I balk a bit on the Strike Squad compared to GK terminators. But I will use both elements of those. See updated list.
10. Understood about the terminator box. May I know more about the maths you provided in your explanation?
 
@Tralador
 
1. Librarian and chaplain is also something to consider.
2. Thoughts about updated list?
 
@Waking Dreamer
 
1. What special weapons would you recommend?
 
Changes to the list. I mostly adopted the common ground between those three lists and added some personal touches to those. For one, I added two venerable dreadnoughts in there, because I don't think I have enough firepower. For that reason I removed 3 strike squads in favor of that. I replaced the all justicar's weapons with thunder-hammers to give them more oomph. Combined with hammerhand, it should be a reasonable weapon choice, hitting at strength (8?). Discarded Voldus in favor of Drago, as again I am rather firm on him. Equipped both dreadknights with psycannons and a nemesis greatsword. Both of them have Gate of Infinity, making them a teleporting menace on the battlefield. Draigo assumes a more supportive role with those two dreadknights and hammerhand to ensure they take care of.. anything that moves really. As always, open to alterations. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Proposed Updated List 
 
  • Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [130 PL, 1,631pts]
    • HQ [40 PL, 568pts]
      • Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight [14 PL, 194pts]

        Selections: Dreadfist [10pts], Gate of Infinity, Heavy Psycannon [24pts], Nemesis Greatsword [10pts]

      • Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight [14 PL, 194pts]

        Selections: Dreadfist [10pts], Gate of Infinity, Heavy Psycannon [24pts], Nemesis Greatsword [10pts]

      • Lord Kaldor Draigo [12 PL, 180pts]

        Selections: 1: Daemon Slayer, Astral Aim, Hammerhand, Warlord

    • Troops [35 PL, 346pts]
      • Strike Squad [7 PL, 97pts]
        • 4x Grey Knight (Sword) [68pts]

          Selections: 4x Nemesis Force Sword [4pts], 4x Storm Bolter [8pts]

        • Grey Knight Justicar [29pts]

          Selections: Storm bolter [2pts]

          • Nemesis Daemon Hammer [13pts]

            Selections: Nemesis Daemon Hammer [13pts]

      • Strike Squad [14 PL, 135pts]
        • 5x Grey Knight (Halberd) [85pts]

          Selections: 5x Nemesis Force Halberd [5pts], 5x Storm Bolter [10pts]

        • Grey Knight (Psycannon) [21pts]

          Selections: Psycannon [7pts]

        • Grey Knight Justicar [29pts]

          Selections: Storm bolter [2pts]

          • Nemesis Daemon Hammer [13pts]

            Selections: Nemesis Daemon Hammer [13pts]

      • Strike Squad [14 PL, 114pts]
        • 5x Grey Knight (Halberd) [85pts]

          Selections: 5x Nemesis Force Halberd [5pts], 5x Storm Bolter [10pts]

        • Grey Knight Justicar [29pts]

          Selections: Storm bolter [2pts]

          • Nemesis Daemon Hammer [13pts]

            Selections: Nemesis Daemon Hammer [13pts]

    • Elites [55 PL, 717pts]
      • Apothecary [5 PL, 88pts]
        • Nemesis Daemon Hammer [13pts]

          Selections: Nemesis Daemon Hammer [13pts]

      • Paladin Squad [32 PL, 371pts]
        • 5x Paladin (Halberd) [220pts]

          Selections: 5x Nemesis Force Halberd [5pts], 5x Storm Bolter [10pts]

        • Paladin (Psilencer) [46pts]

          Selections: Psilencer (Terminator) [4pts]

          • Nemesis Force Halberd [1pts]

            Selections: Nemesis Force Halberd [1pts]

        • Paladin (Psycannon) [49pts]

          Selections: Psycannon (Terminator) [7pts]

          • Nemesis Force Halberd [1pts]

            Selections: Nemesis Force Halberd [1pts]

        • Paragon [56pts]

          Selections: Storm Bolter [2pts]

          • Nemesis Daemon Hammer [13pts]

            Selections: Nemesis Daemon Hammer [13pts]

      • Venerable Dreadnought [9 PL, 129pts]

        Selections: Assault cannon [22pts]

        • Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter [22pts]

          Selections: Storm bolter [2pts]

      • Venerable Dreadnought [9 PL, 129pts]

        Selections: Assault cannon [22pts]

        • Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter [22pts]

          Selections: Storm bolter [2pts]

 


Edited by Skywrath, 26 January 2020 - 02:41 PM.

7DtmK1a.pnge2ZWJbt.pngt44uaS0.pngIJKynoL.pngtFMKXdu.pngAhRNilX.png

#16
Seizeman

Seizeman

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 423 posts

Yes, halberds look a lot better. Luckily, leagues and tournaments in my area allow units to be equipped however they want, regardless of what the models  show, as longs as it's  not confusing, so I don't have that problem (I can just say "all nemesis weapons are falchions"). 

 

Draigo is an amazing model and it really asks to be played, it's understandable that you want to play it. Luckily, while maybe not optimal, he's still pretty good, and you can make it work. Your psychic phase will just be a little less reliable, but it's no so big of a deal.

 

Paladins are already melee focused, there's no other way to build them. The problem with hammers (compared to falchions) is that you lose an attack and -1 to hit, going from 3+ to 4+, and they are not cheap. Hammer on the paragon is great, because of his improved WS, but a hammer on a terminator, while about twice as good agains armor, it's just as good against regular infantry, and worse than falchions against weak infantry (R3, 4+ save or worse). Also, falchions benefit more from Draigo's aura and hammerhand. Besides, paladins are already brutal in combat, and the extra damage from the hammer is not that useful if you overkill your target anyway, you are just adding points on an already expensive unit. One or two extra hammers (appart from the paragon's one) are fine to add a little more punch against tough opponents, but any more than that it's not worth it (also remember that you already have a ton of hammers on your characters, you risk being too weak against hordes if you overload on those). Personally, I use 2 hammers (paragon and one more) in my unit of 8 paladins.

 

Dreadknights must have 2 melee weapons (one of them being a fist) and up to 2 ranged weapons, they don't conflict with each other (the guns are placed on their "forearms").

 

The dominus discipline is the new discipline added with the ritual of the damned book. It contains 6 new powers and they can only be taken by characters (and they can't mix disciplines).  From those six powers, 3 are pretty much mandatory, anoter one is extremely desirable (absolutely necessary I'd say), one is cool and powerful but very situational and expensive, and the last one is quite useless. That means you want at least 4 psychic power slots  among characters. I don't count GMNDKS in this regard, because they need sanctuary and are, as you said, meatshields, so you can't rely on them being alive and well positioned as much as you can on a regular character. Voldus is great to get to that because he can have and cast 3 powers, which added to the one provided by a brother captain (which you want to play anyway) already gets you to the desired number. The apothecary can pick a second copy of the most important one in case one of your characters dies, or picks the 5th one if the situation requires it. In your case, Draigo only has two powers, so you don't have any ensurance in case on of your  characters dies.

 

Yes, gate of infinity is an essential part of our kit. it's not a stratagem but a psychic power. Trying to rush a GMNDK into the enemy by using gate is generally not advisable. Strategically, since grey knights are slow and close ranged, and they have so many auras, etc that help each other, they work better by keeping most of your army ( paladins and characters at least) as a group, controlling the middle of the board, so you force the opponent to either fight you or give up objectives. By sending a GMND too far forward, you are isolating him from the rest of the army. The opponent will be able to shoot him without getting close to your main force, cast on him outside of deny range, or assault him without fear of a countercharge from your other units, so they can basically kill him for free. Besides, GoI places you 9'' away from the enemy, so he will fail his charge in most cases anyway, dying without having done any significant damage. Gate is best used to reposition a unit so it compliments the possition of your main force, for example, you can shift one unit from one of your flanks to the opposite one, send a unit that's too damaged to fight properly to a back objective or out of LOS so they don't die or send a backline unit to reinforce the front, send a strike to shoot down a vulnerable and isolated unit so the enemy has to divert significan forces to deal with them, etc, etc.

 

Fury of deimos improves a storm bolter, giving it 6 s5, ap -1 shots at long range. It's quite versatile and work well with the brother captain because he's more of a support character, and you basically get it for free. There are a couple of new relics that are quite decent, but they only work on librarians, and you don't really want librarians.

 

About the math, I'd need you to be more specific.


  • Skywrath likes this

#17
Tralador

Tralador

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 48 posts
Melee dreadnoughts are not a thing we need. The typical grey Knight use of a dread is as an astral aim TLLC/ML platform.

I will be running both a chaplain and a librarian, but at 1500 pts running draigo, paladins, 3”2 dreadnoughts, and 2 dreadknight, something has to give points wise.

1 Dreadnought with guns and try to squeeze in a librarian for your Dominus powers. Also, try to squeeze out another strike and run psilencers instead. It is counterintuitive, but they are just better. You can find the math in various forums.

#18
Skywrath

Skywrath

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,024 posts
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Faction: Grey Knights, Dark Angels

@ Tralador

 

1. The melee dreadnoughts were never considered, I was referring to the paladin squad.

2. Can't said Dreadnought (or for that matter Dreadknights) be used to manifest dominus powers? And if so, what ones?

3. Would you be able to comment on the efficacy of Venerable Dreadnoughts vs Doomglaive ones?

4. What loud-out of dreadnoughts should I go for?

 

@ Seizeman

 

1.  Only the sergeants in all my squads will have thunder hammers. The rest are halberds, however, I may toy with falchions in one of my strike squads. Bear in mind, that Kaldor will have hammerhand, so the hit on those weapons (if it goes off admittedly), would be nullified on the normal wound roll. 

2.  Dreadknights - So they can be equipped with one sword/one fist only (as an example)? So they can only be purely melee or ranged?

3.  What are the mandatory Dominus powers you mentioned?

4.  The math calculations you provided to work out whether halberds or falchions are better, on paper anyway. 

 

Again, extremely sorry for all those questions, but the bigger picture I get, the more accurate the outcome will be. 


7DtmK1a.pnge2ZWJbt.pngt44uaS0.pngIJKynoL.pngtFMKXdu.pngAhRNilX.png

#19
Waking Dreamer

Waking Dreamer

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 939 posts
  • Faction: Grey Knights
If you have the points aim for psycannons first. Don't be swayed by those pushing the mathhammer that psilencers are more cost-efficient and so never take psycannons. While this is technically true - they won't ever become reliable anti-armour shooting unless you spend at least 2CP in the Convergence Tide (and even then they're only ever okaish in that role).

If you're shooting at the second or third Imperial Knight / heavy tank of you opponent's army, and you have less than half / none of your CP left to spare - I'd rather have a handful of psycannons still shooting at S8 AP-1 2 damage...than some more psilencers shooting at S5 AP0 d3+1 damage.

If you need to shoot fodder....that's what the storm bolters are for.
BJyntGN.pngOOq4org.png

#20
Skywrath

Skywrath

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,024 posts
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Faction: Grey Knights, Dark Angels

List locked in, thank you for your input. 

 

Final question: Psycannon or psilencers? Leaning Psycannons.


7DtmK1a.pnge2ZWJbt.pngt44uaS0.pngIJKynoL.pngtFMKXdu.pngAhRNilX.png

#21
Corvus Fortis

Corvus Fortis

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 746 posts
Final question: Psycannon or psilencers? Leaning Psycannons.

 

 

Whatever you want. You are not shooting yourself in leg, if you chose either. If you have spare points, go for Psycannons, if not, Psilencers are ok too.



#22
Waking Dreamer

Waking Dreamer

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 939 posts
  • Faction: Grey Knights

Final question: Psycannon or psilencers? Leaning Psycannons.

 

As long as you are in ToC,  psycannons will out-damage stormbolters and psilencers without any extra buff / CP spending against these types of units:

- T6 Sv2+ (Custodes Jetbikes)

- T7 Sv3+ (Stormravens, Predator Tanks, Venerable / Contemptor / Redemptor Dreads)

- T7 Sv2+ (Riptides / Y'vahras)

- T8 Sv2+ (Leviathan Dreads, Landraiders)

 

Against:

- T8 Sv3+ (imperial Knights, Leman Russ tanks)

^ They equal the damage output with psilencers, if you use PO on top of ToC, psycannons pull ahead once again. 

 

But as stated, ToC really makes psycannons, psilencer and Psy-ammo SB that much better than before.


BJyntGN.pngOOq4org.png

#23
Skywrath

Skywrath

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,024 posts
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Faction: Grey Knights, Dark Angels

Psycannon it is. See you on the Battlefield, brothers.


7DtmK1a.pnge2ZWJbt.pngt44uaS0.pngIJKynoL.pngtFMKXdu.pngAhRNilX.png

#24
Corvus Fortis

Corvus Fortis

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 746 posts

And may the Emperor be with you!


  • Skywrath likes this




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users