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IA: The Guardian Host WIP v0.2.1


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#26
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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To continue on from what Lunkhead said above, the difference is in execution. When drawing from a source to influence your chapter, there's a fair divide between being 'influenced' by the material and copying wholesale bits of lore and throwing it into your chapter.

 

As a matter of fact most of GW's original legions are really good examples on how not to show influence. Some of them get away with it more these days through some work and better writers to expand upon them (such as the Salamanders and White Scars, though BL is inconsistent at best), it's not all been fixed. the Space Wolves and Raven Guard were and are still essentially power-armoured versions of their inspiration, Viking werewolf-marines and Poe-Marines respectively. Then you've got the Mongol-Marines in the White Scars, the Roman Marines for the Ultramarines. Hell even newer chapters like the Minotaurs and the Iron Snakes are really on the nose in where they draw their cultural inspiration from.

 

Now I'll let it be said it's not all bad. You can have a solid influence and wear it on your sleeve, that's no real issue, so long as you're not constantly beating the reader over the head with either references to the material or stretching 40k lore to shoe-horn in your concept.

 

What you're looking to do here is not necessarily subtle. Astartes aren't subtle and neither are their chapter cultures and societies.

 

What takes you away from all this is the same thing in any good story, suspension of disbelief. You lay it on just thick enough to differentiate your 8 foot, angry walking tanks from the other guys, while also having the reader believe they fit within the 40k universe as a whole.

 

Funnily enough, GW being so unbelievably heavy handed with the original legions means you've got a hell of a lot more room to work with here in that regard.

 

 

Now, to bring this into direct relevance to you, there are a couple of things.

 

One- your references to what is at the moment a piece of iconic gaming pop-culture means you actually have far less wiggle room for suspension of disbelief, so I'd lighten the direct references like 'The Bastion'. It doesn't have to be a sphere it doesn't have to operate in even remotely the same way, people will still get the inspiration if you word it right.

 

Secondly am really unsure as to why you'd waste the fighting potential of an entire chapter of Space Marines to 'study' an alien artifact. Leave that to the AdMech and Inquisition sponsored acolytes. However if they were there to secure the region and project that stabilizing presence to reduce potential risk to the artifact and where it's situated? Absolutely.


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The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#27
The 13th Goat

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The Bastion: Directly in the center of the planet Gaia is an ancient and mysterious machine known as the The Bastion, a great orb with a single point of entry. The mysterious structure appears to be of ancient Eldar construction as the interior is dotted with soul stone that appear to be inert. The Guardian Host were task by the inquisitor to study and understand this ancient relic that they believe dates from the fall of the Eldar empire. It is uncertain exactly how the The Bastion came to be embedded within the planet's core although it is believed that the Eldar put it there when the humans were still in a tribal state. Any humans that come into contact with the device gain the unique ability to generate wraithbone from their own bodies, but it comes at a significant cost as those who have used this power have gone into a comatose state as their bodies are transformed into inert wraithbone statues. As the side effects have proven fatal to the people of Gaia, the inquisition and the Astartes of the Guardian Host have quarantined the device pending further investigation and study, the Astartes becoming its lone security as they are wholly unaffected by the device's properties.

 

 

Not to be that guy, and wholly appreciating it can be chalked up to "space magic", but wouldn't sticking this artefact in a planets core make it kinda completely inaccessible? How would anyone get there? What impact would having no molten core have on the planets magnetic field/gravity? Or if it does have a Molten Core, how on earth do you chart a path to the artefact through crushing pressures and temperatures as hot as the surface of a star? 

 

I'd maybe lift it a bit, if only because it's depth doesn't really change anything.

 

Liking the changes so far, will keep analysing when i get more time.


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#28
Brother Lunkhead

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Very good points from Brother Greyyes.gif

 

 

Posted Yesterday, 10:12 PM

 

Funnily enough, GW being so unbelievably heavy handed with the original legions means you've got a hell of a lot more room to work with here in that regard.

 

Ain't that the truthrolleyesclean.gif I really love the completely unsubtle air of the RT 40K days, but I also enjoy the attempt of the current GW crew to reign it in a bit and make the lore a little more serious. I suppose the challenge with introducing another universe into 40k lore is to strike a balance, or even to decide not to strike a balance. Both ways are equally challenging if you want to tell a proper story. Those mead swilling, brawling space Vikings are a prime example. William King's old Ragnar series is a great example of the old school Space Wolves, and it's still a great read. The more thoughtful story telling of Abnett, Dembski-Bowden, Wraight give more depth to the Sons of Fenris. Yet, all are good reads. What makes the old stuff still work for me is that heavy-handed though the references may have been, they weren't simply a cut and paste job. Vikings were made relevant to the 40Kverse by the early writers. Same goes for Raven Guard, and White Scars. The last words heard from Corax, "never more" still makes me smile and not roll my eyes.

 

One- your references to what is at the moment a piece of iconic gaming pop-culture means you actually have far less wiggle room for suspension of disbelief, so I'd lighten the direct references like 'The Bastion'. It doesn't have to be a sphere it doesn't have to operate in even remotely the same way, people will still get the inspiration if you word it right.

 

..... or make it more relevent and not just a great big inaccessible MacGuffin. I think you need to do a little bit more with the Bastion than what you've got. From my point of view it still has a little too much elf magic and not enough mystery and menace. And speaking of inaccessible .......

 

 

Posted Today, 06:00 AM

 

Not to be that guy, and wholly appreciating it can be chalked up to "space magic", but wouldn't sticking this artefact in a planets core make it kinda completely inaccessible? How would anyone get there? What impact would having no molten core have on the planets magnetic field/gravity? Or if it does have a Molten Core, how on earth do you chart a path to the artefact through crushing pressures and temperatures as hot as the surface of a star? 

 

Okay..... I'll be that guymsn-wink.gif Putting the artifact in the planet's core is imo a little too dramatic and it creates unnecessary problems, such as how did it get discovered in the first place? What made it so vital that (no doubt) vast resources were spent to get to it? Perhaps it was accessed through a webway gate and vast resources weren't spent to access it. Which would beg the question, why did the Eldar put the thing at the center of the planet and leave the front door open?

 

….and back to Brother Grey:

 

Secondly am really unsure as to why you'd waste the fighting potential of an entire chapter of Space Marines to 'study' an alien artifact. Leave that to the AdMech and Inquisition sponsored acolytes. However if they were there to secure the region and project that stabilizing presence to reduce potential risk to the artifact and where it's situated? Absolutely.

 

I think you could do both. Remember Barabas Dantioch and Pharos? I think a few very talented Techmarines could do the job, backed up by a whole Space Marine Chapter to keep the riff raff away.


Edited by Brother Lunkhead, 01 February 2020 - 03:09 AM.

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#29
Marshal van Trapp

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I do love this extra discussion and I'm happy you guys are jumping onboard to help me iron it out, as far as the research of the artefact, only the Librarius and Techmarines ARE responsible for that, the rest of the chapter is focused on protection of both the citizens of Gaia and the artefact, as well as the surrounding planets and moons. I've seen the Inquisition put a chapter in charge of LESS than that for much weaker reasons. That's why I made it a mandate from the high lords and gulliman.

As for the location of the bastion, perhaps it would make more sense to put it beneath the Last City, would make a good reason for why it was built there and also why people flock to that location.

I dont think I'm being too heavy handed with Destiny lore, originally I was going to try and work in a way for the 3 major races to "exist" but I dropped that really quick because it didnt make any sense.

With that I welcome any other criticism as always, it helps the creative process afterall

#30
Marshal van Trapp

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Happy Valentine's Day Guardians!

Added a bit more lore and fixed up a bunch of the typos so hopefully it flows better not, lemme know if you guys see anything that needs fixing!
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