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Concept Planning: "Wayward Sons"


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#1
The 13th Goat

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Hi guys,

 

It has been..... a LOOOONNNNGGG time since I've walked the B&C boards. But that all too familiar tick of Warhammer 40'000 has been worming its way in the background of my mind. SSSOOOOOO ahead of an actual return to the modelling, thought i might try to wet my appetite with a little bit of Fluff sculpting.

 

 

The Concept

The idea for the chapter is one that is at odds with it's heritage. The "Wayword Sons" is a place holder name.

 

Basically, the chapter were to be formed from Iron Hands Gene Seed, but in there early years while they were "seconding" their 1st founding cousins they became increasingly vocal that the IH were too extreme in their approach, and after almost coming too blows both chapters request all future gene seed is taken from an alternative stock (say, Ultramarines). 

 

The split would have a number of repercussions; the "Sons" chapter itself would have conflicted thoughts on what happened, some feeling the IH are their proper successors, while others draw from their new heritage. IH geneseed is still present in the chapter due to the existing members geneseed still being in rotation with new recruits generations down the line.

 

 

I will be looking to focus on how that initial division has defined the chapter.

 

 

Conceptually, has this been done before? Do you guys see any issues with this?

 

Name wise i think i will have a title and heraldry change, their original name being the "Gorgan's Claws".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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‘I’d kill you, of course. What kind of question is that? But let’s hope we don't reach that point. Emotions are running high, and my spear is all the way over there.’
Sevetar, First Captain Of The Night Lords

#2
Brother Lunkhead

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Greetings Brother and welcome to the Liberyes.gif

 

There have been other Liber chapters that have challenged Iron Hands philosophy on one point or another, but all are different. So, I say, stay the coursethumbsup.gif

 

While "Wayward Sons" may not be a good chapter name, it's a good concept to go with. I like what you've started and look forward to seeing more.


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#3
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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In the original draft of my Blazing Sons they were Iron Hands descendants who broke ranks with their Iron Hands training cadre to save the people of what would become their homeworld.

 

I was a bit ham-handed in my approach but it was discussed plenty at the time, because it was something that needed to be properly explored. I.E we're writing about post-human killing machines that are psycho-indoctrinated to fight and kill at the very least, and are only given more depth of soul by whatever practices their chapter subscribe to, such as the Blood Angels pursuit of artistry or the Salamanders dedication to the mortals on their homeworld and self-sacrificial promethian cult.

 

I think it is a great way to create depth and illustrate a core character of your chapter, it just needs to be well thought through. You have to provide context for the growing gulf of belief between the two groups, especially if they're essentially 'Iron Hands 2.0' before they've even been sent off on their own, given they'd simply be indoctrinated the same as standard IH.

 

I'd look to the Clan Companies. Which one would suit this narrative best as say, the training cadre? Either they're more hard-line than the rest (pre-Moirae Schism?) or their trainers are particularly outspoken such as the new Malkaan Feirros.

 

Pre-Moirae Schism could be interesting. Your chapter is shown to go it's own way, only for the IH to have the karma-train hit them full-ball, with your chapter unknowingly having dodged a bullet. This could also lead to the two chapters repairing relations later down the line.

 

It also allows you to skip having to work in a new gene-seed entirely.


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The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#4
The 13th Goat

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Hi Guys, thanks for the input.

 

Ydalir, your post in particular is super helpful. Hope your safe from the fires, bud!

 

By no means do i want to pilfer anyone else's idea, but you have given me some great things to work with.

 

With regards to Moirae Schism, I think I'm gonna go post Schism. Thinking about what happened there, I feel it has more to offer retrospectively to my Chapter's history.

 

So far I have the following thought out:

 

 

 

A 22nd Founding chapter, due to the latent concerns over some of the Iron Hands handling of the Moirae Schism and potential recruitment practice concerns it raised, the High Lords elect to pull recruits from a series of Ultramar recruitment worlds and em-bide them with Iron Hands Gene seed. Leadership was also drawn from more moderate successor chapters. During the course of their training cadre alongside Clan Morragul tensions would rise; many within the Chapter came to believe that the Iron Hands approach was to excessive and led to needless losses of imperial life, while the Iron Hands viewed the successor as not true sons of the Gorgon and "drenched in the ideals of Ultramar". The situation would come to a head, with only last minute parlay's between the leadership of both groups averting battle between the two. 

 

Both the Iron Hands and the Chapter would subsequently request future gene seed be drawn from another source (likely Ultramarine), a request that was ultimately accepted by as way peace keeping between chapters. The Chapter itself would become a divided house, with more than a few warriors dismayed at the schism that had formed between themselves and their original founding Chapter. This divided nature, and the issue of Iron Hands Gene seed still in the circulation within the chapter, would continue to be issue for the chapter until its near annihilation during the formation of the great rift.    

 

 

Will flesh it out more, but that's part of what I have so far.


‘I’d kill you, of course. What kind of question is that? But let’s hope we don't reach that point. Emotions are running high, and my spear is all the way over there.’
Sevetar, First Captain Of The Night Lords

#5
The 13th Goat

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Also have a chapter design:

 

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‘I’d kill you, of course. What kind of question is that? But let’s hope we don't reach that point. Emotions are running high, and my spear is all the way over there.’
Sevetar, First Captain Of The Night Lords

#6
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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I like the colour scheme, though if I was to change only one thing it'd be the helmet colour. I'd pick one colour for the helmet for standard battle brothers. Not only would painting it be a hassle over a whole force, but as you go up in rank the scheme may become busier and busier depending on what other wargear or embellishments are added.

 

That said I could be worrying about something that's inconsequential if you're not going to differentiate rank by their helmets, it's just the most common way.

 

If I was to pick a colour for the helmet I'd go with the yellow. That said, I like the colours and how they're integrated, though I think having almost every accent and relief part of the armour (belt, elbow cover, etc) be in the yellow to over-do it. I think with bright and/or strong contrasting colours less is more. Having a lot of the 'pop' colour everywhere on the armour somehow lessons it's positive appearance.

 

Both the Iron Hands and the Chapter would subsequently request future gene seed be drawn from another source (likely Ultramarine), a request that was ultimately accepted by as way peace keeping between chapters. The Chapter itself would become a divided house, with more than a few warriors dismayed at the schism that had formed between themselves and their original founding Chapter. This divided nature, and the issue of Iron Hands Gene seed still in the circulation within the chapter, would continue to be issue for the chapter until its near annihilation during the formation of the great rift.    

 

 

 

Can I ask why you want to include another geneseed here? I don't honestly understand why, considering you could just as easily have them venerate their gene-father and disagree with the Iron Hands in general. Hell, there are some chapters that knowingly venerate a primarch that isn't their own because they are more ideologically predisposed to their teachings.

 

What I want to know is your reasoning, and what it adds to the chapter as to my mind all it does is over-complicate something that can be dealt with without it's inclusion. What does it add to the story?


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The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#7
The 13th Goat

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Can I ask why you want to include another geneseed here? I don't honestly understand why, considering you could just as easily have them venerate their gene-father and disagree with the Iron Hands in general. Hell, there are some chapters that knowingly venerate a primarch that isn't their own because they are more ideologically predisposed to their teachings.

 

What I want to know is your reasoning, and what it adds to the chapter as to my mind all it does is over-complicate something that can be dealt with without it's inclusion. What does it add to the story?

 

 

The gene seed switch is what i like to think is the USP for this chapter; unlike the other chapters that split from the fold, the circumstances in this situation felt significant enough for this unusual request to be asked and indeed granted. A lot of the chapter's dynamic thereafter is informed by this act. Naturally in the IA proper i will flesh this out, but the current reasoning for the three deciding bodies is thus:

 

Iron Hands: Angry at the behaviour of the chapter, the "foreign leadership" and ideals, and what they considered as the meddling of  Administratum in the formation of this successor, they do not treat the chapter as true sons of the Gorgon. They believe the chapter was created with external aspirants and leadership as a response to concerns about the Moirae Schism and trust between the High Lords and the Sons Of Manus. This lack of trust was seen as an affront to their honour. With support from a number of IH successor chapters, they request the gene seed stock be changed, threatening to refuse Gene seed tithes until the mater is resolved.

 

The Chapter: While less enamoured with the idea, the chapter look at it from a practical stand point. The Iron Hands and their successors view them as pariahs, refuse to share warzones or access to relics of the Legion. The Iron Hands approach to warfare and almost fanatical hatred of weakness is at odds with the chapter's more "protect & serve" nature cultivated by the leadership and heritage of their recruits. This animosity is damaging to the moral of the young chapter, many who are struggling to balance their genetic heritage to the Iron Hands with their cultural heritage to Ultramar. Seeing how serious the situation is becoming between the Administratum and the Iron Hands, the chapter side with the Iron Hands plan as the most practical solution to the problem.

 

The Administratum/ High Lords: The concept of using gene seed from one legion and meshing it so overtly with the sensibilities of another to create a more manageable successor with less founding ties was one that had earned considerably rebuke from many sectors, not least senior Astartes Chapter Masters that viewed such action as disrespectful of the Primarchs teachings. Despite this, a core element of the Administratum pushed the idea through. With the resulting conflict, the Administratum begrudgingly acquiesced to the Chapters' demands and switched the gene stock to the more suitable Ultramarine stock.

 

 

Does that kind of explain it?    


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‘I’d kill you, of course. What kind of question is that? But let’s hope we don't reach that point. Emotions are running high, and my spear is all the way over there.’
Sevetar, First Captain Of The Night Lords

#8
Brother Lunkhead

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Posted Today, 05:23 AM

 

Does that kind of explain it?    

 

Yes, I think it doesyes.gif Your explanation provides the foundation for a very interesting narrative.

 

 

Posted Yesterday, 03:26 PM

 

I like the colour scheme, though if I was to change only one thing it'd be the helmet colour. I'd pick one colour for the helmet for standard battle brothers. Not only would painting it be a hassle over a whole force, but as you go up in rank the scheme may become busier and busier depending on what other wargear or embellishments are added.

 

I concurthumbsup.gif  Colors and hues work well together and provide nice balance and contrast. I also thing the helmet should be solid yellow for the reasons Brother Grey mentioned.

 

This looks very good and I look forward to seeing more.


Edited by Brother Lunkhead, 25 January 2020 - 04:59 PM.

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#9
The 13th Goat

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Posted Yesterday, 03:26 PM

 

I like the colour scheme, though if I was to change only one thing it'd be the helmet colour. I'd pick one colour for the helmet for standard battle brothers. Not only would painting it be a hassle over a whole force, but as you go up in rank the scheme may become busier and busier depending on what other wargear or embellishments are added.

 

I concurthumbsup.gif  Colors and hues work well together and provide nice balance and contrast. I also thing the helmet should be solid yellow for the reasons Brother Grey mentioned.

 

This looks very good and I look forward to seeing more.

 

 

Thanks for your kind words guys. Colour wise that yellow is actually supposed to be gold, with the main body grey. I'm also gonna keep the red face plates; I personally prefer face plate colouration aesthetically, and i even have some rough fluff i could use to justify it (A possible speech given by the first Chapter Master to the IH Captain during the schism between the two).

 

I have a few more Fluff nuggets I'd like your steer on:

 

Original chapter name: Gorgons Exemplar (a name selected by the High Lords and considered antagonistic by the Iron Hands)

New Chapter Name: Sentinels Invictus

Organisation: The Chapter was split is two; 5 companies based around the home worlds systems, 5 fleet based and further afield. The roaming side still desire to be Iron Hands sons, and are more aggressive. The Home world based warriors follow the new chapter doctrines. Both have their own recruitment processes and Chapter "Masters". The two don't see eye to eye, but will come together when the situation demands. This situation has change with the destruction of the home world. Structure has now been reformed along more traditional lines. 

Home world: Pryus (Destroyed during the formation of the Great Rift). Moved to Argonis Prime. 


Edited by The 13th Goat, 30 January 2020 - 12:41 PM.

‘I’d kill you, of course. What kind of question is that? But let’s hope we don't reach that point. Emotions are running high, and my spear is all the way over there.’
Sevetar, First Captain Of The Night Lords




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