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Filling in Battalions Post Ritual of the Damned

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#1
Prot

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This is meant to focus on the troop aspect of the Battalion in the post RotD universe. Also I guess it's worth noting Cultists are back to be cheap. Useless perhaps, but still cheap. This is after CA19 where Tzaangors are double the cost.

 

So the problem I'm having is two fold: 

I'm trying not to make soup right now, in any way. The fun of trying all these cults is forcing us to make detachments. (This still frustrates me and I think GW got this wrong.) 

 

Inevitably in trying to make 2-3 detachments troops become a problem. We need some form of board control, but Cultists just disappear almost at will in this incredibly killy state of the game we're in. 

 

Tzaangors are okay. They have a role, but you want... probably a minimum of 20 (?) and now you're sitting at about 170 for a troop that can (at times) be just as easily erased. Now since CA19 the point drops put us at just under 90 points for a min squad of Rubrics. The problem here is a very small, and expensive 'screening' unit. 

 

Also against Grey Knights I can see how incredibly brutal and high damage they became over night. You are going to need a real sponge for smite in that case.

 

What are your thoughts on list building considering our HQ heavy core of choices? 


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#2
BoomWolf

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If you want some cheap screen and a large number of wounds while farming some CP-you can go worse than a whole bunch of brimestones and 2 daemon HQs

Its gonna cost a non-TS detachment though.

 

30 points per troop slot is nuts.

They don't do much, but when they do, its fun.

 

Also, a daemon detachment unlock possession that will punish the GK when he eventually perils.



#3
Prot

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That's a tempting idea, but I should have been more clear on why I'm asking if people are using Cultists, Tzaangors or Rubrics as troops....

 

Essentially I'm trying to make 3 Thousand Sons detachments so I can use 3 different cults. But in doing so, I'd like to keep 2 of them Battalions just for CP purposes. (again this all stems from the silliness of GW making these 'detachment cults'.) 


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#4
Heliomanes

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Good questions. For ease of play, and to free up points, I'm trying to survive with just one batallion (and SCD, and patrol). I've also noted that in tournament settings, my opponents have often maxed out on secondary points because it is quite easy to get rid of your troop choices when you try to keep them affordable and plentiful. So consider this an experiment. If I can get by with fewer cp, then I could possibly give up less secondary points and have more room for larger units and fun choices like my leviathan. Fingers crossed.



#5
Xisor

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For Rubricae, my gut for a while had been that this was somehow workable, regardless of everything else:

2*HQ
1*20 Rubric (Dark Matter, Webway, deploy right in their face)
2*5 R

2*HQ
3*5 R

With the intent that 4*5 of them would "team up" to really be 2*10, so tackling two "things". Maybe even in Rhinos. Or a Land Raider, heh.

That final 5 could be Tzaangors or Cultists too. A sort of cavity filler foam.

But the main thrust is the big 20 for oomf, the 4*5 twenty for going after two "things" (objectives, filling two small holes, psycho/i threat), and the remainder really just being a filler for the +3 or +4 on what you'd do alternatively.

Whether that actually makes much sense *today*, I haven't a clue.

But my dusty gut still says: "........"

Edited by Xisor, 23 January 2020 - 07:58 PM.


#6
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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If you want some cheap screen and a large number of wounds while farming some CP-you can go worse than a whole bunch of brimestones and 2 daemon HQs

Its gonna cost a non-TS detachment though.

 

30 points per troop slot is nuts.

They don't do much, but when they do, its fun.

 

Also, a daemon detachment unlock possession that will punish the GK when he eventually perils.

Daemonic Possession + Capricious Crest = Lulz for days.



#7
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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For Rubricae, my gut for a while had been that this was somehow workable, regardless of everything else:

2*HQ
1*20 Rubric (Dark Matter, Webway, deploy right in their face)
2*5 R

2*HQ
3*5 R

With the intent that 4*5 of them would "team up" to really be 2*10, so tackling two "things". Maybe even in Rhinos. Or a Land Raider, heh.

That final 5 could be Tzaangors or Cultists too. A sort of cavity filler foam.

But the main thrust is the big 20 for oomf, the 4*5 twenty for going after two "things" (objectives, filling two small holes, psycho/i threat), and the remainder really just being a filler for the +3 or +4 on what you'd do alternatively.

Whether that actually makes much sense *today*, I haven't a clue.

But my dusty gut still says: "........"

Pretty soon I'm going to try 4x5 Rubes piling out of a Storm Eagle, which then teleports back across the table thanks to Sorcerous Facade. Lots of mini-smites and interesting objective possibilities....



#8
Prot

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Good questions. For ease of play, and to free up points, I'm trying to survive with just one batallion (and SCD, and patrol). I've also noted that in tournament settings, my opponents have often maxed out on secondary points because it is quite easy to get rid of your troop choices when you try to keep them affordable and plentiful. So consider this an experiment. If I can get by with fewer cp, then I could possibly give up less secondary points and have more room for larger units and fun choices like my leviathan. Fingers crossed.

 

I'm not a big fan of ITC scenarios but I do play it for some tournaments and leading up to those events. And yes I can say from my last ITC GT with my Black Legion that anything above.... 2-3 units of Cultists just bleeds kill/kill more.

 

But even CA19 Maelstrom gives up 'kill anything' pretty darn easily. 

 

I would like to hear how you do with that little CP in effect.  

 

 

For Rubricae, my gut for a while had been that this was somehow workable, regardless of everything else:

2*HQ
1*20 Rubric (Dark Matter, Webway, deploy right in their face)
2*5 R

2*HQ
3*5 R

With the intent that 4*5 of them would "team up" to really be 2*10, so tackling two "things". Maybe even in Rhinos. Or a Land Raider, heh.

That final 5 could be Tzaangors or Cultists too. A sort of cavity filler foam.

But the main thrust is the big 20 for oomf, the 4*5 twenty for going after two "things" (objectives, filling two small holes, psycho/i threat), and the remainder really just being a filler for the +3 or +4 on what you'd do alternatively.

 

 

5 Tzaangors... I think you need 10. Which goes back to asking... is it even worth taking 10? You're at the cost of 2/3 of the Cultsts you'd need for your Batallion

 

Maybe at the end of the day only 1 or 2 Cults gets a lot of competitive play. I don't know, but it makes sense for some of them to be smaller Detachments... IE: Magic.

 

At least with Magic we could do a SMD with Magnus (which was what I was thinking of moving into to keep Magnus rolling.)

 

Something like Duplicity just screams for a bigger multi squad Battalion though. 

 

I just hate the idea of a 'feed' Battalion as I call them of Cultists. I just really have become sick of Tzaangors and am finding you need too many of them to make them valid.

 

At this point in 8th edition, the only valid configuration of Cultists I found was about 30 with Abaddon. (Fearless) With recycling (sometimes).  But with our new Strats, the almost constant pre game use of extra Warlord trait and Relic, it's getting tight. Especially considering our new Stratagems.


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#9
Zodd1888

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Prot, the reason why you can't find an answer is because there isn't one.

Our troops are unique in that they're expensive and generally not exceptional in any role. Daemons are most often used as troops for CP.

Mono sons feels gross bringing a minimum 300 point min battalion with cultists. Sure you've got Sorcerers, but cultists don't do anything in this army but die. Tzaangors are flavorful, but again die at slightly faster rates.

We're still missing something (auras, expanded legion trait, damage).

Cults are cool though:)
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#10
Skerr

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When i was trying double battalion i had 4 five man Rubrics in one (Cult of Time), and the other battalion (Cult of Duplicity) I wanted to have 3 SOTs with a Termie Sorcerer with Duplicity WLT and DP. Orginally I tried to fill this out with minimum Tzangoors but generally dont like running them in units smaller than 20.

This was too expensive so I tried cultists which were much more cost effective. Like goats I think cultists need to be 20+ and I guess I was just unwilling to pay the troop tax. At the same time I was thinking how my termis would benefit more than my Rubrics from Cult of Time power because of their 2 wounds.

At this point I decided on 1 battalion, keeping all Rubricae in the same detatchment and making the hard choice of Cult Duplicity. Cult of Magic in a Supreme command or patrol became my 2nd detatch.

I like the idea of a patrol for other cults (get that Crest!) as you can then pay a 1 unit tax and go 20 plus models either cultists or Tzangoors.

When I tried the Battalion i first tried 4 five man Rubric squads and 2 units of Tzangoors. But for like less than 10 points more I might as well get 2 more 5 man Rubric squads and use spawn for screens. I almost give my aspiring sorcerers warpflame pistols in five man squads in case they are charged. Overwatch then if still engaged in cc the next round, smite, pistol, forcestaff. I like this for objective campers.

Ultimately I am going with with either 3 ten man Rubrics or 1 twenty man and 2 five man Rubrics. Also SOTs. Either 2 five man or 1 ten man. Would like 3 five man but not sure I have the points.

Edited by Skerr, 24 January 2020 - 02:39 AM.


#11
Zodd1888

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So I've been fiddling with the numbers in my boredom and I keep coming back to the original question on the topic.

40 Cultists and 40 Rubrics as a base or I swap to 30 Rubrics, 30 Tzaangors, and 30 Cultists.

I've also been pondering if on the SOT focused lists how much I dislike what the effect is on list building. I find I have to ditch a squad of Rubrics and add a unit of Cultists at an extra 70ish points over the Rubrics.

I say "have to" because of the need for variety in strength of shots. 600 points in shots and 250 in goats is enough strength 4.




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