Possessed bomb again?

[mertbl]

Locally, we are trying to figure out why the possessed bomb has returned to prominence with chaos marine armies. What changed with the rules that its returned to play?

 

No one really plays chaos here but we are trying to get the community more involved in tournaments.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

The Word Bearers rules in Faith & Fury happened.

[mertbl]

The Word Bearers rules in Faith & Fury happened.

Oh? The ones I've seen are nurgle alpha legion.

[Doom Herald]

1) Point reduction in CA:2019.

 

2) Hateful Assault for +1A on charge/being charged.

 

3) Master of the Union warlord trait for +1 attack to WORD BEARERS DAEMONs.

 

4) Malefic Tome relic adds 1 to psychic tests and the bearer knows an extra power, thus Masters of Possessions can be more reliable.

 

5) Malevolent Covenent strategem allows you to auto-manifest a failed power and it can't be denied.

 

6) Revered Hosts strategem gives +1D to a possessed/greater possessed units melee weapons.

 

Just the new rules mean you can have possessed running 1+D3 attacks each (2+D3 on charge) at 5S/-2Ap/1D or 2D if you use strat.

Then, you have a MoP as your warlord who will now know all 3 Malefic discipline powers that enhance possessed. This will give you your choice between, re-fill the +d3 for attacks, improved invulnerable, or re-roll hit and wounds of 1. The biggest thing going for this set-up right now is that it only requires 1 unit of possessed and 1 MoP. You can get a little fancier if you go Tzeentch (only the MoP need be Tzeentch) for the strat to manifest an extra psychic power, meaning you can cast all 3 Malefic powers that buff possessed. You can also use the Psychic Familiar strat to gain the Dark Hereticus god-specific powers. Tzeentch will give your possessed a further improved InvSv (3++) with the Cursed Earth & Weaver of Fates powers. Slaanesh will give your possessed a 5+ FNP with delightful Agonies, stacked with Cursed earth, they are very tough. Again, this is just with the 1 unit and an MoP.

 

Add in the Daemonkin Ritualists and a Greater Possessed for more fun.

 

1) Greater Possessed give +1S to WORD BEARERS <MARK OF CHAOS> DAEMONs.

 

2) Take the Daemonkin Ritualists dettachment and make the GP your field commander so that DAEMONKIN RITUALISTS can add a mortal wound on a natural 6 to wound.

 

3) The Vessels of the Neverborn strat gives you +1S & +1A to a unit of possessed.

 

Now we have a unit of possessed that reaches a potential of 3+d3 (re-rolling d3) attacks, strength: 7, Damage: 2, re-rolling 1s to hit and wound, inflicting a mortal wound on a natural 6 to wound. Plus, you get whatever defensive route you take based on your god. This takes 2 characters, 1 unit possessed, and the specialist dettachment/field commander strats, if you want them. The big problem before was how many pieces you needed to make things work and the point cost. Both of these are now reduced.

[Doom Herald]

 

The Word Bearers rules in Faith & Fury happened.

Oh? The ones I've seen are nurgle alpha legion.

NURGLE possessed synergise well with ALPHA LEGION and NURGLE DAEMONs. You can use the Nurgle power Miasma of Pestilence for -1 to being hit, paired with the AL Legion trait (also -1 to be hit, but from 12+") for a -2 to being shot until they reach charge range. You can also grant them benefits from the NURGLE DAEMONs rules which grant bonuses to wound and extra damage.

 

Edit: they also have a strat for extra movement at the start, a redeploy strat with deepstrike rules & a warlord trait to redeploy your warlord with similar rules, and a strat that prevents them being shot if there's a closer unit.

 

They are more mobile and harder to shoot in an AL/Nurgle dettachment. Also, again the cost on possessed got cheaper.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Doom Herald

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

The Word Bearers rules in Faith & Fury happened.

Oh? The ones I've seen are nurgle alpha legion.

NURGLE possessed synergise well with ALPHA LEGION and NURGLE DAEMONs. You can use the Nurgle power Miasma of Pestilence for -1 to being hit, paired with the AL Legion trait (also -1 to be hit, but from 12+") for a -2 to being shot until they reach charge range. You can also grant them benefits from the NURGLE DAEMONs rules which grant bonuses to wound and extra damage.

 

Edit: they also have a strat for extra movement at the start, a redeploy strat with deepstrike rules & a warlord trait to redeploy your warlord with similar rules, and a strat that prevents them being shot if there's a closer unit.

 

They are more mobile and harder to shoot in an AL/Nurgle dettachment. Also, again the cost on possessed got cheaper.

 

Yeah, there are some Alpha Legion/Death Guard/Daemons 3 detachment Possessed Bomb lists showing up in tournaments. I think I saw one list on SpikeyBits for what it's worth.

[Prot]

Locally, we are trying to figure out why the possessed bomb has returned to prominence with chaos marine armies. What changed with the rules that its returned to play?

 

No one really plays chaos here but we are trying to get the community more involved in tournaments.

 

 

What you do is enjoy the -1 from Alpha. That's nothing new. 

 

You deploy Nurglings in cover, out of los, or by ITC rules in the first floor of ruins (can't be seen).

 

Then you play Miasma on the Possessed bomb. Use the Apostle to add -1 to hit (total -2). Then use the Alpha Strat when the possessed are targeted to make them another -1 (cumulative -3).

 

Alpha is better imo just because of the strats. You are ensuring something can't retreat from CC using a strat. No need to wrap. 

Perhaps one of the most amazing things is the Possessed will be deep enough to reach out to 18" of a super aura character and simply shut it off. 

While your own firebase (oblits/Havocs) enjoy -1 to be hit.

 

The strat is all encompassing though, and has a huge issue vs character killing armies like Raven Guard. 

 

I know we spent many hours and posts going through Possessed months ago and why they didn't work. Now they're cheaper and you can do them a few different ways (including Word Bearers), but I think their popularity is at its height artificially because of the immense success of the IH/IF fire base armies.

[Cryptix]

 

Locally, we are trying to figure out why the possessed bomb has returned to prominence with chaos marine armies. What changed with the rules that its returned to play?

 

No one really plays chaos here but we are trying to get the community more involved in tournaments.

 

 

What you do is enjoy the -1 from Alpha. That's nothing new. 

 

You deploy Nurglings in cover, out of los, or by ITC rules in the first floor of ruins (can't be seen).

 

Then you play Miasma on the Possessed bomb. Use the Apostle to add -1 to hit (total -2). Then use the Alpha Strat when the possessed are targeted to make them another -1 (cumulative -3).

 

Alpha is better imo just because of the strats. You are ensuring something can't retreat from CC using a strat. No need to wrap. 

Perhaps one of the most amazing things is the Possessed will be deep enough to reach out to 18" of a super aura character and simply shut it off. 

While your own firebase (oblits/Havocs) enjoy -1 to be hit.

 

The strat is all encompassing though, and has a huge issue vs character killing armies like Raven Guard. 

 

I know we spent many hours and posts going through Possessed months ago and why they didn't work. Now they're cheaper and you can do them a few different ways (including Word Bearers), but I think their popularity is at its height artificially because of the immense success of the IH/IF fire base armies.

 

I think you're mixing up a few things there. It's night lords that have the -1 to hit when shot at strat and the relic to shut down auras.

[Prot]

Yup. Thanks. I was mixing a few things up there. I still do think the Alpha Legion is the staple for making it as strong as possible.

 

Literally 3 months ago the whole premise of playing super competitive Possessed bomb just didn't really work. 

[MegaVolt87]

Yup. Thanks. I was mixing a few things up there. I still do think the Alpha Legion is the staple for making it as strong as possible.

 

Literally 3 months ago the whole premise of playing super competitive Possessed bomb just didn't really work.

 

Yeah I think the issues were also its very CP intensive, much heavier reliance on character buffs in an edition where MEQ struggle to generate CP and the ease of counters against characters. If auras and warlords moved to passive army always on buffs just by being taken, CP systems revision then there would be more interesting possibilities.

[Doom Herald]

I do want to test out a NL Nurgle Possessed blob with Icon, Dark Apostle, and Nurgle Sorcerer. Between the NL strat, prayer, and Miasma you are at -3 to being shot. Also, this group will have a -4 Ld before you add warlord traits, etc. Throw in prescience for your Sorcerer's second power and Prey on the Weak, which you can definitely benefit from due to Ld, and you're triggering Death to the False Emperor on a 4+.

 

In place of the Sorcerer, a DP might work too, then you'll get re-roll 1s in addition but only one power. The sorcerer/DP could even be Crimson Slaughter, since the power and the DP aura will work on HERETIC ASTARTES NURGLE DAEMONs from any legion. Then you have another strat that can give enemies -1 to hit and a warlord trait that can move to -2 Ld. Potential -4 to be hit, -6 Ld.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Doom Herald

[Iron Father Ferrum]

When planning on Ld debuff stacks, keep in mind that one stack is easily countered by a 2CP strat. Always plan to make multiple debuff stacks so not all of your debuffs are wasted.

[Doom Herald]

When planning on Ld debuff stacks, keep in mind that one stack is easily countered by a 2CP strat. Always plan to make multiple debuff stacks so not all of your debuffs are wasted.

The big thing here is it is a 2CP strat and that no one really goes into a game planning to use it. Most of this Ld debuff is built-in to being NLs. You get -3 from that mass just for having 3 NL units, up to -4 for Icon, the only iffy one is the CS warlord trait.

 

If you want to maximize morale damage, hitting multiple targets is a good idea. That said, I think I've had an opponent use that strat once. Most people either forget about it, or don't use it. In large point games, most people look at losing one or two units to morale as a nuisance, not worth CP. In smaller point games, they have less CP and either burn it out at the beginning or are saving it for a big plan.

[DkMiBuch]

No one is using Word Bearer or Night Lord Possessed competitively.

 

Alpha Legion is where it's at for one specific reason which I cannot believe no one has mentioned yet - The CONCEAL strategem.

Use at the start of your opponents shooting phase on an infantry unit (the Possessed) - They cannot be targeted unless they are the closest visible unit.

A great way of making them unkillable while moving up the board is having a Lord Discordant in front of them with the Clandestine WL trait, a Dark Apostle with Benediction of Darkness and a Nurgle Sorcerer with Miasma.

Throw it all on the Disco Lord and he's -4 to hit while outside of 12". This combined with Conceal on the Possessed is really, really good.
Now your opponent has to deal with a -4 to hit Disco Lord before being able to shoot at the Possessed bomb.

Not going first? No problem! All you need are Nurglings hiding in ruins midfield and the Forward Operatives strat!

Spend two CP on forward operatives on your Dark Apostle and the Possessed.
Make sure the DA is in FRONT of the Possessed.

Being a Character, he cannot be targeted because the Nurglings are closer. At the same time the Possessed can't be targeted beause the DA is closer.

There are a million dirty tricks and combos that AL Possessed can use, and there's a reason why all the big Chaos players at LVO (TJ Lanigan, Austin Wingfield, Jim Vesal) took them in some form or fashion.

Edited February 5, 2020 by DkMiBuch

[McElMcNinja]

How is the Disco Lord -4 to hit?

-1 from the WL trait.

-1 from the prayer.

-1 from the spell.

 

Legion traits only work on DP, infantry, bikers, and Hellbrutes.

[MegaVolt87]

How is the Disco Lord -4 to hit?

-1 from the WL trait.

-1 from the prayer.

-1 from the spell.

Legion traits only work on DP, infantry, bikers, and Hellbrutes.

Isn't there a NL relic that gives -1 to hit ?

[Special Officer Doofy]

 

How is the Disco Lord -4 to hit?

-1 from the WL trait.

-1 from the prayer.

-1 from the spell.

Legion traits only work on DP, infantry, bikers, and Hellbrutes.

Isn't there a NL relic that gives -1 to hit ?

Alpha legion has shadeblade which gives -1 to be to hit. Power sword or force sword only

[Doom Herald]

How is the Disco Lord -4 to hit?

-1 from the WL trait.

-1 from the prayer.

-1 from the spell.

 

Legion traits only work on DP, infantry, bikers, and Hellbrutes.

Legion traits now work on CHARACTERs, Helbrutes, Infantry, Bikers. When Discos got added, or shortly after, there was erata to make sure they got Legion traits.

[ChazSexington]

The Word Bearers rules in Faith & Fury happened.

 

It's Alpha Legion. 

 

No one is using Word Bearer or Night Lord Possessed competitively.

 

Alpha Legion is where it's at for one specific reason which I cannot believe no one has mentioned yet - The CONCEAL strategem.

Use at the start of your opponents shooting phase on an infantry unit (the Possessed) - They cannot be targeted unless they are the closest visible unit.

A great way of making them unkillable while moving up the board is having a Lord Discordant in front of them with the Clandestine WL trait, a Dark Apostle with Benediction of Darkness and a Nurgle Sorcerer with Miasma.

 

Throw it all on the Disco Lord and he's -4 to hit while outside of 12". This combined with Conceal on the Possessed is really, really good.

Now your opponent has to deal with a -4 to hit Disco Lord before being able to shoot at the Possessed bomb.

 

Not going first? No problem! All you need are Nurglings hiding in ruins midfield and the Forward Operatives strat!

 

Spend two CP on forward operatives on your Dark Apostle and the Possessed.

Make sure the DA is in FRONT of the Possessed.

 

Being a Character, he cannot be targeted because the Nurglings are closer. At the same time the Possessed can't be targeted beause the DA is closer.

 

There are a million dirty tricks and combos that AL Possessed can use, and there's a reason why all the big Chaos players at LVO (TJ Lanigan, Austin Wingfield, Jim Vesal) took them in some form or fashion.

 

Vesal uses Word Bearers IIRC - he just plonks the Ashen Axe on a Jump Pack Chaos Lord and ensures the pesky enemy aren't overwhelmed by cowardice and run away.

 

Just to add to this, Arkos the Faithless has -1 to hit built in. So slam him with -1 to hits, max it to -4, and you can double down on a model that's easier to hide. 

[tbone]

Also I believe there was a Slaanesh NightLords list at LVO that did well. Combos well with the epitome and provides advance and charge from loci.

I get why people go for alpha legion...for conceal and 9" pregame move, but I feel NightLords fall back and charge is key to keeping them alive through the late game.

[Are Verlo]

If you have free time on your hands and want to learn about what makes the AL-Nurgle-posessed bomb work, and some tips playing against it, then watch this clip from d6 evolution.

They break it down quite well and Manni C did well at the LVO.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxu0YX_i5Bo

[DkMiBuch]

Didn't Manni switch to marines for LVO? Edited February 8, 2020 by DkMiBuch

[Are Verlo]

Yes he did. I formulated the post poorly.

It was meant like: He breaks it down and he is a skilled player. Just look at his LVO placing.

[Furnace Lord]

I'm guessing Black Legion doesn't offer anything particularly special for the Possessed bomb? They're my home team :p

[DkMiBuch]

Well Black Legion had the original possessed bomb.

Chosen of the Pantheon gives them all four marks, meaning that they can benefit from both Weaver of Fates, Miasma and Delightful Agonies.

 

You further buff them with your Dark Apostles, and they can become a real threat.

 

Put a Bloodmaster with the Crimson Crown in there, pop Vets of the Long War and the prayer soultearer portent, and they get a crazy number of attacks.

 

But after the emergence of the new Grey Knights, all possessed bombs are gonna suffer big time.

 

Edit: The reason why people take Alpha Legion, is that they are the only ones which offer protection if you don't get first turn.

Black Legion Possessed will get slaughtered turn one if you don't go first.

Edited March 4, 2020 by DkMiBuch