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The Case for Chaos

Alpha Legion Chaos Chaos Space Marines Heretic Astartes

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#26
Lucerne

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I'm amused by the sheer volume of material that is dismissed as exceptions, head canon or secondary here - including, but not limited to official miniatures, rules and stories.

And I'm amused by the number of times it's possible to ignore the Codex's actual summary of the Legion and FW works in favor of trying to render one of the most interesting Legions into bland chaotic slurry. It isn't that people aren't free to make-believe about their take on the Alpha Legion. No one should begrudge that. But when AL material is as thin on the ground as it is, a handful of completely garbage stories cannot be taken as overriding the Legion summaries and more competent writers.

 

And "official miniatures" are a joke for representing canonical visuals.


Edited by Lucerne, 18 February 2020 - 07:30 PM.

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"The Alpha Legion has- in spirit if not in body- remained much the same since its creation."

 

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#27
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I'm amused by the sheer volume of material that is dismissed as exceptions, head canon or secondary here - including, but not limited to official miniatures, rules and stories.

And I'm amused by the number of times it's possible to ignore the Codex's actual summary of the Legion and FW works in favor of trying to render one of the most interesting Legions into bland chaotic slurry. It isn't that people aren't free to make-believe about their take on the Alpha Legion. No one should begrudge that. But when AL material is as thin on the ground as it is, a handful of completely garbage stories cannot be taken as overriding the Legion summaries and more competent writers.

 

 
The Codex summary that references Voldorius? Forge World who gave us our 40k special character Arkos (former possessed, daemon blade wielder, all around Chaos worshiper)? If you cut that much out then there's really not much left, that much is true lol.
 

And "official miniatures" are a joke for representing canonical visuals.

 
Does this not match this?
Or does artwork also not count?


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#28
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Right. This thread is nice and all, but is more and more moving from constructive arguments to bickering.

Let's get the constructive discussions going again and remember that the galaxy is a large place!
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#29
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Right. This thread is nice and all, but is more and more moving from constructive arguments to bickering.

Let's get the constructive discussions going again and remember that the galaxy is a large place!

 

Exactly, the galaxy is a large place and there are many exceptions and circumstances over the years of lore. There is no real hard typecasting like I mentioned in a prior post on the undivided legions. 


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#30
Lucerne

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Right. This thread is nice and all, but is more and more moving from constructive arguments to bickering.

Let's get the constructive discussions going again and remember that the galaxy is a large place!

 

Exactly, the galaxy is a large place and there are many exceptions and circumstances over the years of lore. There is no real hard typecasting like I mentioned in a prior post on the undivided legions. 

 

 

I mean, that's perfectly true- and part of the traitor Legions's charm: they're less boxed into a single style of organization or belief system than the loyalist counterparts.

 

But at this point, I honestly feel like the diehard "EVERYTHING HAS TO BE WARP'y" bunch can't really be reasoned with or communicated with at all. Any "arguments" they try and make have been addressed repeatedly and then ignored.

 

But  if we want to talk typecasting as valid, the best way to do that would be the Legion's codex "stereotypical approach" which is pointedly not full on warp worship for the AL by lore as written. (Honestly it feels like some of the warp'y fans would be happier with word bearers instead?)

 

Lord Bale is technically Alpha Legion. So's Voldorius. But it's downright ludicrous to say they're somehow the One True Way or even representative of the AL other than by technicality.

 

The difference between a reasonable fan and the arguments in this thread is that it's all very well and good to like Lord Bale, quite another to shriek about how everyone absolutely has to be Lord Bale, canon themes and evidence be damned. And that's honestly the last I have to say on this- one can't get blood out of a stone.
 


Edited by Lucerne, 18 February 2020 - 10:29 PM.

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"The Alpha Legion has- in spirit if not in body- remained much the same since its creation."

 

https://i.imgur.com/YxV2bFv.png <-This is what the Warhammer 40k setting is about.


#31
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How is stuff that's actually in the Codex only representative on a technical level?

 

And don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to bait you or something, but this thread is about making "a Case for Chaos" rather than discounting loyalist Alpha Legionnaires which very clearly exist in 40k as seen in "Sons of the Hydra".

I just fail to see where the contradiction between the lore text is and the artwork and miniatures or rules accompanying it (as well as the fluff texts that fit them).


Edited by Lay, 18 February 2020 - 10:43 PM.

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#32
Lucerne

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I'm not even talking about "loyalists", which are basically a meme in their own right alongside "spikey for the dark gods warpworshipping CSM, all the time, no exceptions". I am not arguing for loyalists, I am saying that it's a ludicrous stretch to argue the Alphas "must" be Chaotic rather than being a Legion that allows for warp'y warbands and marines. I basically see this thread as the equivalent of arguing the Word Bearers must  be close quarter Khornates or the Black Legion must be Slaaneshi.

 

This thread seems to have far too many people arguing that the Alpha Legion as a body and organization is chaotic, rather than a traitor Legion that has chaotic elements. One is fact-based, the other is basically stomping over the nature of the AL and trying to argue "everyone is Lord Bale".

 

The contradiction is that firstly, we know what the canonical Alpha Legion's "hat" is- ie: what we can safely say is represented in at least most of their warbands in some form. It's coordination, discipline, and varied, "dishonorable" tactics. Nowhere in that does it say "worship the dark gods" is a rule of thumb or necessity. There is room in there for oddballs like the Daggerfangs- which if you read their lore rather than just posting pictures, pointedly has them be exceptions from their Legion's general rule by being warp worshipers- or Voldorius. I am not denying that these outliers exist. I am denying that their quirks are representative rather than "well sure the canon allows you to do this".

 

Secondly, the models are obviously designed to represent the likes of the Black Legion. You can use them out the box to represent other Legions but if you tell me they're a good representation of the standard for Iron Warriors, Emperor's Children etc etc...That's why GW artwork that lines up with the models per their new corporate policy of "art must resemble the models we currently sell" is questionable. (Also GW uses photos of stock models so often to represent factions that don't actually look like clones in setting that I wouldn't advise citing that as a source for faction canon)

 

Thirdly, given we know full well the AL goes out of its way to wear false colours and basically every style of armor and design, including in BL materials such as John French's We Are One, citing their appearance for their allegiance is ironically the one case where it's not valid evidence.

 

The Legion's core themes can be found in the Codex summary blurb. Anything else is entirely up to individual interpretation or really closer to talking about individual warbands.


Edited by Lucerne, 18 February 2020 - 10:59 PM.

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"The Alpha Legion has- in spirit if not in body- remained much the same since its creation."

 

https://i.imgur.com/YxV2bFv.png <-This is what the Warhammer 40k setting is about.


#33
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I basically see this thread as the equivalent of arguing the Word Bearers must  be close quarter Khornates or the Black Legion must be Slaaneshi.


It's the equivalent of "Word Bearers and Black Legion must be Chaos Space Marines", dude. That Chaos Space Marines aren't all zealots is a given. Night Lords are a thing.
 

This thread seems to have far too many people arguing that the Alpha Legion as a body and organization is chaotic, rather than a traitor Legion that has chaotic elements. One is fact-based, the other is basically stomping over the nature of the AL and trying to argue "everyone is Lord Bale".

 
Fun fact about the Alpha Legion in Dawn of War: They bribe Orks to distract from their presence, hide from Space Marines, Eldar and Inquisition alike. And most of the corruption in the story comes from an approaching Warp Storm. And killing the Chaos Lord (i.e. cutting off the head) didn't affect them. Hell if you bother to look up some of the cutscenes Bale and Sindri mostly talk about how well they're hidden from the Imperial rather than praise Chaos. It's not that far off from what's in the Codex since 2nd edition. No stomping here.
 

The contradiction is that firstly, we know what the canonical Alpha Legion's "hat" is- ie: what we can safely say is represented in at least most of their warbands in some form. It's coordination, discipline, and varied, "dishonorable" tactics. Nowhere in that does it say "worship the dark gods" is a rule of thumb or necessity. There is room in there for oddballs like the Daggerfangs- which if you read their lore rather than just posting pictures, pointedly has them be exceptions from their Legion's general rule by being warp worshipers- or Voldorius. I am not denying that these outliers exist. I am denying that their quirks are representative rather than "well sure the canon allows you to do this".

Secondly, the models are obviously designed to represent the likes of the Black Legion. You can use them out the box to represent other Legions but if you tell me they're a good representation of the standard for Iron Warriors, Emperor's Children etc etc...That's why GW artwork that lines up with the models per their new corporate policy of "art must resemble the models we currently sell" is questionable.


What do Alpha Legion armies look like then? Everything is either a disguise, GW's company policy or an "oddball" - despite it all looking consistently the same since 2nd edition. I mean the galleries in the Eldar Codex have Iyanden Eldar with lots of walkers, Samhain with lots of jetbikes, the Ork Codex has Evil Sunz with Vehicles, the Chaos Codex shows Night Lords with Raptors and Warp Talons, Iron Warriors with Daemon Engines etc. But somehow GW can't get the Alpha Legion example armies right? I just don't believe this.
 

Thirdly, given we know full well the AL goes out of its way to wear false colours and basically every style of armor and design, including in BL materials such as John French's We Are One, citing their appearance for their allegiance is ironically the one case where it's not valid evidence.
 
The Legion's core themes can be found in the Codex summary blurb. Anything else is entirely up to individual interpretation or really closer to talking about individual warbands.

 
"The Alpha Legion wear many skins and don many guises in the prosecution of their covert agendas, but when the time to land the killing blow is nigh, they go to war in the colours of their Primarch Alpharius. It is not unusual for the Legion’s warriors to incorporate designs based on the scales of serpents into their battle plate, or even to have similar icons tattooed under their skin, visible only when the wearer wishes them to be." Summary blurb from the codex


Edited by Lay, 19 February 2020 - 12:16 AM.

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#34
Lucerne

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I basically see this thread as the equivalent of arguing the Word Bearers must  be close quarter Khornates or the Black Legion must be Slaaneshi.


It's the equivalent of "Word Bearers and Black Legion must be Chaos Space Marines", dude. That Chaos Space Marines aren't all zealots is a given. Night Lords are a thing.
 

This thread seems to have far too many people arguing that the Alpha Legion as a body and organization is chaotic, rather than a traitor Legion that has chaotic elements. One is fact-based, the other is basically stomping over the nature of the AL and trying to argue "everyone is Lord Bale".

 
Fun fact about the Alpha Legion in Dawn of War: They bribe Orks to distract from their presence, hide from Space Marines, Eldar and Inquisition alike. And most of the corruption in the story comes from an approaching Warp Storm. And killing the Chaos Lord (i.e. cutting off the head) didn't affect them. Hell if you bother to look up some of the cutscenes Bale and Sindri mostly talk about how well they're hidden from the Imperial rather than praise Chaos. It's not that far off from what's in the Codex since 2nd edition. No stomping here.
 

The contradiction is that firstly, we know what the canonical Alpha Legion's "hat" is- ie: what we can safely say is represented in at least most of their warbands in some form. It's coordination, discipline, and varied, "dishonorable" tactics. Nowhere in that does it say "worship the dark gods" is a rule of thumb or necessity. There is room in there for oddballs like the Daggerfangs- which if you read their lore rather than just posting pictures, pointedly has them be exceptions from their Legion's general rule by being warp worshipers- or Voldorius. I am not denying that these outliers exist. I am denying that their quirks are representative rather than "well sure the canon allows you to do this".

Secondly, the models are obviously designed to represent the likes of the Black Legion. You can use them out the box to represent other Legions but if you tell me they're a good representation of the standard for Iron Warriors, Emperor's Children etc etc...That's why GW artwork that lines up with the models per their new corporate policy of "art must resemble the models we currently sell" is questionable.


What do Alpha Legion armies look like then? Everything is either a disguise, GW's company policy or an "oddball" - despite it all looking consistently the same since 2nd edition. I mean the galleries in the Eldar Codex have Iyanden Eldar with lots of walkers, Samhain with lots of jetbikes, the Ork Codex has Evil Sunz with Vehicles, the Chaos Codex shows Night Lords with Raptors and Warp Talons, Iron Warriors with Daemon Engines etc. But somehow GW can't get the Alpha Legion example armies right? I just don't believe this.
 

Thirdly, given we know full well the AL goes out of its way to wear false colours and basically every style of armor and design, including in BL materials such as John French's We Are One, citing their appearance for their allegiance is ironically the one case where it's not valid evidence.
 
The Legion's core themes can be found in the Codex summary blurb. Anything else is entirely up to individual interpretation or really closer to talking about individual warbands.

 
"The Alpha Legion wear many skins and don many guises in the prosecution of their covert agendas, but when the time to land the killing blow is nigh, they go to war in the colours of their Primarch Alpharius. It is not unusual for the Legion’s warriors to incorporate designs based on the scales of serpents into their battle plate, or even to have similar icons tattooed under their skin, visible only when the wearer wishes them to be." Summary blurb from the codex

 

Irrelevant and inaccurate. It's projecting a particular take on the traitor Legions that may well fit some of them but has nothing to do with the depiction of that particular Legion's overall themes. It's certainly true for some outliers and individual cases but is not actually relevant when discussing what's true for the whole Legion. But then I think you know that full well and are simply arguing in bad faith.

 

So your argument is that being a frothing, incoherent idiot and ranting about metal boxes is the sole canonical interpretation of the AL? Because otherwise you're arguing an irrelevant point.

 

There really isn't much official AL art at all relative to the other Legions, which means the sloppy rush jobs get more relative screentime than they would for, say, Iron Warriors- but we have the BL book covers, the codex interior artpiece from recent editions, Eternal Crusade concept art, and the older 3e art of a champion with a chainaxe. All of which is relatively consistent without being generic and which the official new CSM models pointedly don't represent.

 

Daemon engines, huh? Nice goalpost shifting from the question of infantry models not being great at representing much of anything design-wise- the point of GW glamor shots has never been a question of lore. They exist solely to peddle the existing models, or I suppose it's canon that Abaddon took growth hormones between battles, what with him changing models in mid M41 and all. tongue.png

 

Why, yes, they do often wear blue and green! That doesn't prevent their usage of false flags/intentionally misleading iconography in the slightest or a wide range of designs to confuse the enemy- may I suggest you consult Sons of the Hydra, We Are One, and the FW description of their iconography if you still don't get that fairly obvious point from the Codex and need to educate yourself?

 

Good luck educating yourself about the actual lore- on your own time.


Edited by Lucerne, 19 February 2020 - 12:41 AM.

"The Alpha Legion has- in spirit if not in body- remained much the same since its creation."

 

https://i.imgur.com/YxV2bFv.png <-This is what the Warhammer 40k setting is about.


#35
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Cool of you to keep shifting the goalposts there, Lucerne. When we post stuff from the Codex, we’re ignoring stuff from the novels. We post stuff from the novels, and you dismiss it as non-canonical and tell us to read the codex.

So please, quit with the straw-man arguments. We’re not “stomping over everything trying to argue the AL are all Lord Bale.” We’re not saying the Alpha Legion are crazed warp-cultists with no discipline. We’re saying they are Chaos Space Marines, and make use of Chaos and the Warp. They are Chaos Space Marines, not Misunderstood Secret Loyalist Marines. It’s funny how this “they’re not Chaos” thing only started after Legion came out, despite the core of their background still being the same as it was in 2nd edition. Which again, outright states the bulk of the Legion went into the Eye.
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#36
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Stop arguing with him guys. I appreciate the backup, but I bowed out because Lucerne is clearly unable to accept GW publications as reflecting GW lore accurately. Everything we post is "unrepresentative" of his stuck-in-30K headcanon.

We'll never convince him he's wrong despite the evidence right in front of his face.
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#37
slitth

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I think we cannot say where or not the Alpha Legion is "really Chaotic", because we have not probably defined what "really Chaotic" means.

 

For example is "really Chaotic" defined by the worship of the chaos gods or just their acceptance of their existence?

For if that was the case the a special character like Fabius Bile would not be "really Chaotic" as he doesn't even accept that where are gods.

 

And by that definition I would not confirm that the Alpha Legion in general is "really Chaotic"

Sure we have not really nice examples of some members of the Alpha Legion going "really Chaotic"

But the legion in general? No information can confirm or deny this.

 

Now some will point out the rules and some of the nice art that is available.

To that my first question would be

Do you really think that GW would risk creating a great imbalance in term of gameplay by giving the Alpha Legion a different army list?

Would denying the Alpha Legion the use of some units not hamper them?

Or what if Alpha Legion got really good units to replace the lack of unit X?

After all GW has not given the loyal and heretic more or less similar rules to prevent imbalance?

 

I also have not see a single Alpha Legion specific model release for 40K

And all the models that are showcased only have the bare minimum done to them.

A paint job and the icon from a transfer sheet.

If I strip the models of paint, there would be not indication whatsoever that they where from the Alpha Legion.

Just take the Dark Apostle. Without a paint job does in any way make you think Alpha Legion?

 

The we have the art.

Each time I talk to someone from GW about the art and lore.

I am told that it more a rule of cool than the lore that what drives the creative process.

So we should not use art to determine what is cannon in the lore.

 

So from this I would not say the Alpha Legion is "really Chaotic" if we go from the definition of worship or acceptance of the gods.

Nor would I say that it disprove as we do not have enough information about the legion as a hole to make any claim.

 

One could also defined "really Chaotic" but the use of chaos power and knowledge.

In this argument I would say that Alpha Legion is very much "really Chaotic"

From story and codex there is a clear indication that nothing is taboo for the Alpha Legion to use or do.

To them the result is all that matters, the means to the end are something that is to be use and discard.


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#38
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@Iron Father Ferrum, I wanted to post something else anyways. Mostly adding to the OP. You've already covered the older stuff so here's some more recent Chaos fluff.

 
Dataslate: Cypher (6th edition) is another source that confirms the Legion's presence within the Eye of Terror:

Spoiler

Dataslate: Helbrutes (6th edition) tells us how NL and AL deploy their Helbrutes:

Spoiler

Crusade of Fire (6th Edition) A campaign book. Example of the Legion deploying Daemon Engines:

Spoiler

Codex: Harlequins (8th Edition) Attempt at mass daemon summoning:

Spoiler

 

 

And some material from Fantasy Flight Games' RPG books:

 

Black Crusade: Broken Chains (2011) A stand-alone scenario that serves as an introduction to FFG's Black Crusade RPG. Gives players the option to play as Ciro, an Alpha Legionnaire:

Spoiler

Death Watch: First Founding (2011) As the title says, a supplement about the Chapters and Legions of the First Founding. There's a scenario called "Traitor's Dawn" in which the Alpha Legion tries to cause infighting between several First Founding Chapters (Salamanders, Iron Hands and White Scars) -  and it's up to the Deathwatch (i.e. the payers) to stop them.

Spoiler

 

 

Granted, there's more, but listing everything would be just excessive.


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#39
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To that my first question would be

Do you really think that GW would risk creating a great imbalance in term of gameplay by giving the Alpha Legion a different army list?

Would denying the Alpha Legion the use of some units not hamper them?

Or what if Alpha Legion got really good units to replace the lack of unit X?

After all GW has not given the loyal and heretic more or less similar rules to prevent imbalance?

 

I would argue that that's exactly what the 3.5 book did for other Legions. The Death Guard were refused Bikers/Raptors/infantry-carried heavy weapons, and severely limited in transport numbers, because that's how the Death Guard worked. The Thousand Sons had the same thing, with Rubrics restricted to only bolters for power armour, and power weapons/combi-bolters for terminator armour (other than the Aspiring Sorcerors leading them, of course), no bikers, no Raptors, etc.

 

Clearly, the writers had no hesitation towards putting restrictions on models to make them match the fluff of their Legion better (even if they didn't distinguish between, for example, Death Guard and Nurgle-marked Chaos Marines, which I'm still bitter about). However, the only restrictions on the Alpha Legion were that they could only bring Daemon Packs to the battlefield through icons carried by Cultists.

They also can only have the Mark of Chaos Undivided, showing the fact that, while they were Chaos Marines, they don't have any strong inclinations towards one God or another, and also solidifying that they absolutely have a relation with Chaos themselves. The book does specify that the Mark of Chaos Undivided can represent both worshipping Chaos as a pantheon, as a single entity, or to represent those that seek to use Chaos for their own benefit while giving as little as possible, which I'd say is the best portrayal of the Alpha Legions relationship to Chaos. If they were truly as Warp-atheistic as some make out, they wouldn't have access to Obliterators or daemonically-possessed tanks, not to mention daemon princes or possessed.

 

Are the Alpha Legion "Chaotic" in the same sense of the Word Bearers, in that they all go to Chaos Church to listen to the sermons of their Dark Apostle, and see their purpose as to spread the influence of the Gods throughout the galaxy? Definitely not, as Lucerne rightly points out, they're not Word Bearers, Chaos as a fanatic religion isn't the Alpha Legion's shtick.

 

Do the Alpha Legion see the Chaos Gods as a source of power, and a tool to be used? Absolutely. Chaos is a weapon to them, something that can greatly benefit the wielder, but that also comes at great cost. To some within the Alpha Legion, the cost might be seen as too great, or too much risk, so they minimize the use as much as possible, others have the opposite view. However, it is always within their arsenal, even if they limit its use to their psykers not abiding by the restrictions of the Librarius and embracing the full power of the Warp, or convince themselves that they're not affected just because they have cultists do the daemon summoning instead of doing it themselves.


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#40
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The Alpha Legion purged any loyalist elements during the Heresy using the Shattered Legions. Alpharius' death will cause Omegon to devout his existence to the destruction of the Imperium (Even if he were to/or had killed Dorn)

The AL warband which assisted the TS in attacking the SW and GK were Chaos worshippers. Omegon is still alive but is involved with the Necrons

If the Chaos Gods told the Alpha Legion or any other Heretic/Traitor/Chaos Space Marine to do something. They have to do it or they die. Anybody/Anything corrupted/tainted by Chaos becomes a tool of it unable to say no

It is fair to say that the Dark Gods can override any order Omegon or a Senior Commander gives to an Alpha Legionnaire. Eternal bondage

#41
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The Alpha Legion purged any loyalist elements during the Heresy using the Shattered Legions. Alpharius' death will cause Omegon to devout his existence to the destruction of the Imperium (Even if he were to/or had killed Dorn)

The AL warband which assisted the TS in attacking the SW and GK were Chaos worshippers. Omegon is still alive but is involved with the Necrons

If the Chaos Gods told the Alpha Legion or any other Heretic/Traitor/Chaos Space Marine to do something. They have to do it or they die. Anybody/Anything corrupted/tainted by Chaos becomes a tool of it unable to say no

It is fair to say that the Dark Gods can override any order Omegon or a Senior Commander gives to an Alpha Legionnaire. Eternal bondage

True they remove some element that were going rogue.

 

But we still do not know the motivations of the Primarch of the Alpha Legion after the battle of Pluto.

And we do not know what he has be up to after the battle of Eskrador.

 

Last and not least. Eternal bondage means that you have to swear you self to the gods.

And can name 2 excellent example of 2 big characters that do not care what the gods command them to do.

Ahzek Ahriman and Fabius Bile

There are more than them but they are just the ones I remembered first


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#42
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The Alpha Legion purged any loyalist elements during the Heresy using the Shattered Legions. Alpharius' death will cause Omegon to devout his existence to the destruction of the Imperium (Even if he were to/or had killed Dorn)

The AL warband which assisted the TS in attacking the SW and GK were Chaos worshippers. Omegon is still alive but is involved with the Necrons

If the Chaos Gods told the Alpha Legion or any other Heretic/Traitor/Chaos Space Marine to do something. They have to do it or they die. Anybody/Anything corrupted/tainted by Chaos becomes a tool of it unable to say no

It is fair to say that the Dark Gods can override any order Omegon or a Senior Commander gives to an Alpha Legionnaire. Eternal bondage

 

You got any source for this speculation regarding Omegon? 


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#43
Moonreaper666

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The Alpha Legion purged any loyalist elements during the Heresy using the Shattered Legions. Alpharius' death will cause Omegon to devout his existence to the destruction of the Imperium (Even if he were to/or had killed Dorn)

The AL warband which assisted the TS in attacking the SW and GK were Chaos worshippers. Omegon is still alive but is involved with the Necrons

If the Chaos Gods told the Alpha Legion or any other Heretic/Traitor/Chaos Space Marine to do something. They have to do it or they die. Anybody/Anything corrupted/tainted by Chaos becomes a tool of it unable to say no

It is fair to say that the Dark Gods can override any order Omegon or a Senior Commander gives to an Alpha Legionnaire. Eternal bondage


You got any source for this speculation regarding Omegon?

It is one of the AL novels, Sons of Hydra. Omegon is MIA and the Deceiver knows where he is

Even the 'loyalist' Alpha Legionairres can be forced by the Chaos Gods/Warp/Powerful Daemons to attack the Imperium. Ahriman has never been ordered to do something and since his actions benefit Chaos it doesn't matter

(Ahriman and his warband has killed plenty of Grey Knights and Eldar. While not as much killing as the trillions Khârn or Typhus have killed it is a quality vs quantity sort of thing)

#44
Lord_Caerolion

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The Deceiver knowing where Omegon is A- doesn't mean he's telling the truth, remember he's literally named after how much he lies and deceives and B- doesn't mean that they're involved with each other. It just means it knows where he is. I know about the Roman Empire, but that doesn't mean I'm involved with them, or that they're involved with me.


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"And then Horus landed on the Moon, which looked like the moon. Funny that, isn't it?"


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#45
Moonreaper666

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The Deceiver knowing where Omegon is A- doesn't mean he's telling the truth, remember he's literally named after how much he lies and deceives and B- doesn't mean that they're involved with each other. It just means it knows where he is. I know about the Roman Empire, but that doesn't mean I'm involved with them, or that they're involved with me.


Kinda fitting that the Deceiver and Omegon know each other since they both use the same skills. The Deceiver knows things so he probably has clues
 


Edited by Excessus, 08 March 2020 - 08:08 AM.
Removed obvious attempt at trolling


#46
Lord_Caerolion

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The Deceiver knowing where Omegon is A- doesn't mean he's telling the truth, remember he's literally named after how much he lies and deceives and B- doesn't mean that they're involved with each other. It just means it knows where he is. I know about the Roman Empire, but that doesn't mean I'm involved with them, or that they're involved with me.

Kinda fitting that the Deceiver and Omegon know each other since they both use the same skills. The Deceiver knows things so he probably has clues
 

Kinda fitting that, again, you haven’t provided any proof. The Deceiver and Omegon “know each other”? No. There is absolutely zero evidence for this, other than an infamous lier telling someone something with nothing to back it up, and who stands to benefit from the lie. Inquisitors use the same skills. The Raven Guard use the same skills. Any undercover Chaos Cult uses the same skills. Eldar Pathfinders use the same skills. Solitaires use the same skills. The Deceiver and Omegon both being sneaky is not proof they know each other, or a hint that they know each other.
 


Edited by Excessus, 08 March 2020 - 08:07 AM.
Collateral damage quote

"And then Horus landed on the Moon, which looked like the moon. Funny that, isn't it?"


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#47
Excessus

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The Deceiver knowing where Omegon is A- doesn't mean he's telling the truth, remember he's literally named after how much he lies and deceives and B- doesn't mean that they're involved with each other. It just means it knows where he is. I know about the Roman Empire, but that doesn't mean I'm involved with them, or that they're involved with me.


Kinda fitting that the Deceiver and Omegon know each other since they both use the same skills. The Deceiver knows things so he probably has clues

 

Fitting? In what way? Even if I know that someone is working with the same stuff as I am on the other side of the planet, there is no reason to automatically assume that I know him.


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