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Cults of the Legion: Cult of Prophecy

- - - - - Thousand sons Ahriman Magnus psychic powers great cults Psychic Awakening Ritual of the damned

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#1
Prot

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I thought it would be a good idea if we, collectively, have a look at the new cults as seen in Ritual of the damned.

 

Let's start with Cult of Prophecy:

 

Psychic Power:

 

Divine the Future.

 

Warp Charge: 6

 

If manifested, set aside a D6 until the start of your next Psychic Phase..... can be used for: a hit, wound, advance, or charge roll, as well as a Psychic Test, Deny, or Morale test (For CoP units only)

 

 

Warlord Trait:

 

Guided by the Whispers (Do you hear the voices too?)

 

Once per turn, after firing overwatch, immediately move up to 6".

 

 

 

 

Sorcerous Arcana: 

 

Pythic Brazier

 

Friendly units within 6: Reroll one hit roll, one wound roll or one damage roll.

 

 

 

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

The Psychic power is a wildcard. The good news is this is an ability that can be leveraged by ANY part of your army. It says nothing about being cult specific. So this could be a save on Magnus, a number of shots roll on a vindicator, or a Morale test on your Cultists.

 

It is similar to the existing Gaze of Fate power which simply awards a re-roll but in this case you don't have knowledge of what the roll will be. 

 

This is a fun, completely useful in any game type of power. The problem is with the 'per detachment' restriction, this is very hard to have as a replacement for one of the standard powers/cults. But perhaps this shouldn't be over looked. Stacked with Gaze of Fate, you are essentially guaranteeing an action: A Psychic test? A charge?  Combining both powers, you'd have to assume you would be saving at least 1, if not 2 Cp per turn. That's not bad and makes an argument for not needing Helm of the Third Eye or Perfidious Tome.

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

The Warlord trait is useful, but seems too far down the list. If your Warlord is getting charged, you might be in deep trouble already.  However, combined with a Disk, or Wings, this essentially cancels a charge. I do imagine that a savvy opponent will pick up on this ability and apply 'false' charges to you to try to trigger the event. Since charges are committed one at a time, this could open up some bad results for you if you're not careful.

 

Sidenote: A combo I've thought of is to 'react' away from a fight, but position your Warlord into a Heroic Intervention position. OR use "Yoke" to get your Warlord much closer to a reacting Scarab Occult unit.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

The Relic might be one of my least favourite. I feel like this is best placed around a firebase unit like a Contemptor or Leviathan. Since the restriction is ONE roll. I'm assuming that's what it means. Maybe I'm missing something but this seems like it could have been a bit better. 

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

What are your thoughts? Could this Cult crack your top 3? 


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#2
Heliomanes

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Interesting initiative, Prot.

I do not have much good to say about the cult of prophecy. I think they have been badly handled. The spell is not worth that much, since they can only support themselves, and not - say, provide precognitive support to their fellow brothers regardless of cult - like the Legion did in the Thousand Sons 30k books. Which would be ok if the effect was strong, which it is not. Underwhelming. And to make things worse, assuming that I have understood the mechanic properly - the relic functions for any friendly model. Meaning it is made for soup, having a cheap thousand son character babysit a chaos knight or something similarly expensive and give it rerolls. So again I think it is badly mismanaged. Either it gives a miniscule bonus to its own detachment, or a huge bonus to soup - but little utility for a Thousand Sons based army in itself. Boo. Throws tomato.


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#3
Skerr

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I definitely think this (the relic) was a way to get us some more reliable heavy firepower and am not convinced it will be FAQ to detachment only.

I would not be surprised to see it FAQ though think this was actually by design.

The miracle die is cool but it is left to chance so if you roll 1 it likely useless and its utility goes up each value from there so some games it might have average or little effect. Some games it might be bonkers!!

The WLT seems more of a by chance add on or side dish rather than main course of the cult.

I think for folks who run a spearhead its a good option.
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#4
Sonoftherubric21

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The Brazier feels like a bet on relic for big damage. Something like a Vindicator shell or anything with D6 shots or D6 damage. 

 

The spell feels very useful and I totally agree about comboing it with the gaze of fate for duel re-rolls. So 2 out of 3 ain't bad! For the Warlord its not good enough for us to use it most of the time. I feel like the innate +1 to cast or +1 to invul is just straight better for us on the table. 


Edited by Sonoftherubric21, 24 January 2020 - 08:01 PM.

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#5
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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The relic is a favorite of mine, I think. Triggers whenever a unit within range is chosen to shoot or fight, so if you're running a firebase of Predators, Helbrutes, Daemon Engines, etc., it's gonna be fun. 3 Preds each being able to reroll one damage roll for one of their lascannons sounds cool.

 

Also, if you're running Daemon Engines instead, then having a Daemon Prince of Tzeentch hanging out with them with the Brazier, Gaze of Fate, and Flickering Flames should pay off nicely.  Or you can use multiple characters and spread the buffs. Don't forget Temporal Manipulation somewhere to increase their healing.


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#6
Zodd1888

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Not a fan unfortunately.

If the relic applied to all units within 6", not just once, I think I'd like Cults as an alternative (read: more reasonable) choose your own chapter traits. Lower range and one character has the relic, meaning that relic is always at risk, so you can manage threats more reasonably as an opponent. That said, this topic ain't about the loyalists.

I think there is warrant to a mono build where this was a patrol. You're effectively getting 2 CP from the relic and power when they succeed, from my perspective.

The other piece is everything boosts only one unit. Power goes off and has one random die result, relic is one reroll, and WL effects only the individual model on overwatch.

Nothing amplifies the armies effectiveness, so Prophecy a nice to have third detachment that won't be your warlord. I think this is arguably better if you're looking at taking the 4+/1- CP relic this Cult provides a greater benefit.

Edited by Zodd1888, 25 January 2020 - 01:16 AM.

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#7
Archaeinox

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If manifested, set aside a D6 until the start of your next Psychic Phase..... can be used for: a hit, wound, advance, or charge roll, as well as a Psychic Test, Deny, or Morale test (For CoP units only)

 

 

 

 

 

The Psychic power is a wildcard. The good news is this is an ability that can be leveraged by ANY part of your army. It says nothing about being cult specific. So this could be a save on Magnus, a number of shots roll on a vindicator, or a Morale test on your Cultists.

 

 

 

Just to make sure we're talking about the same power here and so I'm not confused- Are you talking about the same power in these two lines? I feel like the Prophecy d6 substitute is for less things than we'd like..


Edited by Archaeinox, 25 January 2020 - 02:15 AM.

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#8
Are Verlo

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I kind of like the CoP in a small spearhead detatchment.
1 exalted
3 hellforged contemptors with 2 twin las/butcher or c-beam.
Rr 1’s to hit, one extra reroll per contemptor per from the relic and a potetial reroll from the power (if you roll ok).

#9
JamesI

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I kind of like the CoP in a small spearhead detatchment.
1 exalted
3 hellforged contemptors with 2 twin las/butcher or c-beam.
Rr 1’s to hit, one extra reroll per contemptor per from the relic and a potetial reroll from the power (if you roll ok).

I was considering something similar.  Though I dislike having to make the exalted my warlord to get the relic.


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#10
Are Verlo

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I kind of like the CoP in a small spearhead detatchment.
1 exalted
3 hellforged contemptors with 2 twin las/butcher or c-beam.
Rr 1’s to hit, one extra reroll per contemptor per from the relic and a potetial reroll from the power (if you roll ok).

I was considering something similar. Though I dislike having to make the exalted my warlord to get the relic.

That’s true. I might run the exalted as WL and use the magister strat to give a WLT to a prince from an other battalion. But you are correct, having to use a CoP WL is a bit of a downer.

#11
GreenPlasma

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I have been theorycrafting this (without playing it!) but these are my thoughts.

  • The Cult Relic, Cult Power, Gaze reroll, and CP reroll give you enormously boosted AT capability on a single unit.
  • Being able to plan around a D6 roll = massive. You can be greedy and overcharge plasma pistols on Sorcerers at zero risk. You can guarantee hits on flyers at -2 or -3 to hit. Because you know the result beforehand, you also know if it's important to play Prescience on a unit to ensure the shot hits.
  • Rerolling damage = Aside from Lascannons, this is going to be useful on force weapons or the D6 Defiler claw. Also, Krak Grenades.
  • WL trait = Depending on how much hate your rerolls get, your character is going to be targeted. If they send a Smash Captain, the WLT is useful because you can ensure intervention from Rubrics or a nearby character, if not escape entirely. If they have snipers, you might want the 4++ WLT instead and use Infusion + Temporal Manipulation if a lot of wounds come through. Powering up survival on the Boon table would also help.
  • A major issue with having a Cult WLT -- you lose High Magister. So fishing on the Boon table for +1 to cast, adding a Noctilith Crown, bringing the Change relic, is all really going to help.

That's all I can really think of for now. I think having this many rerolls is actually really strong! But it favors swingy play rather than weight of dice.


Edited by GreenPlasma, 25 January 2020 - 05:40 PM.

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#12
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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Not a fan unfortunately.

If the relic applied to all units within 6", not just once, I think I'd like Cults as an alternative (read: more reasonable) choose your own chapter traits. Lower range and one character has the relic, meaning that relic is always at risk, so you can manage threats more reasonably as an opponent. That said, this topic ain't about the loyalists.

 

I'm confused. How does the following not apply to all units within 6"?

 

"When a unit within 6 of a friendly model with this Relic is chosen to shoot or fight with, you can re-roll one hit roll, one wound roll, or one damage roll."

That's the exact text. So whenever you choose a unit within 6 to shoot or fight, you get one of the three re-rolls for that unit at that time. If I had three Preds within 6 and they each fire, then each one gets one re-roll to use on one of the three things. 


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#13
Archaeinox

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Yes, multiple folks are saying how good it is in my area and theyre not even TS

"You're a wizard, Ahri"

"Discgoat for Harambe"


#14
Heliomanes

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Yes, multiple folks are saying how good it is in my area and theyre not even TS

That's why I don't like it. Another reason to just use us as a soup ingredient, giving rerolls to Knights and Exalted flamers.



#15
Prot

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I have to agree. It is good, but not nearly as good for thousand done as it could be for...I dunno a Tyrant shooting a volcano cannon?

 

i think for a long time the true Thousand Sons community has been asking for more reasons NOT to soup them. This would be another case for that SCD we keep seeing. 


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#16
Zodd1888

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Did I read that wrong? Is it more than one time across a round? I thought it only applied to one unit one time in a round.

#17
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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Did I read that wrong? Is it more than one time across a round? I thought it only applied to one unit one time in a round.

What I quoted was the exact text, transcribed off my phone, so it does indeed look like every time a unit within 6 attacks, they get one reroll.



#18
Zodd1888

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Did I read that wrong? Is it more than one time across a round? I thought it only applied to one unit one time in a round.

What I quoted was the exact text, transcribed off my phone, so it does indeed look like every time a unit within 6 attacks, they get one reroll.

Okay that's much better than what I had thought, much more balanced than expert crafters/artisans.

Sucks on the fact it's a relic and locked behind the WL deal, but this is life!

#19
The Blood Raven

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I'm leaning towards a prince and sing the tenacious survivor or otherworldly prescience sitting near decimators. I agree that souping something similar is probably better most of the time.


Edited by The Blood Raven, 28 January 2020 - 02:03 AM.


#20
SirVulkan

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I like this cult for a spearhead/vanguard detachment with an exalted sorcerer using prescience and then 3 heavy/elite shooty units.  It really shores up our shooting in the back field which has been one of our main weaknesses. 

 

Id skip the warlord trait.  Though it fluff wise it seems fine, its just not fitting rule wise.


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#21
Archaeinox

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I played a game vs. Blood Angels last night. He had a mix of stuff and although he attempted to use the 3d6" charge and such, he rolled poorly. He won on kill points, but here's some insight for Prophecy:

I made the entire Battalion Cult of Prophecy in this 2000pt game. I rolled a 1 for my first Prophecy cast and it didn't contribute anything at first until the Rubrics had to take a bad morale check. I botched it hard, and subbed in the 1, making it a pass.

For the next few turns, the Prophecy roll was a 4. Each time, I replaced a bad psychic test dice with the 4 at some point during each subsequent psychic phase where I had access to this 4.

Although it was the difference between a passed test and a failed test, I had used them for either Doombolt on a unit of Terminators with only 2 models remaining (not too much of a threat since we have Indomitable & a 5++), or Smite which caused minimal wounds.

The Relic performed fantastically. The guy who had it sat next to Rubrics and 2 Predators. It worked ok, especially against a Baal Pred, sanguinary guard and a death co dread. I also deliberately avoided Helm of the Third Eye as a lesson. The lesson was: I desperately need a way to get more CP during the game. Do not play the game without this or Perfidious Tome.

I made a series of tactical blunders and terrible choices this game in the interest to try something new for the sake of 'giving it a chance' and although I attribute the loss to my own decisions in game and not the rules of Prophecy, I likely won't be taking the cult again because I felt like I wasnt getting anything of value across the army.

I had a Time patrol. I'll post something in the Time post.


Edited by Archaeinox, 06 February 2020 - 04:47 PM.

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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Thousand sons, Ahriman, Magnus, psychic powers, great cults, Psychic Awakening, Ritual of the damned

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