Mortifactor in Ironwing/armored breakthrough

[depthcharge12]

Didn’t know if this had come up, but for the purpose of the rule that states that all infantry must start in a vehicle for Ironwing, does the Mortifactor get an exception to the rule?

 

His rule says that he and his dread buddies are all counted as a vehicle squadron. Does this supersede the infantry rule? Can I run a mortifactor in Ironwing as there is no physical way to stick him in a transport (save a mastodon)?

[The Ironic Warrior]

Didn’t know if this had come up, but for the purpose of the rule that states that all infantry must start in a vehicle for Ironwing, does the Mortifactor get an exception to the rule?

 

His rule says that he and his dread buddies are all counted as a vehicle squadron. Does this supersede the infantry rule? Can I run a mortifactor in Ironwing as there is no physical way to stick him in a transport (save a mastodon)?

Ironwing says all infantry units must blah blah blah, but he isn't an infantry unit technically. He has the type infantry, but is treated as a vehicle squadron (and it calls out the Mort specifically as being included in this generalisation).

 

I would say yes you can use him in Ironwing. It's a fluffy choice and makes sense.

[noigrim]

I'd say no

[The Ironic Warrior]

I'd say no

It's treated as a vehicle squadron though, and as there are no rules for what you do with a mixed unit the only thing we have to go on is the exact wording:

 

"The entire unit including the Mortificator is treated as a vehicle squadron, with the exception that each model in the unit may select a different target in the Shooting phase."

 

Seems pretty clear to me in that regard, it says it is treated as a vehicle squadron. It calls out the Moritifactor specifically as being included, therefore the unit is a vehicle squadron in any regard.

[AdamSMValar]

Advanced rule set always supersedes basic rule set. Page 20 of the rulebook

[The Ironic Warrior]

Advanced rule set always supersedes basic rule set. Page 20 of the rulebook

So that means that you can take Mortificators, or can't? Just to double check my own understanding reading the Advance Rule section.

[AdamSMValar]

I suppose yeah his basic rule set is infantry, but the advance (in his own profile rules) supercedes it

[TheCelticRaven]

being a vehicle squadron isn't a unit type, it is treated as a special rule that applies to units of vehicles, the mortifactor is still treated as an infantry model and therefore as he cannot be in a transport (unless it is a mastadon) he cant be taken. it is the same for rapiers and praevians. 

[AdamSMValar]

I never said anything about unit type.....I said the "vehicle squadron" -advance- rule supercedes the basic rule set. When the entire "vehicle squadron" rule only refers to vehicles in the entry by your logic he can move or shoot or fight or pretty much do anything because there is no mention of infantry in the rule. For all intention purposes he is a vehicle, so I don't see the problem.

[The Ironic Warrior]

I've been discussing it with some of my Heresy locals and I am starting to lean to the direction of it counting as an Infantry unit (as it has an infantry model in it). Potentially the RoW will be fixed shortly anyway to allow them as I feel they are fluffy to have nonetheless, but it's a wierd one alright.

[depthcharge12]

That was my line of thinking - vehicle squadron is not really a “type” but I think it was intended by FW to be so. They could have been clearer about it.

[The Ironic Warrior]

That was my line of thinking - vehicle squadron is not really a “type” but I think it was intended by FW to be so. They could have been clearer about it.

Exactly this - I think it is INTENDED to be a type, but in its current wording it isn't, despite my initial thoughts. Play it as it isn't a vehicle for now until FW clarifies it one way or the other. I'm still waiting for them to clarify the Arquitor so don't hold your breath for a reply...

[TheSpeckledTrout]

Bumping this thread with a  quick rules question of my own:

 

"All infantry units in the army must begin the game deployed in a transporting vehicle with the Tank type that has sufficient Transport capacity to carry them."

 

If I bring a 10-man Jump-Pack equipped Destroyer Squad, would that unit be beholden to this rule, considering its type is now 'Jump Infantry'? Can they be deployed without a Tank type Transport, or must they be deployed in such a Transport?

Edited January 29, 2020 by TheSpeckledTrout

[Erren]

Must be deployed in such a transport. Jump Infantry are a type of Infantry. Page 66 of the HH Rulebook for Jump units.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Yep, and only certain superheavies have the ability to transport jump infantry models.

[The Ironic Warrior]

Sadly the Mastadon doesn't have the Tank type, so you can't even use that to get round this. Forgeworld needs to really give the Super Heavy Tanks the Tank type. You know, like the Typhon Heavy Siege TANK, and the Fellblade Super-Heavy TANK. Yikes...

 

But yes there is no Jump Infantry type, it is Infantry that are Jump. It's a silly way of doing it but this is how FW wants to do it so we gotta roll with it. Infantry is Infantry after all...

[depthcharge12]

You’d think if it was a mobility issue that one of the Mortifactor’s dread buddies would just Velcro him to the front and sprint with him attached lol :D

 

I’m sure I’m beating a dead horse here but FW needs to think holistically when making rules.

[The Ironic Warrior]

I just have visions of one of them carrying him in a lil' babycarrier into battle. Don't tempt me to build one when I get round to it haha.

You're focusing on the wrong word; Forgeworld needs to THINK when writing their rules. Let's not forget the Arquitor BOMBARD which needs line of sight to fire it's weird weapon which is totally an "over-the-top" firing solution weapon. Oh and they need to stop trying to turn Heresy into 8th Edition 2: Electric Boogaloo because we fear change...