Primaris with no rapid fire weapons

[momerathe]

Just a thing that occurred to me re. the incompatibility of bolter discipline and SIA

 

* Auto bolter intercessors are mathematically equal or better than rapid fire against 3+ or worse save; SIA makes them better versus pretty much everything. Teleportarium can mitigate the short range.

* Stalker bolt rifles make for great objective holders and are pretty legit in their own right. SIA just makes them better.

 

I know Fortis kill teams are generally seen as the weaker choice compared to Vets, but I could easily see a primaris double-battalion putting in some good work.

 

 

Batallion

- Watch master

- Librarian; Force sword, Storm Bolter

- 10 Autobolter intercessors; power fist, AGL

x3

 

Batallion

- Watch Captain; Jump Pack, Storm Bolter, Thunder hammer

x2

- 5 Stalker Intercessors

x3

- Repulsor Executioner; Heavy Laser Destroyer, Icarus Rocket Pod

x2

 

1,993pts

 

[Lemondish]

You can further mitigate that short range by boosting their mobility with a single Aggressor. Then you also have a pretty strong additional melee threat added to the unit. Sure, it's a handful of non-SIA bolter shots you're trading for, but he's still more effective against all targets than 3 SIA shots, and he boosts the number of other hits by 33% when advancing.

 

I'm curious about your choice of supporting elements - particularly the Repulsors. They're great, but unlike the normal marine lists you can't get the better Chapter Master bubble and they don't benefit from any of the DW specific buffs outside of stratagems. 

[Boyadventurer]

Yes to the alt bolt rifle choices, SIA boosts both very nicely and I have no inkling to run standard bolt rifles at this point. Like Lemondish said, the addition of even a single aggressor helps a lot too, no penalty for advancing with the autos and no penalty for moving with the stalkers, which helps with mobility a lot.

 

That said, if we get bolter discipline back with SIA, that will make a case for the standard rifle again (though I think the other two would still be very useful)

[momerathe]

Yeah, the Aggressors are a good shout; this is not a finalised list by any means, just a proof of concept really.

 

 

I'm curious about your choice of supporting elements - particularly the Repulsors. They're great, but unlike the normal marine lists you can't get the better Chapter Master bubble and they don't benefit from any of the DW specific buffs outside of stratagems. 

 

No deep reason - I have the models and I think they look cool ;). The other version of this list had a Leviathan and two ven. dreads (and something else, I forget), but adding some mechanised elements fits my mental image of what an elite special forces detachment looks like.

[zero88]

The core of the list I'm currently working on is a Watch Master and three squads of:

 

Intercessor Sergeant: Power Fist, Auto Bolt Rifle

4x Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle

Aggressor: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets

Inceptor: Plasma Executioner's

 

They are 192pts each.. maybe a little bit expensive for some but on the charge the squad delivers 8 Power Fist swings, and besides the Auto Bolt Rifle/Aggressor combo that is well known the Inceptor delivers what would be the equivalent of the plasma/combi-plasma Tactical Squads usually field. It's a very versatile build IMO

[Irbis]

Why not use standard Inceptor, though? Plasma on them is rather bad unless you have source of 1 rerolls, and even then, point for point, bolter Inceptor is better against most targets. Keeps the squad cheaper, and might pay off in the future when someone more competent writes Codex DW and gives all bolt weapons SIA...

[Mr4Minutes]

I feel Bolter Discipline is more reliably a boost to storm bolters.

On bolt rifles it’ll help, but I don’t usually use bolt rifles for long range shooting.

 

I’ve been using all 3 bolt rifle types lately. I’ve got the 5 bolt rifle/ 5 hellblaster squad. I like the bolt rifle in this squad because the rapid fire range is the same. Also, I usually use the +1 to wound strat when shooting this squad. When combined with vengeance rounds you can be wounding on 4s or 5s at ap-3 which can help strip an extra wound.

 

I find an aggressor can go a long way in an 8-9 man stalker bolt rifle squad. Being able to move and shoot without penalty helps with hiding them out of LOS or just repositioning mid game.

 

And of course the intergressor squad. But that’s been talked about a plenty.

 

I prefer using the bolt inceptor over plasma as well. I find the premium cost of plasma too high myself. The hellblasters also get an additional ap- which I find more useful for the points.

[Prot]

Why not use standard Inceptor, though? Plasma on them is rather bad unless you have source of 1 rerolls, and even then, point for point, bolter Inceptor is better against most targets. Keeps the squad cheaper, and might pay off in the future when someone more competent writes Codex DW and gives all bolt weapons SIA...

 

I do know that vehicles are usually my issue. My standard has become a deepstriking squad with a single Plasma Inceptor. It always overcharges and I've never felt that it was the wrong choice. Especially with how split fire works in 8th and rerolls are pretty easy to get to. 

 

I've never been a fan of the melta gun. It just never works for me. So my lists normally have a smattering of dread type range power, the infantry largely has to pick off the remaining wounds and Plasma is pretty good for that.

[Irbis]

 

Why not use standard Inceptor, though? Plasma on them is rather bad unless you have source of 1 rerolls, and even then, point for point, bolter Inceptor is better against most targets. Keeps the squad cheaper, and might pay off in the future when someone more competent writes Codex DW and gives all bolt weapons SIA...

 

I do know that vehicles are usually my issue. My standard has become a deepstriking squad with a single Plasma Inceptor. It always overcharges and I've never felt that it was the wrong choice. Especially with how split fire works in 8th and rerolls are pretty easy to get to. 

 

I've never been a fan of the melta gun. It just never works for me. So my lists normally have a smattering of dread type range power, the infantry largely has to pick off the remaining wounds and Plasma is pretty good for that.

What melta gun? I don't believe I mentioned any?

 

As for vehicles, I was talking about take-all-comer squad. One plasma will do little against vehicles, IMO, if you want to deal with anything heavier I'd just take either all plasma Inceptor squad or all plasma vanguard veterans (who are ironically cheaper per plasma shot, if shorter ranged and less durable, but that doesn't really matter in suicide squad). Once you mass firepower, you can also justify buffing characters and stratagems, who also become much better by proxy as then you're getting the most bang for your Imperial Thrones.

[Prot]

Whoa, no one is accusing you of anything... The ‘meltagun’ is just a generic reference to giving a squad an AP boost, or anti tank all around skill set.  Back in the day, I probably would have left out plasma, and left that role to deepstriking vets with Combi melta. 

 

As for vehicles, I too am talking about a take all comer squad. Like I said one plasma is a great finisher. I don’t make squad designs in a fish bowl. I seem to have a lot more success thinking of the total effect of the army even on a squad based level. 

 

Plus I’ve found the over charged plasma is a great, well rounded weapon for the Inceptor for a few things... elite stuff like Termies, or you get the drop on a character and want to soften him up... perhaps Nurglings (you are preventing FnP rolls), skulking Primaris trying to get Engineers in ITC, etc, etc. 

 

Again this isn’t a ‘math’ answer. I confess I’ve never been a fan of math hammer. My advice is almost 100 percent coming from my actual play experience at fairly competitive levels. 

 

I also drop them into Hellblaster squads attached to the Boltrifle dudes. It really becomes a great all around threat. I’d say I have trouble taking that squad out of my lists the most. Just they way it makes your opponent play differently knowing you have this extremely high threat, ObSec squad in your back pocket gets you some mileage in other areas of the game. 

 

Again this is obviously just my own findings.... As far as Aggressors. For quite a long time I ran Stalkers or Assault Bolters as I sprinted across the field. Just another really fun, flexible unit. 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Prot