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New AdMech questions


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#26
brother_b

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Onagers, go big, or don't go.

 

I have two, with one waiting to be built. I've used a proxy though. With three of them they can put out healthy daka, they're tough, and attract fire. They're just super swingy. Sometimes it's great, sometimes it's horrid.

 

This is a dice game, though, so variance happens. I don't really care either way, as I love the model. I trust my Tech Priests have placated the Machine Spirit every time we take the field... and as such the Neutron guns will find their mark.

 

Cheers!


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#27
MajorNese

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Onagers, go big, or don't go.

 

I have two, with one waiting to be built. I've used a proxy though. With three of them they can put out healthy daka, they're tough, and attract fire. They're just super swingy. Sometimes it's great, sometimes it's horrid.

I've had 3 for ages. The laser is swingy indeed, but at least double stubber is reliable. 

 

But tough? Nah, not really. They don't die instantly with at least an invul, but against any opponent with normal levels of AT, they will melt over the first few rounds.

It's skitarii design philosophy - they are not as throwaway as guard, but it's still necessary to spend them to achieve something.


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#28
DeStinyFiSh

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I too think Onagers are pretty tough for their points. Not just because of the 5++ reroll 1s when teamed up, but also the 2+ save thanks to Shroudpsalm which is pretty rare for vehicles. In addition all of our HQs can repair them, Stygies and Lucius Forgeworld Dogmas can make them even tougher. It is by far not unkillable, but again, for under 110 points with either Neutron or Icarus I think they are still a solid pick.

However, vs everything <T8 I think the Skorpius with Ferrumite performs better for just 7 more points. A little less durable (inv missing but 1 more wound), but faster, extra missile launcher and 1 more stubber.



#29
MajorNese

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The issue with Onagers is T7 and an invul that won't help in any way against the usual autocannon profile. Neutron laser equivalents are rather rare in my area, since primaris are a thing most people went for S7/S8 AP-2/3 2D stuff - Astartes with autocannons/plasma, or whatever other faction's equivalent. If the onagers had T8 it would reduce damage considerably, but an invul that doesn't trigger most of the time won't change much. And thanks to certain vehicle-heavy lists and most people playing Astartes/primaris anyway, people bring a damn lot of that stuff. So yes, I'm not too excited about its reliability, but at least it got consistently cheaper.

 

For the Ferrumite vs. Neutron, we already did the math on release. Factoring in the disruptor missiles, the ferrumite will outperform the neutron laser against all targets - sometimes clearly, sometimes just barely.


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#30
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Onagers are a beautiful defining unit for Admech. I just think like many units they feel like they were designed in 7 th for rules. Ther Neutron is a great example.

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#31
MajorNese

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A lot of units were designed for 7th edition, but rules got scrapped "streamlined" for 8th edition to the point of uselessness. Onagers in particular could have retained their squadron rule with stacking invul, considering how hard the Rule of 3 impacts our already limited selection.

 

Haywire doesn't wound/penetrate vehicles in most cases, Infiltrators became slow and only got an entirely ignorable debuff, and let's not talk about ruststalkers...


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#32
Black_Knight

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Deepstriking Breachers... I remember!


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#33
Magos Takatus

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The Doctrina Imperatives in 7th looked really fun. It's a shame I was such a slow painter and didn't get an army out in time. 


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#34
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Infiltrators are fantastic, as are Kastelan Robots in Combination with Kataphron Destroyers, in my own experience.

The Scorpius Tanks are currently being assembled but I expect them to become important units in my army.

I use a single Dune Crawler with Neutron Laser, and it's a bit swingy. If you want to go down the route of this unit take it in multiples, it also unlocks a defensive boost.

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#35
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I appreciate all the advice and input. I've only seen a couple mentions for the kataphron, how do they do?

#36
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Currently Breachers are a reasonably cheap road block that can do some damage to vehicles and in close combat, but Oh My! I hope you have a lot of spare income to get the 12-15 models people use :S

 

Destroyers are all over the place right now, the Plasma are good but you need at least 6+ otherwise they are easily wiped out. Using the Servitor maniple in Vigilus Defiant is a must to refresh losses and give them a 5+ fnp.

 

I like to use Destroyers and pair them with Robots using the stratagem to help with hitting. Here's hoping for April and some changes.


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#37
MajorNese

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Yeah, what Black_Knight said.

 

Breachers are nice as an affordable roadblock (which pairs nicely with Shroudpsalm and Acquisition At Any Cost), but the torsion cannon is overly expensive for one unreliable shot. Heavy arc rifle is okay against primaris, but its intended target (vehicles) are hard to wound with just a 5+. Not like back in 7th, where a single squad of 4 would kill a Land Raider in one go.

 

Destroyers...grav was brilliant back in 7th edition, but now it just doesn't wound vehicles reliably. The strat that marines got to fix that relies on grav-amplifiers, which are simply not on our version of the cannon, so I'd guess that we won't get the same strat to fix grav. Against marines/primaris it's a lawnmower though.

 

Plasma seems the way to go - wounds anything reliably with overcharge, and any +1 to hit (Daedalosus, Vigilus detachment strat, Destroyers+Kastelan strat) eliminate the risk. Combine two of those and a Dominus, and you hit on that nice rerollable 2+. If the unit is larger, you might stack these blanket buffs onto more models at the same time, but it does get expensive in cash and points.

At that cost, use the servitor maniple, then increase the invul to 5++, then hope for an opportunity for Acquisition At Any Cost. While T5 is nice, a 4+ armour means nothing in the age of astartes doctrines.

 

Also, a large unit of Destroyers is a prime candidate for the Infoslave Skull strat - targeting nearby deep strikers with a heap of plasma and phosphor should thin the ranks quite nicely, even if they won't hit that much on just a 5+.


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#38
DanPesci

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Yeah, what Black_Knight said.

 

Breachers are nice as an affordable roadblock (which pairs nicely with Shroudpsalm and Acquisition At Any Cost), but the torsion cannon is overly expensive for one unreliable shot. Heavy arc rifle is okay against primaris, but its intended target (vehicles) are hard to wound with just a 5+. Not like back in 7th, where a single squad of 4 would kill a Land Raider in one go.

 

 

 

Agreed arc rifles aren't as good as in 7th when we had proper haywire (and torsion is useless). But as a cheap all round weapon arc rifles are awesome.

 

The amount of times I've snuck a couple of wounds through on a vehicle and then rolled high on the damage is pretty silly.

 

They can't fully be relied upon for anti tank due to the S6 as you say...but 99% of the time i fire them after my 3 neutron onagers and they finish off what the onagers started.

 

Had 2 games against my mates imperial guard this weekend and the breacher/onager combo did some serious work.

 

In the second game i made about 7 5++ saves with my onagers over the first two turns (3 times rerolling 1s into 5s).

 

With the stygies -1 to hit, 6 leman russ and 2 basilisks turn 1 only managed to kill 1.5 onagers. Admittedly this was good rolling on my part. But thats what I love with the onager, if you DO roll good, they will outshoot/outlast a skorpius (despite it being shootier on paper - plus its a way cooler model for me ha)

 

(for those interested, I won both games, with my mate conceding in turn 3 both games - in both my 2 breacher units took hold of the mid-table and refused to die/let go - GLORY FOR THE OMNISSIAH).


Edited by DanPesci, 10 February 2020 - 05:53 PM.

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#39
SufficientAnonymity

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Folks - I'm thinking of getting into AdMech later this year to have a bit of a change from painting Templars. I'd like to keep my financial outlay to a minimum but still have a viable, fieldable 1000pts force. How's picking up two starter sets and a Knight sound?



#40
Black_Knight

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The starter sets will get you far but the Knight is a bit of wasted cost if you want a save money"competative" force, as in what a lot of people are turning to right now.  The model is great but you would get a lot more out of a few Skorpious tanks. Then again its a giant robot so this is down to you.

 

You can make a Batallion with two starters sets but you will be stuck with only three Heavy slots and if you make a Spearhead you will be command point starved. If you can get another HQ then you can have both, the enginseer is a cheap purchase and will open up both detachments.

 

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [25 PL, 413pts] ++

+ HQ +

Tech-Priest Dominus [7 PL, 80pts]: Macrostubber, Volkite Blaster

+ Heavy Support +

Skorpius Disintegrator [6 PL, 111pts]: Belleros Energy Cannon, 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber

Skorpius Disintegrator [6 PL, 111pts]: Belleros Energy Cannon, 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber

Skorpius Disintegrator [6 PL, 111pts]: Belleros Energy Cannon, 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [45 PL, 538pts] ++

+ HQ +

Tech-Priest Dominus [7 PL, 80pts]: Macrostubber, Volkite Blaster

Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 30pts]

+ Troops +

Skitarii Rangers [7 PL, 54pts]
. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle
. 4x Skitarii Ranger
. Skitarii Ranger (Transuranic Arquebus): Transuranic Arquebus

Skitarii Rangers [7 PL, 54pts]
. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle
. 4x Skitarii Ranger
. Skitarii Ranger (Transuranic Arquebus): Transuranic Arquebus

Skitarii Vanguards [7 PL, 102pts]
. 7x Skitarii Vanguard
. 2x Skitarii Vanguard (Plasma Caliver): 2x Plasma Caliver
. Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

+ Heavy Support +

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 109pts]: Broad Spectrum Data-tether, Cognis Heavy Stubber
. Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 109pts]: Broad Spectrum Data-tether, Cognis Heavy Stubber
. Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser

++ Total: [70 PL, 951pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

 

If you want a big giant robot then add it to the Battalion as an Imperial Knight Super heavy Aux detachment with your pick of Knight household but it works best if its a Mechanicus one. Also the Knight does go well with other armies if it has the CP. You can just use the Mechanicus codex but you should be fielding it via the Imperial Knight codex(Another purchase).

 

Although in a few months this will all be completely wrong with the ton of new units.

 

Prices below are with -20% online seller discount.

 

2x Starter(£48x2 = £96) + Knight("Knight Preceptor Canis Rex" which contains all options)(£75 wish I knew about online retailers before I brought mine)

 

2x Starter(£48x2 = £96) + 3x Skorpious(You can swap any of these out for some robots at the same price)(£36x3 = £108) + Enginseer(£16)


Edited by Black_Knight, 12 February 2020 - 11:44 AM.

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#41
SufficientAnonymity

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The starter sets will get you far but the Knight is a bit of wasted cost if you want a save money"competative" force, as in what a lot of people are turning to right now.  The model is great but you would get a lot more out of a few Skorpious tanks. Then again its a giant robot so this is down to you.

 

You can make a Batallion with two starters sets but you will be stuck with only three Heavy slots and if you make a Spearhead you will be command point starved. If you can get another HQ then you can have both, the enginseer is a cheap purchase and will open up both detachments.

 

2x Starter(£48x2 = £96) + Knight("Knight Preceptor Canis Rex" which contains all options)(£75 wish I knew about online retailers before I brought mine)

 

Thank you for your help smile.png

 

I'm leaning towards the Knight and two starter sets, because whilst I would get more out of some Skorpiuses, I'd really like to paint something massive. I accept I'll be CP starved initially, but if I enjoy working on it I might expand out to a 2000pts force, where there'll be plenty of room for picking up command points and the cool new stuff that's coming.


Edited by SufficientAnonymity, 12 February 2020 - 11:50 AM.


#42
Black_Knight

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I fully understand, I remember the pull towards the Knight model, it is a great "miniature" and if I didn't already have one I would probably pick the same. I would definitely recommend getting the knight codex then as the rules are a lot better, you do not need it but there's a lot more options with regards to Warlord traits, stratagems, etc.

 

The most used version of the knight right now is the Crusader(double gun) as the Castellan was hit with the points increase. Also don't hold it back run it up the field into stompy range for full affect(unless its a smash captain).

 

What you have planned will be fine though and definitely fun. When you are ready to expand just post a thread and we will be happy to discuss the next stage, which hopefully will involve some dogs with head flamers in April!


Edited by Black_Knight, 12 February 2020 - 12:05 PM.

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#43
SufficientAnonymity

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I fully understand, I remember the pull towards the Knight model, it is a great "miniature" and if I didn't already have one I would probably pick the same. I would definitely recommend getting the knight codex then as the rules are a lot better, you do not need it but there's a lot more options with regards to Warlord traits, stratagems, etc.

 

The most used version of the knight right now is the Crusader(double gun) as the Castellan was hit with the points increase. Also don't hold it back run it up the field into stompy range for full affect(unless its a smash captain).

 

What you have planned will be fine though and definitely fun. When you are ready to expand just post a thread and we will be happy to discuss the next stage, which hopefully will involve some dogs with head flamers in April!

 

I am very excited about the dogs - their unveiling was what finally pushed me to start an AdMech project. I was thinking of magnetising the Knight so I can run it as a Paladin or Crusader.



#44
Black_Knight

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Yeah definitely magnetise it if you are happy doing it, In the last year or two the "Best" knight has changed quite a bit.


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#45
Gaz1858

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Most admech and knights can be magnetised fairly easily for weapon swaps. Pretty sure there aresome instructions on youtube
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