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2000pt Competitive BA Brigade: Decapitation Strike


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#1
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Yea, a Brigade. Can you believe it?

 

While not specifically meant to be for ITC formats, that format certainly influenced the building process. 

 

 

Blood Angels Brigade 2000pts.

15CP

-3CP Armory of Baal

-1CP Hero of the Chapter

-2CP Death Visions of Sanguinius x 2

9CP for game time

 

 

HQ:

Captain

-jump pack

-storm shield

-thunder hammer

-Relic: ​The Angel's Wing

-1CP: Hero of the Chapter: Gift of Foresight OR Artisan of War

-1CP: Death Visions of Sanguinius

 

Chaplain

-jump pack

-power fist

-Special Issue Wargear: Icon of the Angel

-Warlord: Soulwarden OR Artisan of War depending on matchup and/or whether or not the Captain takes Artisan of War

-Invocation of Destruction

-Canticle of Hate

-1CP: Death Visions of Sanguinius

 

Chief Librarian Mephiston (Primaris)

-1. Quickening

-3. Shield of Sanguinius OR 2. Unleash Rage

-6. Wings of Sanguinius

 

TROOPS:
Scouts x 5

-combat knife + bolt pistol x 4

-Sgt chainsword + bolter

 

Scouts x 5

-combat knife + bolt pistol x 4

-Sgt chainsword + bolter

 

Incursors x 5

-Haywire Mine

 

Incursors x 5

-Haywire Mine

 

Incursors x 5

-Haywire Mine

 

Incursors x 5

-Haywire Mine

 

ELITES:

Death Company x 5

-jump packs

-bolter + chainsword x 4

-bolter + power fist x 1

 

Sanguinary Ancient

-eeath mask

-encarmine Sword

-plasma pistol

-Relic: ​Standard of Sacrifice

 

Sanguinary Guard x 10

-death masks

-angelus boltguns + power fists x 10

 

Vanguard Veterans x 5

-jump packs

-chainsword + storm shields x 4

-Sgt. thunder hammer + inferno pistol

 

FAST ATTACK:

Suppressors x 3

 

Suppressors x 3

 

Suppressors x 3

 

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Eliminators x 3

-bolt sniper rifles x 3

 

Eliminators x 3

-bolt sniper rifles x 3

 

Eliminators x 3

-bolt sniper rifles x 3

 

 

List is very mobile and in-your-face, with all Troops able to infiltrate to start on OBJ or right against enemy DZ. 

 

It also basically doesn't bother with heavy shooting, with the Suppressors there as much to milk their mobility, range, and chance of turning off Overwatch as to do any real damage. 

 

 

It's a "Decapitation Strike" because the Eliminators and Characters are there to take out enemy buffers as soon as possible and hamper the enemy that way....even if he deploys them out of harm's way, that is a bit of a win since it means I've seized the mental initiative and before he's even on the board he is playing into my hands. The VV are actually there to tie down characters and/or scary melee units to pin them in place for follow-ups by the characters. 

 

I have been leaning towards a vanilla "Smash Chaplain" of late since he trades out more Litanies for more all-purpose buffs: the combo of +2" charge Canticle of Hate with the re-roll charges for all units from Icon of the Angel makes him a bit one note, but that note is the one thing we BA want to be doing as much as possible: charging. 

 

I'm torn between 1x10 or 2x5 (or 2x6) SG to spread things out a bit. I'm also torn on whether to bring 2x5 VV or keep 1x5 VV and 1x5 DC. The DC's job is to bully cheap enemy OBJ-holders or to dog pile locked-down units to provide extra punch...if (emphasis) they can survive to T3 they can be absolutely brutal for a 99pt unit (chainsword dudes are 6A AP-1 each). They are also a bit of a distraction carnifex since despite them not being anywhere near as good in 8th as they ought to be, opponents are still terrified of them. At least their reputation does damage. 

 

Incursors are my favorite Troops right now, hands-down. IMO, there is 0 downside to them at all. I like to bring HW mines for the option of gumming up the works each turn, even though they've never really been that impressive. My last game a HW mine netted me a free VP since my opponent through a lone-surviving Sgt at one to clear the way for his scarier units. <smiling shrug> I'll take it. 

 


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#2
Majkhel

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I like it. Both eliminators and suppressors are great distraction for the enemy while also being able to seriously dish out hurt. Especially with the captain nearby.
What would you say for dropping one mine and exchanging Sanguinary Ancient for a Company Ancient? The ability to fight upon death could work for Suppressors early on and later for CQC units.
And how would you play against DS factions?
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#3
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I like it. Both eliminators and suppressors are great distraction for the enemy while also being able to seriously dish out hurt. Especially with the captain nearby.
What would you say for dropping one mine and exchanging Sanguinary Ancient for a Company Ancient? The ability to fight upon death could work for Suppressors early on and later for CQC units.
And how would you play against DS factions?


Company Ancient used to be my banner of choice, but with the jump version relegated to Index, he’s now more expensive than the Sang Anc. The SA also has decent wargear, stats, and gets the SG Re-rolls as well. And the re-rolls to Wounds in combat is a bit more worthwhile to me. Only getting to fight before dieing on a 4+ isn’t worth it to me in comparison. Again, I used to be a huge advocate for the Company Ancient, but in leaner times I’ve gone a different direction.

I get the idea on dropping a haywire mine, but I like to keep like units built identically. It’s kind of a thing for me, but I find it helps me speed up my play and also be more modular rather than spending brainpower on the “the melta guys” or the “plasma guys” et al. Likewise, I find having multiples of the same unit build helps me play a bit more aggressively <shrug> we all have our own things.
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#4
Debauchery101

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Try play testing with a swap of your suppressors with say
244 pts
1 suppressor squad
2 land speeders w/hvy bolters & assault cannons

Or

270 pts
2 squads of 3 bikers sgt/fist & 2 gravs
1 squad of 2 attack bikes

So I only suggest this because I took a few L's and had a few close calls due to auspex scan and people taking a lot more AA guns like stalkers, hyperios and always taking every AA upgrade on the primaris marine vehicles as well as knights carapace Autocannons.

The majority of your list has 'fly'

weapons that get bonuses are usually quite cheap and have stronger profiles than other weapons of similar cost.

You cant avoid every overwatch against anyone with a moderately savvy player and getting stuffed with 5+ overwatch AA weapons that are usually in Autocannon lethality range can really mess things up.

Land speeders with hvy bolters and assault cannons are not as favorable as suppressor's autocannons but they have t5 and the same wounds but dont lose shots when damaged.

Bikers get around that decently. I prefer them to land speeders most of the time but because I use gravs I play them aggressive. They're low profile, faster, can take a fist/hammer and they have really good short range firepower since they basically can take extra weapons. You're probably going to want to move ahead into your tactical doctrine since most of your army has rapid fire and assault weapons.

Those angelus bolters get real nasty at ap2.

A couple other things may help to try out is trade your ancients plasma pistol for an inferno if you plan to get him into combat or leave him with the angelus bolter. You dont want to overcharge with it. Fragging your 4 wound model for 1 extra shot sucks.

Keep pistols on your death company. Yeah bolter discipline is great but sometimes you dont want to spray down a bunch of models and potentially miss a charge when regardless of what shooting they can potentially do, they'll definitely do with HTH. If they're stuck in combat when your next turn comes then they can still shoot pistols.

Also why take the regular chaplain when lemartes is better? You should actually play less aggressive with chaplains. His main role is to buff. DeathCo only have LD7.

You will want him with your DeathCo so they can use his leadership and get reroll to charge. A power fist option ..meh

Youll most likely be better to throw those vanguards into the DeathCo and take 2 hammers at least in a 10 man unit flat damage 3 is excellent and will help you calculate your effectiveness in game. D3 = 66% chance to do less than 3 dmg, random damage vs units with multi wound models can just say put a 1 wound hit on a model then absorb a 3 dmg hit. You dont want to have them sponge mdg higher than their profile.

I do use VVs with shields. But usually they're in drop pods or transports with shooty guys to screen...cheap astra psykers, 1k sons sorcs and cheap scout sniper spam will chew them up with mortal wounds

Take snipers on your scouts if you're going to field 4 units of incursors. You'll appreciate 2 to 3 mortals to characters everytime they shoot


I do like your theme of using redundancy. I favor that theme as well. But there is a dynamic balance between redundancy and durability. Which is affected by how you can apply each of those characteristics.

Ie...if you have lots of redundant units but they arent all able to saturate the opponent with threat and options to engage because say hes maneuvered into cover or out of range...or say you only have half of your reserve HTH units on the board...you are drastically less durable
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Death Guard 3500 pts
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Daemons 4000 pts
Salamanders 3000 pts
Necrons 2000 pts

#5
Majkhel

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I get your idea, Indy. As you say - this suits you. And obviousluly you did very conscious choices with the list. Especially considering you chose the Brigade as your platform and it's not very flexible. I can't really fault your thinking.

Changing Plasma for Inferno pistol seems easy Debauchery, but it's not if you check how tight the list is terms of weapon options points. It's either plasma or Angelus boltgun. Unless you start changing other things in other units as well

Edited by Majkhel, 31 January 2020 - 08:28 AM.

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#6
The Unseen

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I like it.
It's not the same as my list, but it's the same idea.
Though I like mm attack bikes over suppressors, and quad mortars rather than eliminators.
Though I would trade the generic chaplain for Astorath, he's just so much better for basically same cost.
You'd lose the icon, but I think astorath and 2 cp back is better.
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#7
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Try play testing with a swap of your suppressors with say
244 pts
1 suppressor squad
2 land speeders w/hvy bolters & assault cannons

Or

270 pts
2 squads of 3 bikers sgt/fist & 2 gravs
1 squad of 2 attack bikes

So I only suggest this because I took a few L's and had a few close calls due to auspex scan and people taking a lot more AA guns like stalkers, hyperios and always taking every AA upgrade on the primaris marine vehicles as well as knights carapace Autocannons.

The majority of your list has 'fly'

weapons that get bonuses are usually quite cheap and have stronger profiles than other weapons of similar cost.

You cant avoid every overwatch against anyone with a moderately savvy player and getting stuffed with 5+ overwatch AA weapons that are usually in Autocannon lethality range can really mess things up.

Land speeders with hvy bolters and assault cannons are not as favorable as suppressor's autocannons but they have t5 and the same wounds but dont lose shots when damaged.

Bikers get around that decently. I prefer them to land speeders most of the time but because I use gravs I play them aggressive. They're low profile, faster, can take a fist/hammer and they have really good short range firepower since they basically can take extra weapons. You're probably going to want to move ahead into your tactical doctrine since most of your army has rapid fire and assault weapons.

Those angelus bolters get real nasty at ap2.

A couple other things may help to try out is trade your ancients plasma pistol for an inferno if you plan to get him into combat or leave him with the angelus bolter. You dont want to overcharge with it. Fragging your 4 wound model for 1 extra shot sucks.

Keep pistols on your death company. Yeah bolter discipline is great but sometimes you dont want to spray down a bunch of models and potentially miss a charge when regardless of what shooting they can potentially do, they'll definitely do with HTH. If they're stuck in combat when your next turn comes then they can still shoot pistols.

Also why take the regular chaplain when lemartes is better? You should actually play less aggressive with chaplains. His main role is to buff. DeathCo only have LD7.

You will want him with your DeathCo so they can use his leadership and get reroll to charge. A power fist option ..meh

Youll most likely be better to throw those vanguards into the DeathCo and take 2 hammers at least in a 10 man unit flat damage 3 is excellent and will help you calculate your effectiveness in game. D3 = 66% chance to do less than 3 dmg, random damage vs units with multi wound models can just say put a 1 wound hit on a model then absorb a 3 dmg hit. You dont want to have them sponge mdg higher than their profile.

I do use VVs with shields. But usually they're in drop pods or transports with shooty guys to screen...cheap astra psykers, 1k sons sorcs and cheap scout sniper spam will chew them up with mortal wounds

Take snipers on your scouts if you're going to field 4 units of incursors. You'll appreciate 2 to 3 mortals to characters everytime they shoot


I do like your theme of using redundancy. I favor that theme as well. But there is a dynamic balance between redundancy and durability. Which is affected by how you can apply each of those characteristics.

Ie...if you have lots of redundant units but they arent all able to saturate the opponent with threat and options to engage because say hes maneuvered into cover or out of range...or say you only have half of your reserve HTH units on the board...you are drastically less durable

 

I appreciate the feedback. What's "HTH?" Hand-To-Hand? Couple thoughts in response:

 

-I am still considering swapping out the Suppressors for bikes...but it would be 3x3 Scout bikes in this case. In my opinion, Scout bikes are one of the best units in the game (if you can get ahold of them) with the amount of mobility and dakka they pack for their cost. I do not find regular bikes as efficient.

 

-In other lists I've done 3x1 Attack bikes (37pts, baby!) as cheap ways to fill a Brigade and are amazing at spreading out to prevent enemy Deep Striking. 

 

-On both of the above accounts, I think Suppressors synergize with what I am doing a bit better, and, beyond the potential to turn off Overwatch, the kicker for me is the Smoke Grenades. Being -1 To Hit in the Turn you advance (w/ +1) is an option I want have in my back pocket.

 

-Even more so now with TacDoc around, I prefer bolters on the DC since it gives them some ranged punch. Since as far back as the Index days of 8th Ed, I've been an advocate of  "John Woo'ing" shooting at Target A while charging Target B (couldn't do that in 7th Ed!). It's rare, but it can also help when fighting other melee armies like Orkz and 'Nids: using jump packs to stay up high and plink away before charging in again.

 

-I used to go 1x15 DC bomb, but more and more I've gone towards MSU with them. Spreads the hurt (on both sides) out more. I feel TH DC die too fast to be worth it unless you have a delivery platform (like a Stormraven) or are deliberately holding until the perfect DS opportunity arises (which is rare this deep into 8th with the reputation of Smash Capt). 

 

-I've debated making the Vanguard Vets Company Vets w/ jump packs via Index, but they are more expensive. Otherwise they are a VV+1. 

 

-I am less worried about armies with bonuses against <Fly>. It's rare that armies bring that much, and if I do go up against such a hard counter, than it's on me to adapt and improvise and find yet an extra mm of Line-of-Sight blocking terrain. Crimson Hunter Exarchs and Iron Hands Stormhawk spam will certainly hurt, but you can't build a list immune to everything, so I am willing to play around those particular vulnerabilities. 

 

-I don't like Sniper Scouts outside of casual games....too unreliable for my taste. Bolt sniper Eliminators are what a sniper unit "should" be with guns that do damage no matter what, with the MW's being a true bonus. In my personal experience it's not worth "fishing" for MW's with Scout Snipers unless you're bringing 4+ units of them, but at that point they are not cost efficient for what they do. YMMV

-If Land Speeders did not have a penalty for moving and shooting Heavy weapons, I'd be more interested in them. As of now, by only interest would be in a unit of 3 w/ the Index build of dual heavy flamers for roasting away screens....but that is not cost efficient for what I am doing here. Secondly, from a psychological standpoint, as the sole <Vehicles> in the list, they would be priority targets for AT shooting. Not having anything like them forces the opponent to have to choose what to shoot big guns at instead. Threat saturation....

 

-...which is basically the whole idea of this list. The Incursors are key since they put 2W 2+ in cover bodies in his face that while not overly-intimidating on their own, can still crash enemy lines while soaking up a disproportionate amount of fire and can turn off guns once locked in (regardless of any damage they do or do not do in melee). 

 

 

I like it.
It's not the same as my list, but it's the same idea.
Though I like mm attack bikes over suppressors, and quad mortars rather than eliminators.
Though I would trade the generic chaplain for Astorath, he's just so much better for basically same cost.
You'd lose the icon, but I think astorath and 2 cp back is better.

 

Yes, the Astorath dilemma. 

 

I've gone the direction of the vanilla Chaplain for his universal reliability. His role is to buff charges with Canticle of Hate and Icon of the Angel. Simple as that. His secondary abilities are to possibly add a third Deny the Witch (with Adamantium Will WLT) depending on matchup and/or to be upgraded to "Smash Chaplain" with DVoS. The power fist is on him to allow better use of that as well as to possibly get D:1+D3 from Master Crafted if Capt Smashy does not use that. I am a huge fan of modularity with lists and planning, especially the things that you technically do not have to decide until the battle. 

Astorath gives more litanies and has overall better stats, plus his free Mass of Doom...but in comparison the vanilla Chaplain I've built does one thing and does it exceptionally well: ensure my punchy dudes get to charge in order to punch. It's somewhat addition by subtraction; Astorath has far more potential, but this Chap has greater net reliability for what I want to do. Hence the call after an agonizing decision process. 


Call me Indy. It's less syllables.

 

 

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#8
The Unseen

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You can have astorath chant the same litany, and then another one, including the charge buff one to sorta replace the icon, and then you have 2 more CP to reroll charges, rather than it being an aura.

Also, doesn't Astorath have soulwarden as his trait?

Not disagreeing really that the generic chaplain is great if you want exactly those things, but Astorath also does those things, and *more* on top.

I might have to give incursors another shot
I tried them a few times and wished I'd just brought scouts and therefore had more pts for other things when I did.
But sample size was very small

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#9
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Yes Astorath’S WLT is Soulwarden. The regular Chappy can choose to take that same one or so,thing different should you wish. That option to choose a WLT is one of the reasons I went vanilla. And yes, Asto can give the +2” charge buff and buff them some other way....but then you miss out on the free passive ability to re-roll charges for all friendly units, not just DC like Lemartes. Even despite monumental efforts on my part to consciously spend less CP each game, I still find we never ever have enough. So any opportunity to not use CP on command re-rolls is a good thing in my book.

 

Although it hasn’t been that many game for me since Blood of Baal dropped, I also found that I tried to do too much with Astorath b/c he could throw out so many buffs: I would try to buff Shooty units and then also buff standby units. Nothing wrong with that, but for me and my play style I found it to be a distraction. 
 

Troops especially I feel like you need 3x of a given type to get a return. A single CQC Scout squad, for example, is just popcorn to the enemy no matter who you face. But 4x CQC scout units crashing his gates T1? Now you have a strategy. 


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#10
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Here is an alternate version I've been toying around with:

 

Blood Angels Brigade 2000pts

 

HQ:

Captain

-jump pack

 

Blood Angels Brigade 2000pts.

15CP

-3CP Armory of Baal

-1CP Hero of the Chapter

-2CP Death Visions of Sanguinius x 2

9CP for game time

 

 

HQ:

Captain

-jump pack

-storm shield

-thunder hammer

-Relic: ​The Angel's Wing

-1CP: Hero of the Chapter: Gift of Foresight OR Artisan of War

-1CP: Death Visions of Sanguinius

 

Chaplain

-jump pack

-storm bolter

-Special Issue Wargear: Icon of the Angel

-Warlord: Soulwarden OR Artisan of War depending on matchup and/or whether or not the Captain takes Artisan of War

-Invocation of Destruction

-Canticle of Hate

-1CP: Death Visions of Sanguinius

 

Chief Librarian Mephiston (Primaris)

-1. Quickening

-3. Shield of Sanguinius OR 2. Unleash Rage

-6. Wings of Sanguinius

 

TROOPS:
Scouts x 5

-combat knife + bolt pistol x 4

-Sgt chainsword + bolter

 

Scouts x 5

-combat knife + bolt pistol x 4

-Sgt chainsword + bolter

 

Incursors x 5

-Haywire Mine

 

Incursors x 5

-Haywire Mine

 

Incursors x 5

-Haywire Mine

 

Incursors x 5

-Haywire Mine

 

ELITES:

Sanguinary Ancient

-power fist

-angelus boltgun

-Relic: ​Standard of Sacrifice

 

Sanguinary Guard x 6

-death masks

-angelus boltguns + power fists x 6

 

Sanguinary Guard x 5

-death masks

-angelus boltguns + power fists x 5

 

Company Veterans x 5

-jump packs (Index/Legends)

-chainsword + storm shields x 4

-Sgt. thunder hammer + inferno pistol

 

Company Veterans x 5

-jump packs (Index/Legends)

-chainsword + storm shields x 4

-Sgt. thunder hammer + inferno pistol

 

FAST ATTACK:

Scout Bikes x 3

-Sgt storm-bolter

 

Scout Bikes x 3

-Sgt storm-bolter

 

Scout Bikes x 3

-Sgt storm-bolter

 

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Eliminators x 3

-bolt sniper rifles x 3

 

Eliminators x 3

-bolt sniper rifles x 3

 

Eliminators x 3

-bolt sniper rifles x 3

 

 

Replaces Suppressors for the hyper-mobile gunboats that are Scout bikers. Scout Bike Sgt's w/ storm bolters will absolutely posterize light units in TacDoc, are mobile enough to blitz to almost any OBJ on the board, and are cheap enough to be expendable OW-eaters or flank-guards against DS. They can still do ok on the charge and will only get better if they survive to AssDoc.

 

Vanilla Chaplain drops Power Fist for a storm bolter to save some points and add just a touch more during TacDoc. Sanguinary Ancient becomes a bit more points efficient with a power fist and angelus instead of encarmine sword and plasma pistol (means I will have to build a new model... <grumble grumble grumble>. 

 

The other big change besides Scouts bikes is 2x5 Company Vets instead of 1x5 VV and 1x5 DC. The ability to soak up wounds on characters for an extra 2pts each can really make the difference in this age of Imperial Fist Eliminators et al. They still can swamp scary enemy melee units w/ SS and the Sgt still packs 5A when charging in T3+. 

 

The SG bomb has been broken up into 1x6 and 1x5 units for more MSU goodness. 

 

The thought that is running through my head would be to drop the inferno pistols on the CV Sgts for SS and maybe give the Scout Bike Sgts a PF or to get 2x6 SG or such (if the math works out). I like hiding inferno pistols on Sgts because the chance to get a lucky D:6 shot on a character is invaluable for 9pts. A "mere" Vet Sgt has the potential to do 21 wounds between 5xTH attacks and the inferno pistol. I've had great success with this sneaky combo, especially when supporting Captain Smash. 


Call me Indy. It's less syllables.

 

 

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