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Slasher956

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I'll be honest: most of the questions were never going to be answered, either because of how they were written or because that isn't an FAQ item. Particularly:

 

 

 

    Seraphim Superior wargear - Is there any reason why the supeirors wargear/weapon options are still the same as the beta codex dispite new models being sculpted with changeable arms?
    Why do the Sisters' rhino not have the option to take an additional Storm Bolter yet the Space Marines ones can take a second?

 

The Seraphim Superior Wargear options have been the same since at least the 6E e-dex, maybe longer. The changeable arms are for her two take:

* two bolt pistols

* bp/pp and chainsword/power sword

* modeled as a Zephyrim Superior with bp/power sword/pennant

 

The Rhino question is irrelevant because we're talking about two different armies.

 

 


    Have the Dominons truely lost the ability to pass their scout move on to their vehicle if they are the only unit embarked, or is this something missing from the rule?

 

Could have been better worded to:

* In previous editions of the game, and during both the Index and Beta Codex versions of Sisters, Dominions were able to transfer their Vanguard ability to their transport provided every model aboard the transport had the Vanguard rule. Was it designer intent to remove Dominion's ability to transfer their Vanguard to their transports?

 

As for the rest, the Geminae one probably does need to be answered, while:

 

 

 

If a squad generates a miracle dice from a cherub, is it blocked from using it in the same round as another unit if the generating unit is without an Simulacrum Imperialis?

 

Because of the wording, I'm not 100% sure what's trying to be asked. If it's "can a unit that's performed an Act of Faith perform another without a Similacrum?", the answer is no by RAW.

 

 

If a unit with a simulacrum imperialis uses a miracle dice, can a second unit without a simulacrum also use a miracle dice later in the same phase? Or does the unit without the simulacrum have to use their Act of Faith first? Related, due to the wording can you confirm how many Acts of Faith can be done in a single phase, is it limited to 2 or can it be more?


RAW no. You have to resolve the non-Siimilacrum unit first. This didn't need a FAQ entry.


  • Are Miracle Dice generated by enemy units being destroyed by failing a moral test and losing the last squad member(s)?
  • Are Mircale Dice generated by enemy units (inc Characters) destroying themselves due to their own rules by, for example, overcharging plasma weapons?

RAW is clear on both the answer is no.

 

 


  • Does the Sisters of Battle Codex Crusaders datasheet replace the one in the Astra Militraum codex?
  • Does the Sisters of Battle Codex Preacher datasheet replace the 'Miistorum Priest in the Astra Militarum codex?  As they have the same equipment, with the preacher having the rule Icon of the Ecclesiarchy extra dispite being 5 points cheeper
  • What makes up a Sanctum?  Is it the walls and the statue is for flavour, or both parts?  If both parts how are they deployed?  ie is it within a set distance of each other with the statue inside the semi-circle of the walls.

 

The battle sanctum rule probably won't be answered until the model is released. The other two will probably be answered in the AM codex FAQ.

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They obviously only took to answering the most pressing one about MD and the ones about their typos/inconsistencies in the codex which gave us an illegal model in the limited edition box.

 

While I expected the MD use to be one per other than charges and the fee other "multi dice" rolls, it does really hurt Faith and Fury. It should just be 1cp if you're only making one dice hit and wound. I don't think the overall strength of the codex is reduced but some strats like that become way more niche. But whatever, no major nerfs so I'll take it!

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If a squad generates a miracle dice from a cherub, is it blocked from using it in the same round as another unit if the generating unit is without an Simulacrum Imperialis?
 

Because of the wording, I'm not 100% sure what's trying to be asked. If it's "can a unit that's performed an Act of Faith perform another without a Similacrum?", the answer is no by RAW.

 

If a unit with a simulacrum imperialis uses a miracle dice, can a second unit without a simulacrum also use a miracle dice later in the same phase? Or does the unit without the simulacrum have to use their Act of Faith first? Related, due to the wording can you confirm how many Acts of Faith can be done in a single phase, is it limited to 2 or can it be more?

RAW no. You have to resolve the non-Siimilacrum unit first. This didn't need a FAQ entry.

 

I think everyone is overthinking this.

 

You get one for free, Triumph gives another within 6 inches, Simulacrum gives another to the unit carrying it.

 

I have yet to find any language in the rules that obligates you to use them in a particular order.

 

If you have found such language anywhere, point it out.

Edited by ValourousHeart
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What I was aiming for was trying to stop an flow order happening ..ie you have to activate this unit 1st as they can’t take a simulacrum (ie charge repentia 1st) then charge this battle squad....

 

Which we now do...because if we charge the battle squad with an AoF 1st we’ve used our 1 per turn....so can’t then AoF charge the repwntia

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If a squad generates a miracle dice from a cherub, is it blocked from using it in the same round as another unit if the generating unit is without an Simulacrum Imperialis?
 

Because of the wording, I'm not 100% sure what's trying to be asked. If it's "can a unit that's performed an Act of Faith perform another without a Similacrum?", the answer is no by RAW.

 

If a unit with a simulacrum imperialis uses a miracle dice, can a second unit without a simulacrum also use a miracle dice later in the same phase? Or does the unit without the simulacrum have to use their Act of Faith first? Related, due to the wording can you confirm how many Acts of Faith can be done in a single phase, is it limited to 2 or can it be more?

RAW no. You have to resolve the non-Siimilacrum unit first. This didn't need a FAQ entry.

 

I think everyone is overthinking this.

 

You get one for free, Triumph gives another within 6 inches, Simulacrum gives another to the unit carrying it.

 

I have yet to find any language in the rules that obligates you to use them in a particular order.

 

If you have found such language anywhere, point it out.

 

 

No, there's no overthinking. It's 2+2 = 4

 

 

Acts of Faith: "If your army contains at least one unit with this ability, you can perform one Act of Faith in each phase."

 

Similacrum Imperialis: If a model in this unit has a Similacrum Imperialis then once per phase you may perform one Act of Faith for this unit, even if you have already performed one or more Acts of Faith in that phase.

 

Icon of the Valorous Heart: Once per phase, you can perform one Act of Faith for a friendly unit with 6" that has the Acts of Faith ability, even if you have already performed one or more Acts of Faith this phase.

 

 

Once you perform an Act of Faith with any unit, the only units that can continue to perform Acts of Faith in a given phase are those with a Similacrum Imperialis (and this allows the original unit to perform a second AoF in the same phase) and those within 6" of the Triumph of St. Katherine - and those units may also perform an additional Act of Faith if they have Similacrums

 

Once you've performed an Act of Faith, any unit that does not have a Similacrum and is not within 6" of the Triumph must wait until the next phase to perform an Act of Faith per the text of Acts of Faith, Similacrum Imperialis, and Icon of the Valorous Heart.

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You are implying an order of operations which is not present in the text of the rules.

 

 

 

 Acts of Faith: "If your army contains at least one unit with this ability, you can perform one Act of Faith in each phase."

 

No requirement in this rule that the first act of faith you perform in a phase must be this free one.

 

 

Similacrum Imperialis: If a model in this unit has a Similacrum Imperialis then once per phase you may perform one Act of Faith for this unit, even if you have already performed one or more Acts of Faith in that phase.

 

This upgrade gives the squad carrying it an act of faith every phase, in addition to your free one.

No requirement that you must use the free one first.

 

 

Icon of the Valorous Heart: Once per phase, you can perform one Act of Faith for a friendly unit with 6" that has the Acts of Faith ability, even if you have already performed one or more Acts of Faith this phase.

 

The Triumph provides a rule very similar to the Similacrum, with the added bonus of being available as an aura.

Does not require that you use your free act of faith first.

 

Once you perform an Act of Faith with any unit, the only units that can continue to perform Acts of Faith in a given phase are those with a Similacrum Imperialis (and this allows the original unit to perform a second AoF in the same phase) and those within 6" of the Triumph of St. Katherine - and those units may also perform an additional Act of Faith if they have Similacrums

 

Once you've performed an Act of Faith, any unit that does not have a Similacrum and is not within 6" of the Triumph must wait until the next phase to perform an Act of Faith per the text of Acts of Faith, Similacrum Imperialis, and Icon of the Valorous Heart.

 

You don't have to repeat yourself, you simply have to point to the text where it says that the first act of faith you perform each phase has to be the free act of faith.

 

 

No, there's no overthinking. It's 2+2 = 4

 

Great than it should be very easy for you to point to the text that makes the first act of faith you perform count as the free one instead of one of the others.

Edited by ValourousHeart
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I'm implying nothing. The order is there in black and white.

 

 

* You're allowed one Act of Faith per phase

* Once a unit has performed an Act of Faith, no units (including the original) can perform Act of Faiths unless it meets one of the following:

A. It has a Similacrum Imperialis in the unit

B. It is within 6" of the Triumph of St. Katherine while it still has the Icon of the Valorous Heart

C. It meets both A and B

 

If you perform an Act of Faith with a unit bearing a Similacrum as your first Act of Faith in a phase:

* that unit may perform a second AoF through the Similacrum

* only units bearing Similacrums may perform Acts of Faith for the rest of the phase

* in addition, one unit within 6" of the Triumph of St. Katherine may perform an Act of Faith using the Icon of the Valorous Heart. If this is the original unit, and the unit has a Similacrum, this can allow up to 3 Acts of Faith for that unit.

 

Order absolutely matters.

 

It matters in the movement phase, because moving your units in the wrong order can have consequences against you such as not properly screening units or blocking movement/charge lanes because a model can't end its movement on top of another model.

 

It matters in the psychic phase because of increased difficulty for each casting of smite, because of Perils of the Warp, and because you may want to get your opponent to deny powers you care less about so you can attempt the ones you actually care without worrying if they might be resisted.

 

It matters in the shooting phase, both in terms of which units shoot in which order and in terms of which weapons shoot first within a unit (provided multiple profiles of weapon are firing at the same target). Your bolters might kill enough to make your flamers and meltaguns out of range. Your flamers and meltaguns might kill enough that some or all of your bolters no longer get two shots.

 

It matters in the charge phase because a larger unit or a vehicle might block off charge lanes for other units. It also matters because one unit may be more able to withstand overwatch, allowing the second unit to perform a charge without retribution.

 

It matters in the fight phase because your opponent may wish to spend CP to interrupt your charges or have abilities that lets him also fight first. It also matters once charges have fought because you might have to decide if you want Celestine to fight first so that there are less models to attack your Repentia whereas the Repentia might be able to kill more but you put Celestine at risk of being focused down before she can fight.

 

In a weird way, it also matters in the Morale phase because you might roll a 1 on a morale check, get a 1 on a miracle die, and then decide to apply that miracle die to another unit's morale.

 

So don't sit here and tell me order doesn't matter for Acts of Faith when it matters for every other mechanic in the game and simple logic/English/order of operations says "If I do A, then I cannot do A for the rest of the phase unless the unit also has B and/or C."

 

To play Acts of Faith in any other way without Games Workshop issuing some other clarification on the matter is cheating your opponent.

Edited by taikishi
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The Rhino question is irrelevant because we're talking about two different armies.

 

Plus marine Rhinos can't take two SB either unless Index is allowed, which in competitive just isn't/won't be anymore going forward.

 

In any case the GW FAQ itself was as expected. I was shaking my head at people for modifying their army set Canonesses in their impatience, when it was 100% certain that the loadout would be made legal while any modifications would then make it illegal (like if you stuck a bolter on her and removed the plasma pistol, now you're outta luck).

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Personally my biggest confusion is with the part where a unit with a Simulacrum that performs an Act of Faith then makes it so you MUST assume you are performing an AoF using that simulacrum instead of the "free" act you are allowed.

 

Example: If I use an AoF in the shooting phase for a meltagun in a BSS with a Simulacrum but have no other Simulacrums in my army, that means I have used the AoF I'm allowed for this phase and I cannot use another despite the Simulacrum in that said unit allowing me to use one in addition to AoF I just performed? I can't choose another squad to use my "free" AoF with? I understand the solution of course but just trying to figure this out. I'm assuming the wording on the Simulacrum about allowing you to use an AoF even if one was already used that phase is the reason? Just trying to get some clarification.

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Plus marine Rhinos can't take two SB either unless Index is allowed, which in competitive just isn't/won't be anymore going forward.

C:SM page 159 - Rhino comes standard with 1 Storm Bolter and has the option to add a Hunter Killer Missile and a 2nd Storm Bolter.

My issue is that the SM Rhino kit only comes with 1 Storm Bolter, which shoot a big hole in any argument about it being based on what parts come in the kit.

 

Now if our Rhino kit comes in the same box as our Immolator, and the unit had the option for a hull mounted Heavy Bolter, I'd find a way to get over losing the 2nd Storm Bolter.

 

Personally my biggest confusion is with the part where a unit with a Simulacrum that performs an Act of Faith then makes it so you MUST assume you are performing an AoF using that simulacrum instead of the "free" act you are allowed.

 

Example: If I use an AoF in the shooting phase for a meltagun in a BSS with a Simulacrum but have no other Simulacrums in my army, that means I have used the AoF I'm allowed for this phase and I cannot use another despite the Simulacrum in that said unit allowing me to use one in addition to AoF I just performed? I can't choose another squad to use my "free" AoF with? I understand the solution of course but just trying to figure this out. I'm assuming the wording on the Simulacrum about allowing you to use an AoF even if one was already used that phase is the reason? Just trying to get some clarification.

 

There is no order of operations to this rule.  Just remember it this way.

 

The Simulacrum is simply +1 Act of Faith per phase with the restriction that particular act must be used by the unit carrying the Simulacrum.

Triumph is exactly the same as the Simulacrum but is instead applied as an Aura.

 

So if you had a Brigade with Triumph, 6 battle sister squads w/ Simulacrums, 3 Celestian squads w/ Simulacrums, 3 Dominion squads w/ Simulacrums, and 3 Retributor squads w/ Simulacrums, then you could perform 17 acts of faith every phase as long as you had the MD to do so.

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Plus marine Rhinos can't take two SB either unless Index is allowed, which in competitive just isn't/won't be anymore going forward.

C:SM page 159 - Rhino comes standard with 1 Storm Bolter and has the option to add a Hunter Killer Missile and a 2nd Storm Bolter.

My issue is that the SM Rhino kit only comes with 1 Storm Bolter, which shoot a big hole in any argument about it being based on what parts come in the kit.

Hmm, sorry, my bad... shows I've only played one game with the new marine codex (and none with a Rhino). I recalled that the 2nd would've been removed in the newest Codex, I knew it was in the previous one. I even had a strong notion of specifically checking for it and finding it missing as well as talking about it with others, but that only goes to show how unreliable going on memory can be :unsure.: Probably mixing it up with the Sisters codex I guess.

 

In any case I do fully agree that Rhinos in general regardless of faction could really do with a second weapon outside of the one-shot HKM.

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I never claimed that order didn't matter in 40k.  However every example you gave has nothing to do with order of operations but instead are about optimizing your phase.

 

Of course, given certain circumstances it is more beneficial for you to do some things in a particular order, but that doesn't mean that you are forced to do them in that order.  I'm going to skip most of our points because someone saying the same thing half a dozen times doesn't normally convince me, so I don't expect that it will convince you.

 

It matters in the shooting phase, both in terms of which units shoot in which order and in terms of which weapons shoot first within a unit (provided multiple profiles of weapon are firing at the same target). Your bolters might kill enough to make your flamers and meltaguns out of range. Your flamers and meltaguns might kill enough that some or all of your bolters no longer get two shots.

 

Sure that might be the case vs certain targets, but certainly not all targets or even all situations.  What if you were shooting at a unit of land speeders and one of the speeders only had 1 wound left?  It wouldn't be very optimal to fire your meltaguns first.  And the reason is because your bolters aren't likely going to take out a speeder at full health, but they have a very good chance to take out that one with 1 wound.  So leaving your meltaguns to fire second means you might be able to pop 2 or possibly 3 speeders.

 

It matters in the fight phase because your opponent may wish to spend CP to interrupt your charges or have abilities that lets him also fight first. It also matters once charges have fought because you might have to decide if you want Celestine to fight first so that there are less models to attack your Repentia whereas the Repentia might be able to kill more but you put Celestine at risk of being focused down before she can fight.

 

Ok, so answer this question.  It is your opponent's turn, and they get to chose the first fight in the assault phase.  Before any any dice are rolled, does the simple act of picking this unit to attack that unit affect how many acts of faith you can perform this phase?  The same question could be applied to the shooting phase.

 

This is simply the logical extension of your argument.  If the order maters for how you conduct your turn, then the order in which your opponent attacks you will also affect this ability.

 

If you think that the answer is yes, then please provide at least 1 other example where you can eliminate one of your opponent's army wide special rules simply by selecting a target.

 

Can you turn off disgusting resilient for the Nurgle army by targeting blight drones?  Can you turn off the Devastator Doctrine by targeting a Devastator Squad?

 

So don't sit here and tell me order doesn't matter for Acts of Faith when it matters for every other mechanic in the game and simple logic/English/order of operations says "If I do A, then I cannot do A for the rest of the phase unless the unit also has B and/or C."

 

To play Acts of Faith in any other way without Games Workshop issuing some other clarification on the matter is cheating your opponent.

 

I've asked you to point to the specific language in the rules that creates an order of operations for act of faith, simulacrum and Triumph.  So far you have only provided examples conflating optimized turn sequence with an imagined hard written turn sequence.  It is extremely rude to accuse someone of cheating when you have been unwilling or unable to point to the specific language in the rules that has colored your interpretation of the rules.

 

So instead of an ad hominem, please keep this civil and point to the specific text.

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There is no order of operations to this rule.  Just remember it this way.

 

The Simulacrum is simply +1 Act of Faith per phase with the restriction that particular act must be used by the unit carrying the Simulacrum.

Triumph is exactly the same as the Simulacrum but is instead applied as an Aura.

 

Except that is not what the rule says. It says that it can perform an AoF even if one had already been performed this phase. Order absolutely matters. 

When you want to perform an AoF, you must check 2 things. 1) Does this unit have the Act of Faith ability? 2) Have I performed an Act of Faith this phase? The general rule is that only one AoF may be performed in a phase. 

So say you perform an AoF with a unit with a simulacrum first. Then you try to perform an AoF with a reguler BS squad with no simulacrum. condition 1 is met (the unit has Act of Faith ability). For condition 2, you have already performed an AoF. So you cannot perform a second one. 

 

The rule says that a unit with a simulacrum can perform an AoF even if one was already performed. It does not say that the AoF the unit performs does not count against once per turn limit. 

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There is no order of operations to this rule.  Just remember it this way.

 

The Simulacrum is simply +1 Act of Faith per phase with the restriction that particular act must be used by the unit carrying the Simulacrum.

Triumph is exactly the same as the Simulacrum but is instead applied as an Aura.

 

Except that is not what the rule says. It says that it can perform an AoF even if one had already been performed this phase. Order absolutely matters. 

When you want to perform an AoF, you must check 2 things. 1) Does this unit have the Act of Faith ability? 2) Have I performed an Act of Faith this phase? The general rule is that only one AoF may be performed in a phase. 

So say you perform an AoF with a unit with a simulacrum first. Then you try to perform an AoF with a reguler BS squad with no simulacrum. condition 1 is met (the unit has Act of Faith ability). For condition 2, you have already performed an AoF. So you cannot perform a second one. 

 

If that is your belief then answer this question.

 

Ok, so answer this question.  It is your opponent's turn, and they get to chose the first fight in the assault phase.  Before any any dice are rolled, does the simple act of picking this unit to attack that unit affect how many acts of faith you can perform this phase?  The same question could be applied to the shooting phase.

 

This is simply the logical extension of your argument.  If the order maters for how you conduct your turn, then the order in which your opponent attacks you will also affect this ability.

 

If you think that the answer is yes, then please provide at least 1 other example where you can eliminate one of your opponent's army wide special rules simply by selecting a target.

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If my opponent attacks a unit with a simulacrum first, and I decide to use an act of faith for them for one of the saves, then yes, I would not be able to perform another act of faith that phase with any units that do not have a simulacrum. 

The opponent is not eliminating an army wide special rule by doing this. I am the one that is choosing when and whether to use Acts of Faith. My opponent is forcing me to make a choice about my use of the ability. It's the same as not having any simulacra and only having the one Act of Faith to use. A smart player will try to bait out the Act of Faith for something minor, so it can't be more effectively used later.

 

Emperor's Children get to always fight first in the Fight phase. If I am playing against them, I can charge only a single unit, thereby still allowing that unit to fight first and negating the EC army wide rule.

I can use Incursors target an Eldar unit with the -1 to hit army trait. The Incursors ignore that penalty. So by choosing them to shoot, I have negated their special rule. 

 

But again, my opponent is not eliminating my Acts of Faith special rule by choosing who fights first in their fight phase. Nothing has removed the ability and he can't force me to use it. It is still my choice on when/if to use it. This game is all about creating situations to try to get your opponent to make a bad choice. 

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my opponent is not eliminating my Acts of Faith special rule by choosing who fights first in their fight phase

 

Hmmm.  Are you contradicting yourself here or am I just not understanding the position you are taking?

Let me use this example to map out what I think your position is, and you can tell me where I got lost.

 

You have a repentia squad, a Battle sister squad with a simulacrum and the Triumph, and the repentia are not in range of the Triumph.

It is your opponents turn and they charged all 3 of your units with units of their own, so your opponent is going first for at least 1 fight.

 

If your opponent chooses to attack the Repentia first, then your position is that you are able to perform 3 acts of faith that phase.

However if your opponent chooses to attack anyone else first, then you will only be able to perform 2 acts of faith.

 

Is that your position?

If it is, then how do you square "My opponent is not eliminating my acts of faith by choosing who fights first" with not being able to perform the same number of acts of faith where the only discernible choice is which unit fought first.

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@VH - because eliminating = removing totally

 

what I take Bluejay to be saying is that the sisters opponent is not eliminating the AoF rule but rather just puting another consideration on to IF WE want to use it or not (along with how many MD do we have...)

 

So if we have the 3 units all spread out and they get charged but we only have 1 MD then it makes no difference ... IF how ever we have 3 MD then yes it would make a difference.

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my opponent is not eliminating my Acts of Faith special rule by choosing who fights first in their fight phase

 

Hmmm.  Are you contradicting yourself here or am I just not understanding the position you are taking?

Let me use this example to map out what I think your position is, and you can tell me where I got lost.

 

You have a repentia squad, a Battle sister squad with a simulacrum and the Triumph, and the repentia are not in range of the Triumph.

It is your opponents turn and they charged all 3 of your units with units of their own, so your opponent is going first for at least 1 fight.

 

If your opponent chooses to attack the Repentia first, then your position is that you are able to perform 3 acts of faith that phase.

However if your opponent chooses to attack anyone else first, then you will only be able to perform 2 acts of faith.

 

Is that your position?

If it is, then how do you square "My opponent is not eliminating my acts of faith by choosing who fights first" with not being able to perform the same number of acts of faith where the only discernible choice is which unit fought first.

 

 

Here's how I'm reading it.

Because of the Rules, he's able to perform up to 3 acts of faith that phase.

However, if the opponent forces him to use an act on the sisters squad first, the repentia will not be able to use any acts because they don't qualify for any of the rules that allow them to use an act after the army-wide one is used. 

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Slasher and Roland are correct. That is what I am saying. 

 

The order that my opponent chooses fights may change the number of opportunities I have to perform an Act of Faith, but the rule is still there and I am the one deciding to use it. It's not significantly different to not having any simulacra. My opponent chooses his fight first, so he is deciding which unit can use an Act of Faith first.

 

Remember that Acts of Faith are an option. Their use is dependent on many factors. I have no problem with smart play by my opponent forcing me to make difficult choices about using them. I only get to perform one Act of Faith per phase anyway. It's the simulacrum that is giving me a possibility to use more if the situation warrants it. 

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