Ritual of the Damned, game experience what's working/not

[Timour]

Has anyone tried using Deathwing?

Is there any place for them in a competetive scene?

 

I like the buffs they recieved, but im not sure if its worth bringing them since they require too much resources:

1.You need a biker unit, likely a character like ravenwing apothecary

2.You need to spend 2CP to drop them in 6' range

3.Your biker needs to get in range

 

And even if everything goes well, what will they do after? I suspect they'll get easily kited

[SnakeChisler]

I've just posted a link to a batreps in another thread what you see is a display of movement and terrain use + the raw power of the Knights

 

If you want to make them more survivable drop them with an ancient with the relic banner

 

Deploy behind cover for a T3 charge

Or

Use Sammael on Corvex as the beacon if you have CP to burn, Sammael is useful as he'll give them re-roll 1's

[Berzul]

Has anyone tried using Deathwing?

Is there any place for them in a competetive scene?

 

I like the buffs they recieved, but im not sure if its worth bringing them since they require too much resources:

1.You need a biker unit, likely a character like ravenwing apothecary

2.You need to spend 2CP to drop them in 6' range

3.Your biker needs to get in range

 

And even if everything goes well, what will they do after? I suspect they'll get easily kited

My experience has been as follows:

 

Regular Terminators still get killed fairly easily, and their fists are still unreliable, but the T5 and +1 to hit stratagems mitigate this a bit. So, they are overall better.

 

Deathwing Knights, if you pair them with the Ancient, and use the same stratagems, become absolute beasts. Even starting on the board, they can tank some serious damage.

 

It becomes expensive to use them, sure, but the deathwing got really good with this book.

[Angel of Solitude]

I've played two games with a squad of DWK, supported by an Ancient and a Librarian buffing with Righteous Repugnance. Echo absolutely what Berzul said - they can hit astonishingly hard when buffed, and their 2+/3++/5+++ and potential T5 / Transhuman Physiology makes them ridiculously survivable.

 

Mobility I guess is the main issue - once they're down, they're not travelling too far, so you want them near to an objective as they will just sit on it for days. I've yet to find positioning the Ravenwing Biker very difficult, as I've had at least three unit options to achieve this with.

 

In terms of regular DW, a 10-man squad with 3 SS/TH models supported by an Ancient makes them a great firepower / counter charge base to deepstrike on an objective. If you want to Deathwing Assault them, then that's still 56 shots you can pump out - either at AP-1 (Tactical Doctrine) or at 30" range (Devastator Doctrine). Throw two cyclones in too for a bit of anti-armour punch too.

[mika_angelus]

I'm taking a mostly deathwing list to a tournament in March.

It's a classic format (only a battalion allowed, no named characters, and rule of two) so it should be a bit more kind to a terminator army.

First test of the list will be this Sunday so I'll try to post some highlights after the game.

[Berzul]

I can tell you of my experience in a recent game I had.

 

5 deathwing knights, with an ancient with the pennance of rememberance and acting as warlord with Master of Maneuver, and with Ezekiel with them casting righteous repugnance.

 

It was a small game against necrons. I started the knights on the table, center board, and just ran towards my opponent. Straight line, towards a collision with his forces. Got tied with a blob of immortals, some tomb blades, some wraiths, and his commander. All at the same time, over the course of two rounds. Just 5 knights, mind you.

 

I only ended up losing one model after two rounds of combat, and all but one tomb blade was left standing.

 

Having the rerrolls to advances and charges makes them much more mobile on the board than you would expect, despite their 5 inch move. A blob big enough can clog up a good portion of the board, forcing your opponent to either maneuver around you, or engage. And once you get into combat, trust me. These guys will now require some SERIOUS hitting power to shift.

 

I have plans on playing a 10 man blob with Ezekiel, a Chaplain, and the Ancient, in a tournament in april. Imagine it. That is 21 attacks base. 31 with the ancient's aura. 41 on the charge. 51 if you use outnumbered but not outmatched. With extra attacks on 5+ at the hit rolls, through the litanies and the +1 to hit stratagem. All of these guys with 2+/3++/5+++ saves, a potential toughness of 5, a potential -1 to be wounded, and hitting back one more attack when they die.

 

Expensive? Yes

Hard to direct? Definetly

Fun and deadly? Oh, I am seriously betting on it.

[G8Keeper]

I can tell you of my experience in a recent game I had.

 

5 deathwing knights, with an ancient with the pennance of rememberance and acting as warlord with Master of Maneuver, and with Ezekiel with them casting righteous repugnance.

 

It was a small game against necrons. I started the knights on the table, center board, and just ran towards my opponent. Straight line, towards a collision with his forces. Got tied with a blob of immortals, some tomb blades, some wraiths, and his commander. All at the same time, over the course of two rounds. Just 5 knights, mind you.

 

I only ended up losing one model after two rounds of combat, and all but one tomb blade was left standing.

 

Having the rerrolls to advances and charges makes them much more mobile on the board than you would expect, despite their 5 inch move. A blob big enough can clog up a good portion of the board, forcing your opponent to either maneuver around you, or engage. And once you get into combat, trust me. These guys will now require some SERIOUS hitting power to shift.

 

I have plans on playing a 10 man blob with Ezekiel, a Chaplain, and the Ancient, in a tournament in april. Imagine it. That is 21 attacks base. 31 with the ancient's aura. 41 on the charge. 51 if you use outnumbered but not outmatched. With extra attacks on 5+ at the hit rolls, through the litanies and the +1 to hit stratagem. All of these guys with 2+/3++/5+++ saves, a potential toughness of 5, a potential -1 to be wounded, and hitting back one more attack when they die.

 

Expensive? Yes

Hard to direct? Definetly

Fun and deadly? Oh, I am seriously betting on it.

 

61 if your Chaplain is Asmodai :D

[Berzul]

 

 

I can tell you of my experience in a recent game I had.

 

5 deathwing knights, with an ancient with the pennance of rememberance and acting as warlord with Master of Maneuver, and with Ezekiel with them casting righteous repugnance.

 

It was a small game against necrons. I started the knights on the table, center board, and just ran towards my opponent. Straight line, towards a collision with his forces. Got tied with a blob of immortals, some tomb blades, some wraiths, and his commander. All at the same time, over the course of two rounds. Just 5 knights, mind you.

 

I only ended up losing one model after two rounds of combat, and all but one tomb blade was left standing.

 

Having the rerrolls to advances and charges makes them much more mobile on the board than you would expect, despite their 5 inch move. A blob big enough can clog up a good portion of the board, forcing your opponent to either maneuver around you, or engage. And once you get into combat, trust me. These guys will now require some SERIOUS hitting power to shift.

 

I have plans on playing a 10 man blob with Ezekiel, a Chaplain, and the Ancient, in a tournament in april. Imagine it. That is 21 attacks base. 31 with the ancient's aura. 41 on the charge. 51 if you use outnumbered but not outmatched. With extra attacks on 5+ at the hit rolls, through the litanies and the +1 to hit stratagem. All of these guys with 2+/3++/5+++ saves, a potential toughness of 5, a potential -1 to be wounded, and hitting back one more attack when they die.

 

Expensive? Yes

Hard to direct? Definetly

Fun and deadly? Oh, I am seriously betting on it.

61 if your Chaplain is Asmodai :D

<mind blown>

[G8Keeper]

Also, you could pop the Lay Low the Mighty WL trait on the Ancient to re-roll wounds on big stuff for even more lolz

[Berzul]

Well, righteous repugnance would already grant you that, and you need Master of Maneuver as a trait to keep the knights advancing as much as possible. But, yeah, it could work too.

[mika_angelus]

I went in a bit different direction.

I got a blob of cataphracti termies with an ancient with the banner and lay low the mighty warlord trait to form my center.

Then I got 3 units of 5 termies, one of them being the knights to deepstrike in turn two supported by a chaplain with +2 charge litany and master of maneuver.

Got also a ravenwing apothecary there in case I need to split my deepstrike or if I need a 100% charge.

[Berzul]

I went in a bit different direction.

I got a blob of cataphracti termies with an ancient with the banner and lay low the mighty warlord trait to form my center.

Then I got 3 units of 5 termies, one of them being the knights to deepstrike in turn two supported by a chaplain with +2 charge litany and master of maneuver.

Got also a ravenwing apothecary there in case I need to split my deepstrike or if I need a 100% charge.

Be advices, the litany goes off at the beginning of the movement phase. Dropping the chaplain via deepstrike means the charges get buffed only from the following turn and onwards.

[G8Keeper]

Well, righteous repugnance would already grant you that, and you need Master of Maneuver as a trait to keep the knights advancing as much as possible. But, yeah, it could work too.

You're right! I completely forgot about righteous repugnance!

[mika_angelus]

Be advices, the litany goes off at the beginning of the movement phase. Dropping the chaplain via deepstrike means the charges get buffed only from the following turn and onwards.

I'm well aware of that, that's why my chaplain has a jump pack :)

[Berzul]

 

Be advices, the litany goes off at the beginning of the movement phase. Dropping the chaplain via deepstrike means the charges get buffed only from the following turn and onwards.

I'm well aware of that, that's why my chaplain has a jump pack :)

Cool

[bigtrouble]

Belive in the Smash Chaplain! Last night mine took 15 wounds off of a Knight.

 

That was only with Mantra of Strength and Relic Master Crafted. I tried to get Righteous Repugnance off but failed so only 3 wounds got through.

Yes, a little smash chappie love! I’m still looking for a more reliable or cheaper re roll situation than RR. 58% chance of success is not stable enough, but adding 2 more jump pack HQ doesn’t feel right for the price.

[G8Keeper]

 

Belive in the Smash Chaplain! Last night mine took 15 wounds off of a Knight.

 

That was only with Mantra of Strength and Relic Master Crafted. I tried to get Righteous Repugnance off but failed so only 3 wounds got through.

Yes, a little smash chappie love! I’m still looking for a more reliable or cheaper re roll situation than RR. 58% chance of success is not stable enough, but adding 2 more jump pack HQ doesn’t feel right for the price.

Belial? Of course that's only to hit though. Edited February 14, 2020 by G8Keeper

[Chaplain Elijah]

Has anyone tried using Deathwing?

Is there any place for them in a competetive scene?

 

I like the buffs they recieved, but im not sure if its worth bringing them since they require too much resources:

1.You need a biker unit, likely a character like ravenwing apothecary

2.You need to spend 2CP to drop them in 6' range

3.Your biker needs to get in range

 

And even if everything goes well, what will they do after? I suspect they'll get easily kited

 

I do not use Deathwing like that but with a Jet Pack Chaplain and Canticle of Hate, it's far more reliable.

Last night i did a match with my previous list. Turn 2 i dropped everything and did 5 VPs to zero after i did 6 deep striking charges.

Then the game got crazy and i managed to lost somewhat. In the end i think i put all my eggs in the same basket and that's what costed me the game.

[Grand Master Raziel]

So, here's a bit of fun. Spend the CP to give another character a warlord trait. Make it Fury of the Lion. Have that character charge something and wind up within 6" of your DWKs. They're now swinging at S10. Wound Knights on 3+!

[ValourousHeart]

The mobility I mention is more the fact that my screening units can take midfield early and the Speeder characters have the movement to manoeuvre to get effective firing lanes whilst still staying behind screening units for the character rule. They also have the movement to move back and be protected by your out of LOS units. Playing with characters takes a lot of practice and thinking where your character blocking units need to be keeping in mind the movement of your enemy.

 

As I said it's not perfect but against the other harder hitting marine armies I think it's one of our most solid options for competitive play. Maybe if my current iteration doesn't work I can revisit the 5 TML speeders and sub them in instead of the Inceptors.

 

I get what you are going for.  You have a few stationary units that are planted in the middle of the board and you swing your characters around that point like a tether ball keeping them on the opposite side of your units.

 

My point is that it should only take 2 units pushing forward or deep striking that will force you into a situation where your characters are the closest unit to something.  Unless you are camping your 3 Talonmaster in the gap between your stationary units, at which point you have stripped yourself of the speed of those Talonmasters.

 

I'm surprised that you don't worry about your opponents knowing how to flank a midfield gun line.  I would have thought that would be common knowledge among tournament players.

 

I wouldn't dump the inceptors for the Typhoons.  if you want to add the Typhoons, you really are better off dropping the smash chaplain, 2 of the Talonmasters and trade out the Supreme Command Detachment for an outrider detachment or move everything into the Battalion.  If you go with just the battalion your TML now have a 20 inch move, and your opponent has to strip 18 wounds off of them in order to slow them down.  You will lose 1 CP, but you will now be more efficient with your CP use because 1 CP gives the whole TML squadron jink, while still letting them shoot.  Instead of 1 CP per speeder.  Additionally you only need to get Sableclaw and/or Talonmaster close to 1 of the speeders in the unit to affect the entire unit with their auras.

 

With a 20 inch move and 52 inch range there shouldn't be a need to have your TML in range of anything on your opponent's turn.  And if you are wondering how to survive going second and getting them to actually get to shoot?  Don't deploy them, roll them in at the end of turn 1.  Even if you are playing a mission that restricts you to deploying within 6 inches of the board edge from reserves, you will still have plenty of range to pummel something on the far side of the board.

 

As an added bonus, that 20 inch move with 52 inch range should solve the target priority issue should you face an opponent that also believes that their characters can't be targeted.

[mika_angelus]

So the first test of my deathwing list is behind me.

I'll put my list here for reference

Master with jump pack, master crafted bolter and master crafted power fist

Int. Chaplain with jump pack, master of manoeuvere, and canticle of hate

 

Deathwing ancient with lay low the mighty and pennant of remembrance

Ravenwing apothecary

9 cataphracti - 6 with fist, 3 with single lightning claw

2x5 dw terminators

5 deathwing Knights

 

3x5 scouts with various weapons

 

2x rapier carrier with quad launcher

 

1500 points.

 

So I played against a very shooty ad-mech stygies list with some robots, some servitors, a lot of infantry and a few chickens and onagers. I was quite surprised how much models he had in 1500 points.

 

The terrain was a bit lacking in LoS blockers, but I figured it would be a good test to see how resilient my list is, that is also why I didn't try to seize.

 

So it went like this : I lost my whole catphracti blob in round one from ad-mech shooting. But I managed to keep my characters save for one more round and then my other termies dropped. I used deathwing assault to clear a zone for the deathwing Knights to drop using combined assault. They made their 4 inch charge into the middle of my opponents castle and basically cleared it without further support. We played 6 rounds and both armies had only a few models left, but I managed a tight two point win.

 

Some highlights

- we all know deathwing Knights are good, and they are, now with a way to almost guarantee their charge they are a must have in many builds.

- normal termies still die like flies without support, but I think they are worth it for only 165 points .

- I love the ravenwing apothecary, he is very fast and can heal units in different parts of the board thanks to that, also healing up other important characters may be his most important job in this age of snipers. For only 60 points its a great support character and it's crucial for the combined assault combo.

- cataphractii sadly didn't do much, I rolled way under average for their save but even then with the addition of a feel no pain save they absorbed most of my opponents shooting. On a better table and with just a bit more average rolls they should be a real pain to remove.

 

All in all I'm satisfied how the list performed.

[Orkinstein]

So the first test of my deathwing list is behind me.

I'll put my list here for reference

Master with jump pack, master crafted bolter and master crafted power fist

Int. Chaplain with jump pack, master of manoeuvere, and canticle of hate

 

Deathwing ancient with lay low the mighty and pennant of remembrance

Ravenwing apothecary

9 cataphracti - 6 with fist, 3 with single lightning claw

2x5 dw terminators

5 deathwing Knights

 

3x5 scouts with various weapons

 

2x rapier carrier with quad launcher

 

1500 points.

 

So I played against a very shooty ad-mech stygies list with some robots, some servitors, a lot of infantry and a few chickens and onagers. I was quite surprised how much models he had in 1500 points.

 

The terrain was a bit lacking in LoS blockers, but I figured it would be a good test to see how resilient my list is, that is also why I didn't try to seize.

 

So it went like this : I lost my whole catphracti blob in round one from ad-mech shooting. But I managed to keep my characters save for one more round and then my other termies dropped. I used deathwing assault to clear a zone for the deathwing Knights to drop using combined assault. They made their 4 inch charge into the middle of my opponents castle and basically cleared it without further support. We played 6 rounds and both armies had only a few models left, but I managed a tight two point win.

 

Some highlights

- we all know deathwing Knights are good, and they are, now with a way to almost guarantee their charge they are a must have in many builds.

- normal termies still die like flies without support, but I think they are worth it for only 165 points .

- I love the ravenwing apothecary, he is very fast and can heal units in different parts of the board thanks to that, also healing up other important characters may be his most important job in this age of snipers. For only 60 points its a great support character and it's crucial for the combined assault combo.

- cataphractii sadly didn't do much, I rolled way under average for their save but even then with the addition of a feel no pain save they absorbed most of my opponents shooting. On a better table and with just a bit more average rolls they should be a real pain to remove.

 

All in all I'm satisfied how the list performed.

Do you think change cataphractii to normal terminators with SH and CML or plasma cannon will be better?

[mika_angelus]

No. The 4++ is crucial for a squad that is basically the only target for up to two turns. Better would only be some th&ss termies, but they lack the bolters.

[Grand Master Raziel]

If you put CMLs on the backs of two THSS Termies and give the sergeant THSS, you don't lose much firepower and can use Fortress of Shields. Been toying with the idea of building a list around such a 10-man squad.

[Solrac]

 

The mobility I mention is more the fact that my screening units can take midfield early and the Speeder characters have the movement to manoeuvre to get effective firing lanes whilst still staying behind screening units for the character rule. They also have the movement to move back and be protected by your out of LOS units. Playing with characters takes a lot of practice and thinking where your character blocking units need to be keeping in mind the movement of your enemy.

 

As I said it's not perfect but against the other harder hitting marine armies I think it's one of our most solid options for competitive play. Maybe if my current iteration doesn't work I can revisit the 5 TML speeders and sub them in instead of the Inceptors.

 

I get what you are going for.  You have a few stationary units that are planted in the middle of the board and you swing your characters around that point like a tether ball keeping them on the opposite side of your units.

 

My point is that it should only take 2 units pushing forward or deep striking that will force you into a situation where your characters are the closest unit to something.  Unless you are camping your 3 Talonmaster in the gap between your stationary units, at which point you have stripped yourself of the speed of those Talonmasters.

 

I'm surprised that you don't worry about your opponents knowing how to flank a midfield gun line.  I would have thought that would be common knowledge among tournament players.

 

I wouldn't dump the inceptors for the Typhoons.  if you want to add the Typhoons, you really are better off dropping the smash chaplain, 2 of the Talonmasters and trade out the Supreme Command Detachment for an outrider detachment or move everything into the Battalion.  If you go with just the battalion your TML now have a 20 inch move, and your opponent has to strip 18 wounds off of them in order to slow them down.  You will lose 1 CP, but you will now be more efficient with your CP use because 1 CP gives the whole TML squadron jink, while still letting them shoot.  Instead of 1 CP per speeder.  Additionally you only need to get Sableclaw and/or Talonmaster close to 1 of the speeders in the unit to affect the entire unit with their auras.

 

With a 20 inch move and 52 inch range there shouldn't be a need to have your TML in range of anything on your opponent's turn.  And if you are wondering how to survive going second and getting them to actually get to shoot?  Don't deploy them, roll them in at the end of turn 1.  Even if you are playing a mission that restricts you to deploying within 6 inches of the board edge from reserves, you will still have plenty of range to pummel something on the far side of the board.

 

As an added bonus, that 20 inch move with 52 inch range should solve the target priority issue should you face an opponent that also believes that their characters can't be targeted.

 

 

Very valid points here. I'm still play testing my list so we'll see how we go. Also my Chaplain isn't a smash chaplain. He's there to give +1 to hit my talonmasters/Inceptors. He just has a powerfist because I had a weird amount of points left over.

 

Also I'm not understanding what you mean about not deploying the landspeeders? Unless a unit has a reserve rule on it's datasheet or you have a stratagem that let's you place units in reserve then they have to be deployed before the game starts. I think you are getting confused with the old 7th ed deploy/reserve rules here. 8th edition has never worked like this.