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Endryd Haar


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#1
Cadmus Tyro

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Sorry if this question seems either obvious or has been answered somewhere on this forum.

Endryd Haar’s warlord trait allows him to scout three power armoured infantry units, could this rule be applied to jump infantry (as an infantry subtype) or would you say only standard infantry may benefit?

I’m considering a loyalist Blackshield force, and foot slogging expensive marauder squads seems like a bad idea....

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#2
The Ironic Warrior

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There is no jump infantry type - they are infantry so they benefit


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#3
Gorgoff

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There is no jump infantry type - they are infantry so they benefit

Page 41 Legion army list.
Unit Type: Jump Infantry

Nonetheless I'd say they can use his trait because of the wording. ;)
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#4
The Ironic Warrior

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Page 66 main rulebook, jump is not a type in of itself, instead it occurs before another category normally infantry.

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#5
Gorgoff

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Page 66 main rulebook, jump is not a type in of itself, instead it occurs before another category normally infantry.

Yupp, and becomes jump infantry. Jump is no category on its own but adds to another.
Jump Infantry, Jump Beast, jump whatever.
But still they are no infantry any more in the sense of effects which only effect infantry.
Just like RG Assault Squads don't get infiltration.
They even explain it that they made it like this so that the rules still apply. That way they don't have to re-write how shooting or leadership test work for them. They still can move 6 inches, they still can overwatch etc but they do have additional rules and are a different unit type:
Jump whatever.
They can't embark for example because only infantry can do that.
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#6
The Ironic Warrior

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Jump is a category that is added on to the infantry type, so the way that flows in my head is if something refers to infantry then it covers jump infantry, but if it refers to jump infantry then it only covers that.

So with the examples you gave, the wording of raven guard is bad as it is 100% non jump infantry get infiltrate and jump infantry get furious charge. In this context, endryd allows three power armour infantry units to infiltrate therefore it will apply to assault squads 100%. There's no "I think it might apply given the feel of the rule". It 100% applies clear as day.

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#7
TheCelticRaven

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The rule book states that jump units are treated as their base unit type and follow all rules that apply to those units, the Raven Guard rules are a strange enigma, and Jump infantry cannot embark on transports, not because they are not infantry, but because jump units are explicitly barred from embarking on transports.

Whilst it may be tempting to simply skim the rules, or simply attempt to apply the 7th edition rules to 30k, a lot of rules have changes and the intricacies of the system are in the wording and it is advisable to read each part of a section with care and due diligence.


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#8
Spinsanity

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They can't embark for example because only infantry can do that.


This does sound like the worst example I can think of, since as far as I can remember doesn’t every single vehicle specifically prohibits jetpack units specifically because they’d otherwise be allowed?

#9
Unknown Legionnaire

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This does sound like the worst example I can think of, since as far as I can remember doesn’t every single vehicle specifically prohibits jetpack units specifically because they’d otherwise be allowed?

 

 

No, actually it's the other way round. Jump Pack & Jet Pack Infantry are explicitly prohibited from being transported in vehicles. Vehicles that actually ~are~ able to transport them, have said ability listed in their description under the 'transport capacity' entry, like the Thunderhawk or Sokar Stormbird for example.


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#10
Spinsanity

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No, actually it's the other way round. Jump Pack & Jet Pack Infantry are explicitly prohibited from being transported in vehicles. Vehicles that actually ~are~ able to transport them, have said ability listed in their description under the 'transport capacity' entry, like the Thunderhawk or Sokar Stormbird for example.

Figures, sorry, I don’t actually get to play 30k so didn’t remember.

Still, doesn’t the fact that transports being able to transport infantry models is not specific enough (and that jump infantry therefore has to be mentioned for it to be excluded) kinda shows that jump infantry is infantry?

#11
Gorgoff

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No, actually it's the other way round. Jump Pack & Jet Pack Infantry are explicitly prohibited from being transported in vehicles. Vehicles that actually ~are~ able to transport them, have said ability listed in their description under the 'transport capacity' entry, like the Thunderhawk or Sokar Stormbird for example.

Figures, sorry, I don’t actually get to play 30k so didn’t remember.

Still, doesn’t the fact that transports being able to transport infantry models is not specific enough (and that jump infantry therefore has to be mentioned for it to be excluded) kinda shows that jump infantry is infantry?
Doesn't this little discussion shows why it has to be specifical excluded? ;)
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#12
The Ironic Warrior

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Jump infantry are infantry. It is plain and clear. It says that in the rulebook, so I don't know how there's any confusion about it?

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#13
Gorgoff

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[quote name="The Ironic Warrior" post="5473707" timestamp="1581083700"]

Jump infantry are infantry. It is plain and clear. It says that in the rulebook, /quote]
No, it does not.
Nowhere.
It only says that they share the rules of both but that doesn't make them the unit type infantry.
They are Jump Infantry and the rulebook explaines just that.
But since we agree on the fact that Eddi spends his rule to Assault Squads as well and that there are any more cases in which it is of any importance I am out.
This has become bigger an argument than it deserves already.
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