Beachhead Brawl 2020 Tournament - Grey Knights Ranking

[Waking Dreamer]

Lawrence Baker from Tabletop Tactics has managed 6-0 with his mono GK Army at the event:

 

https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/event/3vgwdmrw?round=6&embed=false

 

His GK Army list:

 

Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [39 PL, 486pts, 2CP] ++

 

No Force Org Slot [2CP] +

 

Armoury of Titan [-1CP]: 1 Additional Relic [-1CP]

 

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

 

Pre Game Enforcement

 

HQ [18 PL, 216pts] +

 

Brother-Captain [9 PL, 113pts]: Blade of the Forsworn, Edict Imperator, Storm Bolter [2pts]

 

- Nemesis Force Sword [1pts]: Nemesis Force Sword [1pts]

 

Librarian [9 PL, 103pts]: Empyrean Domination, Sanctic Shard, Storm Bolter [2pts], Warp Shaping

 

- Nemesis Warding Stave [1pts]: Nemesis Warding Stave [1pts]

 

Troops [21 PL, 270pts] +

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 90pts]: Gate of Infinity

 

- 4x Grey Knight (Falchions) [72pts]: 8x Nemesis Falchion [8pts], 4x Storm Bolter [8pts]

 

Grey Knight Justicar [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]

 

- Nemesis Falchion [2pts]: 2x Nemesis Falchion [2pts]

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 90pts]: Gate of Infinity

 

- 4x Grey Knight (Falchions) [72pts]: 8x Nemesis Falchion [8pts], 4x Storm Bolter [8pts]

 

Grey Knight Justicar [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]

 

- Nemesis Falchion [2pts]: 2x Nemesis Falchion [2pts]

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 90pts]: Gate of Infinity

 

- 4x Grey Knight (Falchions) [72pts]: 8x Nemesis Falchion [8pts], 4x Storm Bolter [8pts]

 

Grey Knight Justicar [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]

 

- Nemesis Falchion [2pts]: 2x Nemesis Falchion [2pts]

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [108 PL, 1,506pts] ++

 

HQ [18 PL, 260pts] +

 

Chaplain [8 PL, 107pts]: 3. Intonement for Guidance, 6. Invocation of Focus, Astral Aim, Storm bolter [2pts]

 

Grand Master Voldus [10 PL, 153pts]: 6: Lore Master, Armoured Resilience, Ethereal Manipulation, Gate of Infinity, Inner Fire, Warlord

 

Troops [21 PL, 270pts] +

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 90pts]: Vortex of Doom

 

- 4x Grey Knight (Falchions) [72pts]: 8x Nemesis Falchion [8pts], 4x Storm Bolter [8pts]

 

Grey Knight Justicar [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]

 

- Nemesis Falchion [2pts]: 2x Nemesis Falchion [2pts]

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 90pts]: Vortex of Doom

 

- 4x Grey Knight (Falchions) [72pts]: 8x Nemesis Falchion [8pts], 4x Storm Bolter [8pts]

 

Grey Knight Justicar [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]

 

- Nemesis Falchion [2pts]: 2x Nemesis Falchion [2pts]

 

- Strike Squad [7 PL, 90pts]: Vortex of Doom

 

4x Grey Knight (Falchions) [72pts]: 8x Nemesis Falchion [8pts], 4x Storm Bolter [8pts]

 

Grey Knight Justicar [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]

 

- Nemesis Falchion [2pts]: 2x Nemesis Falchion [2pts]

 

Elites [69 PL, 976pts] +

 

Apothecary [5 PL, 76pts]: Sanctuary

 

- Nemesis Force Halberd [1pts]: Nemesis Force Halberd [1pts]

 

Paladin Squad [32 PL, 440pts]: Hammerhand

 

- 9x Paladin (Halberd) [396pts]: 9x Nemesis Force Halberd [9pts], 9x Storm Bolter [18pts]

 

Paragon [44pts]: Storm Bolter [2pts]

 

- Nemesis Warding Stave [1pts]: Nemesis Warding Stave [1pts]

 

Paladin Squad [32 PL, 460pts]: Hammerhand

 

5x Paladin (Halberd) [220pts]: 5x Nemesis Force Halberd [5pts], 5x Storm Bolter [10pts]

 

Paladin (Psycannon) [49pts]: Psycannon (Terminator) [7pts]

 

- Nemesis Force Halberd [1pts]: Nemesis Force Halberd [1pts]

 

Paladin (Psycannon) [49pts]: Psycannon (Terminator) [7pts]

 

- Nemesis Force Halberd [1pts]: Nemesis Force Halberd [1pts]

 

Paladin (Psycannon) [49pts]: Psycannon (Terminator) [7pts]

 

- Nemesis Force Halberd [1pts]: Nemesis Force Halberd [1pts]

 

Paladin (Psycannon) [49pts]: Psycannon (Terminator) [7pts]

 

- Nemesis Force Halberd [1pts]: Nemesis Force Halberd [1pts]

 

Paragon [44pts]: Storm Bolter [2pts]

 

- Nemesis Warding Stave [1pts]: Nemesis Warding Stave [1pts]

 

++ Total: [147 PL, 1,992pts, 2CP] ++

 

So do you believe mono-GK have proven themselves to be back in the game?!

[Tralador]

Grey Knights are definitely extremely dangerous, but there are counters (positioning and correct targeting) and our troops can’t take a lot of punishment. I think we can compete at all levels though.

[Skywrath]

Very interesting. So this would be the paladin bomb archetype, I hear people talking about?

[Waking Dreamer]

Very interesting. So this would be the paladin bomb archetype, I hear people talking about?

 

Pretty much but x2, since he decided to go for 2x10-man Paladin units.

 

 

Grey Knights are definitely extremely dangerous, but there are counters (positioning and correct targeting) and our troops can’t take a lot of punishment. I think we can compete at all levels though.

 

For sure, make no mistake deciding to play GK in a setting that is even remotely competitive...is inherently deciding to play WH40K on hard difficulty.

 

GK is a thinking man's army through and through. Making even small mistakes you can get punished very hard.

 

But ultimately, that can also make it much more rewarding when you claim victory over a competitive opponent / army. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Waking Dreamer

[Waking Dreamer]

Lawrence has finally did a video breaking down his Tournament-level GK list.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWs72q9kRCo

[Waking Dreamer]

I think his hardest game was against Raven Guard, it included:

 

- 18 Centurions

- 3 Thunderfire Cannons

- 3 Scouts Squads

- 2 Whirlwinds

- 1 Chapter Master

- 1 Chaplain

- 1 Librarian

- 1 Smash Captain (Hammer & SS)

 

In the end he came second and was one of only two players that were undefeated, the other was tourney champion Vic with his Iron Hands.

 

Best thing is, he's planning to take GK to even more tournaments this year, 

[ChaoticEric]

Has possibly some nice loyalist citizen of the imperium out there plotted down the key mechanics of his list from his youtube video? For us who might not make it through a video of over 100mins :)

[Corvus Fortis]

Well, that works exactly as expected. Gate one bomb, move another with edict. Most enemies cannot kill everything. Strikes support and hold objectives. 

[Waking Dreamer]

Has possibly some nice loyalist citizen of the imperium out there plotted down the key mechanics of his list from his youtube video? For us who might not make it through a video of over 100mins

 

It revolves around the 2 alpha-units:

1. 10-man Paladin unit (Psycannon x4)

2. 10-man Paladin unit (Storm bolters x10)

 

The battle plan is giving your opponents a lot of high-pressure early on, and aiming to deliver the 1, 2 punch over the first 2 turns to cripple their firepower for the rest of the game.

 

- Start the 2 Paladin bombs on the board (in cover while aggressively as possible), and the 6 Strike Squads in reserves.

- Turn 1, buff Paladin bomb 1 with Sanctuary, Armoured Resilience, Astral Aim and Gate them up the board.

- Shoot valuable units/screening within range.

- This puts immediate pressure on the opponent, and forces them to put a lot / all their firepower into weakening / clearing the Paladin bomb 1.

- Turn 2, teleport strike the 6 Strike Squads on the board either on objectives or in the front lines of the opponent.

- Buff Paladin bomb 2 and Gate them up the board as well.

- Use the combined firepower of the Strike Squads and Paladin bombs to weaken/clear the screening of your opponents. 

- Expose their armies assets / characters and / or make charges to continue the pressure and damage output.

 

^ That's the fundamental gameplan which you would tweak depending on the army you're facing, how they're deployed, mission objectives etc.  

[Corvus Fortis]

I wonder if Teminator+Paladin bomb build is viable.

[Soder]

The librarian with the relic shard, warp shaping and empyrean domination seems to be clutch as well!

 

I really like this list

[Biscuittzz]

I wonder if Teminator+Paladin bomb build is viable.

 

Generally no. A large amount of the damage comes from the 2W smites that get thrown out when the strikes come down. You get roughly 2 strike squads for each terminator squad, so you're halving your damage just by taking them. The reason Paladins also do much better is due to their 3W compared to terminators who are stil eaten alive by 2 damage weaponry.

[Waking Dreamer]

The librarian with the relic shard, warp shaping and empyrean domination seems to be clutch as well!

I really like this list

If your local meta still allows Index options, be sure to take the storm shield as well. It makes your Librarian tough against snipers as well. The storm shield Librarian was part of Lawrence's original army list!

[Waking Dreamer]

Interview with Lawrence on his winning army and experiences at the Beachhead Brawl:

 

https://www.goonhammer.com/a-tabletop-tactician-lawrence-baker-at-the-beachhead-brawl/

 

^ This one shouldn't take more than 10 mins tops to read. 

 

EDIT:

 

Looks like one of the tweaks for his revamp lists includes dropping the Chaplain for adding in a second Librarian. One has the Shard relic and the other the Matrix relic.

 

Who would have thought in 8ed that a mono GK tournament-level list, would include TWO Librarians and STILL be competitive...?! lol

Edited February 19, 2020 by Waking Dreamer

[Corvus Fortis]

Looks like one of the tweaks for his revamp lists includes dropping the Chaplain for adding in a second Librarian. One has the Shard relic and the other the Matrix relic.

 

 

TBH, Chaplain didn't look like a must-have for me from the start. And that feeling got stronger after a couple of games. The problem is that his bonuses are good but not critical and the way the prayers works makes them very hard to use for an army that depends on reserves. If you put a chaplain reserves, he won't be chanting anything till turn 3! If you want to do his job at the frontline, you have to use gate on him at some point or go by foot. And the only critical bonus he provides is ignore modifiers, but it is only needed in certain match-ups, but most of the time you can smite away the enemy or use Fury of the Proven, for example. Another case is an army with lots of mortal wounds where you want to have Litany of faith, but again, it will be effective only in certain match-ups. But I find it too annoying to set up that way that my units gets bonuses from litanies every turn. 

 

After some time I feel, that chaplain is too tricky to use and his bonuses are too specific. Marine chaplain, for example, has stuff that always handy, like +1 to-hit or +1 to-wound for the closest target or +2 for charging. 

 

So, I'm glad that chaplain is not useless anymore and very helpful in certain scenarios. But like Purgation squad or GMNDK, he'd better stay on the shelf if you are going for 100% efficient army. 

 

Librarian, on the other hand, provides more dominus power backup, +1 smite, bonus psychic defence from his hood and Matrix relic that can be very handy. 

 

But chaplains to cool not to take them to friendly and semi-competitive games, yes.

 

Who would have thought in 8ed that a mono GK tournament-level list, would include TWO Librarians and STILL be competitive...?! lol

 

 

 

Are we returning to 7th? What else? Competitive terminators? Basic NDK spam? Psycannons on every model? Purifiers not being trash?

[SnorriSnorrison]

I’ve build a terminator chaplain just because it’s a cool aesthetic, a wholly black-armoured dude in a sea of blue-ish silver.

 

Lawrence‘s list is nasty though. Paladins Look very strong on powe and two of the bombs seem to have caught some people by surprise. Quite anti-meta in some cases for sure, but the vox cast made it sound like he played the army quite well.

 

Deepstriking 6 strike squads is super interesting actually and feels closer to how the army should be played, just massive teleport strikes and elite infantry.

[Waking Dreamer]

Lawrence did say that the meta was taken by surprise, and no army list was made with GK / Paladin bombs / 2MW smite spam in mind. From here on he believes the meta will most likely take into account Paladin bombs and smite spam more seriously, even though the armies he played did have solid, layered screening and proper deployment (as befitting tournament-level players).

 

Does anyone here have any ideas of some enemy units that could reliably hard-counter our (seemingly now competitive standard) Paladin bomb? Or even units in the near future not seen in the current meta, that could come back to the table just to deal with our GK Paladins effectively?

[SnorriSnorrison]

Eliminators with las fusils come to mind, and obviously everything with 3 damage that can survive into later turns when CP are scarce so the -1 damage strat won’t get off too easily. High AP and 3 damage ranged weapons that are in the list for anti-tank, and you don’t run any tanks so they focus on the paladins.

[Corvus Fortis]

Well, things that come to mind:

 

1) Mortal wounds. Paladins have zeron protection from them if you won't dedicate a Chaplain to that. Fortunately, most mortal wounds come from Psychic Powers and we can at least try to deny them, but we can't deny everything and we can easily lose a paladin a turn even to moderate psychic phase;

2) Ignore cover/Ignore modifiers because it will negate tide of convergence.There are a lot of stuff here and there;

3) S8+ massed weapons, because they make AR impact weaker and forces us to spend more precious CP on THP. If they are moderate/high AP and D3+ damage, it is even worse. First things that come to mind are Dark Angels Plasma (S8 -4 3 with doctrine and stratagem, easily spamable), Dark Reapers (S8 -2 3 and ignores modifiers), Ork Smashaguns (S8 -2 D3, I think, and there's a lot of shots), Skitarii Dragoons charge and Knights stomps, Marine Smash Captains;

4) Effective denies. Khorne, Black Templars, AdMech and Sisters can stop any important power, like Warp Shaping or Armored Resilience with a 4+ roll. Tyranids' Shadow of the Warp and especially Deepest Shadow make casts way harder. Culexus is our archnemesis, as always;

5) Anti-Stratagem Stratagems and "CP-eaters". In short, GSC, Drukhari, Callidus, Coteaz. Drukhari are the most dangerous, because they can use the AoV several times per game. It is expensive, but denied Dynamic Insertion, Psybolt Ammunition, THB or RD can cost you a game;

6) Mobile armies. Paladin bomb is very slow once it is set up. We can show a trick or two with gate and/or edict, but generally we want paladins and heroes to be together. And that is like 1/3rd of our army. Some opponents can simply outscore us. 

 

Fortunately, there are no opponents that can do all the things at the same time, except, probably, eldar soup. So the toughest match-ups will probably be Marines (but it is true for every single army in the game right now) and Craftworlds (especially with Drukhari allies for AoV). I wonder, how is situation with SoB and GSC since both our army and these armies have some tricks that counter each other. 

 

But there is a single army which is a perfect counter to GK. It has everything (except reliable stratagem deny) above. And it is, well, Grey Knights. Lot's of Mortal Wounds? Check. Ignore cover/modifiers? Check. Massed S8 multidamage? Psycannons. Anti-psychic? Check. No anti-stratagem tricks, but still can ally Coteaz for -1 CP which can hurt a bit. Mobility? Check (unless it is another double paladin bomb). 

 

GK mirror match is the most swingy match that I can think of. I hope, I won't be playing one anytime soon.

[Seizeman]

High strenght weapons aren't that powerful unless they do d6 dmg and -3 ap. With just resilience and redoubtable defense, you need 8 dark reaper shots (with rerolls to hit and wound) to kill a single paladin, because of the low ap. Similarly, you need 10 overcharged plasma shots (rerolling 1s to hit and wound and without tide of shadows) to kill a paladin. Even a lascannon needs a 4+ on the wound roll to kill a paladin in one shot. The only units I've found that deal decent damage to paladins have been voidravens (they just kill a couple of paladins and they can only use it once per game though) and exorcists, but dark eldar and sisters are a very easy matchups anyway, so it does not matter. As for craftworlds, the only unit that does significant damage to paladins are big units of buffed shining spears, but only one unit can do it per turn and they die in the process, so it's not that bad. Big units of bullgrins can also be problematic, as they can do some damage to the paladins and lock them for a couple of turns, so beware of those.

 

As for denies, the only powers you really need to resolve are edict imperator and gate, and you can cast them outside of deny range when they are most needed. Even if they try to deny, it's only one per turn and cost cp, or they have to deny your +1-3 casts.

 

The GK mirror looks like a nightmare indeed, but there's a lot of luck involved in any mirror match anyway.

[Waking Dreamer]

 

In the end he came second and was one of only two players that were undefeated, the other was tourney champion Vic with his Iron Hands.

 

Have you guys been wondering what would have happened if the two 6-0 victory players actually faced off in a 7th Shadow Round...?!

 

Lawrence's double Paladin Bomb vs Vic's Tourney Winning Iron Hands...??

 

Well due to popular demand this has taking place right here:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2Atv6BWUjg

 

I haven't actually watched it myself since I'm getting ready to fly out tomorrow. But maybe by the time I land, someone will have posted some cool details / and have a discussion going. As of typing this I don't know who has actually emerged victorious...??

 

But for now, i'll just end by saying, go Lawrence! For Titan!

[Captain Coolpants]

Vic is a very good player. Could tell almost straight away he was going to win.

 

Lawrence, obviously a better player than I'll ever be. Just had soooo many points worth of characters in a corner, doing absolutely nothing. They threw some buffs out for a few turns. Then just nothing.

 

He also kept his strike squads longer than expected in reserves.

I really feel like the extra bodies and smites from the characters and strikes would have removed a significant amount of screening, and would have been a closer game.

 

But what do I know. These guys think numerous turns ahead. So maybe what happened was the better outcome.

[Seizeman]

That game was over before it started. That table was absolute  garbage, just an open field with no cover and no LOS blocking terrain, it was just made so the shooty army could win easily. That's specially significant when you play second, as in every normal situation you could just start your whole army out of LOS so your opponent does 0 damage on turn one.

 

Also, for some unexplainable reason, Lawrence started one of his units of paladins in the open, when he should have deployed them on the ruins with the rest of his army (or behind the terrain on his right side perhaps, I can't tell if it was big enough to hide them). That way, he wasted 4 paladins and 4 CP for absolutely no gain.

 

I highly doubt they had any intention to have a real game.

[Waking Dreamer]

At the airport at the moment, so I haven't watched the match yet...But it seems Iron Hands are still undeniably top dogs.

 

I think it's good to see first-hand how the list works in action - if at least to see what it can't do / limitations, so you can think of ways to improve it. I'll watch it as soon as I can.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Waking Dreamer

[Icosiel]

I'm curious about one thing in that video. At 49:00, Vik takes the wounds on his Eliminators one at a time because one of them is out of cover. After that one dies, he starts making his next saves with the +2 bonus that Eliminators get from cover. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all of the shots from one unit resolved at the same time? Wouldn't the Eliminators be considered out of cover for all of the shots?