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Space Wolves list in the meta


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#1
Harald Fairmane

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Posting seekingsagas stuff from reddit here as it may help competitive players. He won 5-1.

 

Interestingly he claims that wulfen currently are a "terrible" unit, as they will be immobilized by the thunderfire cannons half movement strat, and he uses the impulsors as a modern rhino rush.  Both awesome that he was able to pull this off and a bit demoralising as he describes it as a list where you cannot afford to make any mistakes and have to capitalize on your opponents mistakes.  The Fly keyword protects all troops in impulsors and all characters as well as wolf guard jump packs from the TFC's.  I asked him if PA would make more wolves lists viable but he thinks it will only increase the effectiveness of this list teehee.gif 

 

Anyway, albeit hard, it is POSSIBLE brothers!  The Iron hands thought they would sit easily on the throne but then come the wolves and makes a dent in the universe!

 

 

 

The list

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [27 PL, 877pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Wolf Lord [6 PL, 143pts]: Jump Pack, Saga of the Beastslayer, Storm shield, Thunder hammer, Warlord

 

Wolf Lord [6 PL, 143pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, The Wulfen Stone, Thunder hammer

 

+ Troops +

 

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 94pts]: Bolt rifle

4x Intercessor

Intercessor Pack Leader: Power fist

 

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 94pts]: Bolt rifle

4x Intercessor

Intercessor Pack Leader: Power fist

 

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 94pts]: Bolt rifle

4x Intercessor

Intercessor Pack Leader: Power fist

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Impulsor [103pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Ironhail Heavy Stubber, Shield Dome

 

Impulsor [103pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Ironhail Heavy Stubber, Shield Dome

 

Impulsor [103pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Ironhail Heavy Stubber, Shield Dome

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [49 PL, 1,120pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Rune Priest [7 PL, 128pts]: Bolt pistol, Jump Pack, Psychic hood, Runic armour, Runic staff

 

Wolf Guard Battle Leader [5 PL, 128pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

 

+ Troops +

 

Blood Claws [9 PL, 100pts]

6x Blood Claw

Blood Claw Pack Leader: Chainsword

Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Bolt pistol, Storm shield

 

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 94pts]: Bolt rifle

4x Intercessor

Intercessor Pack Leader: Power fist

 

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 94pts]: Bolt rifle

4x Intercessor

Intercessor Pack Leader: Power fist

 

+ Elites +

 

Wolf Guard [18 PL, 370pts]: Jump Pack

Wolf Guard: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Wolf Guard: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Wolf Guard: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Wolf Guard: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Wolf Guard: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Wolf Guard: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Wolf Guard: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Wolf Guard: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Wolf Guard: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Impulsor [103pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Ironhail Heavy Stubber, Shield Dome

 

Impulsor [103pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Ironhail Heavy Stubber, Shield Dome

 

++ Total: [76 PL, 1,997pts] ++

 

 

Tactic:

 

A lot of this is game by game basis as every opponent usually requires a bit different tactics depending on terrain and deployment and secondaries but generally I’m deploying the impulsors in a circle around my entire army with 4 characters inside the castle 4,5 inches away from the outside edge of the impulsors so that if someone charges me my characters can jump over and HI and do some work. I don’t want to do that so it’s usually more a bluff than anything. No one tried to jump me like that. It usually requires killing 2 of my impulsors and the ints inside before people wanted to come in on me.

First turn I’m usually advancing my impulsors and the rest of my army to the middle of the table or behind an L somewhere near mid. I won’t get a kill turn 1 almost ever. I will usually hold more. The key is to not spread out. Deploy to play the mission. Slant your army towards whatever the bonus is. Use terrain. It’s your friend.

At some point in every game you have to pull the trigger. Knowing when to is the hard part. Basically at that point you are going all in. All the ints are coming out. All your characters are in. Your impulsors are charging in first to tank over watch. The hammer dudes are either dropping in or Coming out to play.

If you have the majority of your army in tact by that point it’s basically GG for them. You just need to look to pin using your impulsors and swing with combat weapons into the unit you want to live or double fight with the WG into a unit you didn’t declare so you can’t harm them but get the movement to wrap them.

Always make sure your characters are never basing enemy models and that your other units like impulsors are. So that even if that unit can smite. It can’t smite characters.

Some games you just have no choice but to deploy aggressively as possible and go as fast as you can across the table (IH gunlines/guard gunlines) but vs combat armies is where this list really shines.

Wolves are a pretty hard counter to Blood angles. They do not like being forced to fight last. Round 6 I played the best BA player in the region and basically our first 3 turns were me waiting out his DC and seeing if he would make a mistake or him trying to kill a single impulsor with a relic whirlwind.

First 3 turns were over in 10 minutes. I moved slightly over to a forest where an objective was. I’m holding more and my army is now -4 to charge. No kills happened in the first 3 turns. After he dropped his DC the game got a lot more tense but basically by turn 4 I pulled the trigger because I was in range to charge with my WG into his 2 engineer units which he put 6 inches apart near Mephiston and his scorp. Which were my marked for death units. So that was the mistake I was waiting for.

I tossed the WG in and they killed both units of Ints. Mephiston a unit of incursors and the scorp. That was going to get me the win by a couple points.

 

https://www.reddit.c...51_with_wolves/


Edited by Harald Fairmane, 11 February 2020 - 08:14 PM.

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#2
TiguriusX

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Interesting. Thanks a ton for sharing.

For a competitive list I'm surprised he didn't use an inquisitor riding in an impulsor.

Counts as pure SW still and gives some very powerful tricks like no overwatch charging (terrify psyker ability) or the ability to keep a unit from leaving melee on a 3+ (hereticus no escape trait).

He has a jaded take on things and is basically trying to survive the marine meta.
But he earned the right to talk with his experience.

I'm a joe blow theory crafter with not enough time for the serious tournament scene.

Edited by TiguriusX, 11 February 2020 - 08:42 PM.

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#3
ranulf the revenant

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Hmmm... So the thunderfire strat-thing is THAT prevalent then?

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#4
TiguriusX

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Hmmm... So the thunderfire strat-thing is THAT prevalent then?


No...thunder fire cannons are the main issue followed by the stratagem

At LVO TFCs were one of the most taken unit

They got buffed to OP levels with marine codex 2.0
Cost is cheaper
BS improved to 2+
Doctrines give it extra AP starting turn 1

Many marine players I know take the max of 3 because...why not

Iron hands get automatic rerolls for their TFCs with super doctrine

The tremor shell is the cherry on top that shuts down up to 2 ground based melee units because it can fire twice

Before marine update a single TFC was considered a should take option for tremor shells. Now they are already in your list so the stratagem gets used more
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#5
Harald Fairmane

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He is jaded for sure! laugh.png hopefully this result is a vitamin shot for him and the rest of the brothers.  I asked him about the inquisition TiguriusX, he tried hector but its not a good point investment according to him. 

 

And as you say, the tfc's are nasty.  Very clever way to get around the strat by giving all units the fly keyword.  But investing in 5 impulsors..  Hmmm.


Edited by Harald Fairmane, 11 February 2020 - 10:23 PM.


#6
TiguriusX

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He is jaded for sure! laugh.png hopefully this result is a vitamin shot for him and the rest of the brothers. I asked him about the inquisition Tigeriux, he tried hector but its not a good point investment according to him.

And as you say, the tfc's are nasty. Very clever way to get around the strat by giving all units the fly keyword. But investing in 5 impulsors.. Hmmm.

I believe the basic inquisitor is only 55...can be a psyker too.

Dont take the named inquisitors for this trick

Edited by TiguriusX, 11 February 2020 - 10:10 PM.

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#7
One Two Wolf

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Does the rule of three not apply here (impulsors and intercessors) or am I missing something?

#8
PeteySödes

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Does the rule of three not apply here (impulsors and intercessors) or am I missing something?


Yea troops and dedicated transports are exempted.
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#9
One Two Wolf

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Huh. Learn something every day.

#10
Watcher

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A friend of mine sent this to me the other day, definitely a strong list with the Impulsors being a strong gunline/shieldline with the shield dome 4+ Invuln. Grateful for this guy and his success. I have also struggled greatly using Wulfen (see my thread on Alternative Units to Wulfen in Competitive?) so its nice to see a guy pow-wowing a tournament with pure Wolves without relying on three squads of Wulfen to get him there. For most competitive lists in the meta we saw over the last 1-2 years were soup with only a vanguard detachment of Wulfen with a Priest. Love the creativity and the smart gameplay. 

 

Hats off to this guy, he's earned the right to be our Champion in our meta thumbsup.gif


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#11
Wolf Guard Dan

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This is really good list design. It's not a "net-list" that you're going to see everyone taking but it will work well in the right hands.

 

TiguriusX, this may need to be FAQ'ed but as I read it an inquisitor cannot embark on an Impulsor because part of the restriction is primaris. Inquisitors just ignore the faction keywords but are still limited by other restrictions. Hector Rex would be the obvious choice. And success may very depending on play-style.

 

That Wolf Guard unit has to be so hit and miss. At the end of the day small arms fire is going to tear through it. My preference would be to Cunning of the Wolf some Wulfen if you're facing a gunline. If we get a strat or super-doctrine that boosts charge distance then it changes the math on this quite a bit. The jump packs make the WG so mobile though.

 

Thanks for posting Harald! This is getting the creative juices flowing and keeping me distracted from waiting for info on our update!

 

Edit: the overwatch denial access via inquisitors is probably moot. He's charging with quite a few impulsors that should soak some overwatch.


Edited by Wolf Guard Dan, 12 February 2020 - 05:36 AM.

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#12
Triszin

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It is an interesting list, but, for me; seems kinda like a generic marine infantry list.

Still, impulsors seem really good with the dome, and they are cheap.
banana

#13
Dark Shepherd

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It is an interesting list, but, for me; seems kinda like a generic marine infantry list.

Still, impulsors seem really good with the dome, and they are cheap.


And SW intercessor pack leaders with power fists are now proven to be good

#14
TiguriusX

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TiguriusX, this may need to be FAQ'ed but as I read it an inquisitor cannot embark on an Impulsor because part of the restriction is primaris. Inquisitors just ignore the faction keywords but are still limited by other restrictions. Hector Rex would be the obvious choice. And success may very depending on play-style.

Edit: the overwatch denial access via inquisitors is probably moot. He's charging with quite a few impulsors that should soak some overwatch.


Good catch. I dont run inquisitors and thought their ability to jump in transports ignored all restrictions.

I took a closer look and it only ignores faction keywords. So in his list an inquisitor would be stuck on foot and doesn't work.

If you manage to experiment with one and dont need to ignore overwatch dont forget the other trick.

Preventing a unit from leaving melee keeps you from being shot and keeps that unit from shooting.

Dont need to tri point or wrap a model with the ability

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#15
Donkalleone

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I might be completly Wrong but i see a huge Optimization for the list.

He has 3 TH on Characters instead of Powerfist. While on regular Troops TH is better for 7 Points more; on Character its 31p for average 1,5 dmg .

For 93 points you could get a TFC or another Unit.


Edited by Donkalleone, 12 February 2020 - 05:15 PM.


#16
TiguriusX

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I might be completly Wrong but i see a huge Optimization for the list.
He has 3 TH on Characters instead of Powerfist. While on regular Troops TH is better for 7 Points more on Chracter its 31p for average 1,5 dmg more.
For 93 points you could get a TFC.


Except space wolves dont have TFC =)

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#17
Donkalleone

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I might be completly Wrong but i see a huge Optimization for the list.
He has 3 TH on Characters instead of Powerfist. While on regular Troops TH is better for 7 Points more on Chracter its 31p for average 1,5 dmg more.
For 93 points you could get a TFC.


Except space wolves dont have TFC =)

 

It was an example...lets say it is an intercessor squad or almost an impulsor.

I looked into the Impulsor. I ignored the Primaris Marines since they are a Big censored.gif You to the old SM Players and refuse to buy them.

4+ Invul, Orbital Strike (in the Castle Meta its reasonable) and Assault Vehicle.

Thats a freaking Joke. Not even the Crusader has the Assault Vehicle Rule. This stupid "buy our new Models" BS is gettign tireing.

I know its not the right Threat but man i needed to vent.


Edited by Donkalleone, 12 February 2020 - 05:15 PM.

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#18
TiguriusX

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I find the assault vehicle rule humorous myself.

You cant "assault" from it...better for shooting or psychic alpha strikes

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#19
TiguriusX

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More detailed article has been released

https://www.goonhamm...-jon-kilcullen/
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#20
Harald Fairmane

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Epic read. Man, that fight against the custodes 😅

#21
Wolf Guard Dan

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Good read. Nice to read the thoughts from the designer of the list.

The list is going to get better with our update. Looks like there weren’t devastating missed charges with that Wolf Guard unit. Too bad he got seized on vs the iron hands. That cost him a chance at winning the tournament.
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#22
Dark Shepherd

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Good read. Nice to read the thoughts from the designer of the list.

The list is going to get better with our update. Looks like there weren’t devastating missed charges with that Wolf Guard unit. Too bad he got seized on vs the iron hands. That cost him a chance at winning the tournament.


Further proof seizing is evil

#23
Karhedron

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Looking at the list, there doesn't seem to be very much that is SW specific. You could do a very similar list with almost any other Chapter. The signature element is the 6" HI with the various hitty characters but even the player admits he has never actually done it.

Does this list prove that SWs are competitive in the meta? Or does it just prove that a good player can leverage the new Primaris units effectively, regardless of Chapter?
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#24
PeteySödes

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Looking at the list, there doesn't seem to be very much that is SW specific. You could do a very similar list with almost any other Chapter. The signature element is the 6" HI with the various hitty characters but even the player admits he has never actually done it.

Does this list prove that SWs are competitive in the meta? Or does it just prove that a good player can leverage the new Primaris units effectively, regardless of Chapter?

 

This was my thought too TBH. That said, I'd be curious to see how a C:SM version of this works as i've also been unable to catch people with the HI but certainly use it as a bully tactic that I know without a doubt influences my opponents moves.



#25
Wolf Guard Dan

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The threat of HI will impact how an opponent plays. Our chapter tactic is for the +1 to hit for those hammers on the charge. He does utilize Wolf specific stuff though. The rune priest powers and strat were useful for him. Wulfen stone is solid. And he probably used the stratagem to get armor of Russ. Saga of beast slayer on the warlord is important too. If the lord takes down a vehicle or monster that aura is so useful in this meta.

What differentiates armies these days are relics and strats. The chapter tactics really don’t make the difference anymore.

His list proves primaris can work in our lists.
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