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Panoply of War (WD 451)


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#1
Firedrake Cordova

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Hi all,

 

Dunno if it's of interest, but WD 451 has an article called "Panoply of War" in it, which is billed as "A guide to aircraft markings and insignia in Aeronautica Imperialis, including a brief chart showing some of the Imperial Navy's unit structure."

 

The short version is that it's 3.5 pages, which contains:

  • about half a page on the organisational structure of the Imperial Navy (flights, squadrons, wings, etc)
  • 2 pages of colour plates on markings of the Imperial Navy (4 illustrations), specifically camouflage and ace markings.

Overall somewhat disappointing...

 

(I got my subscription copy today...)


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#2
Beaky Brigade

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Thanks for the preview, I heard this was coming but I won't set my expectations too high. I usually get WD anyway.
 



#3
Firedrake Cordova

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No worries. smile.png  I was hoping there'd be some more examples of colour schemes of existing units (I think the Sabbat Crusade book might actually have more in it...) ... one of them looks a lot like the USAF/Luftwaffe WWII African theatre colour scheme ...



#4
Arendious

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Anything is better than nothing, granted, but that article does sound rather light. Over a century of combat aviation to use for inspiration, and four pictures is the best they can come up with?

Anything on doctrine or tactics? (In-universe)

"Take this, thy reflector belt, that the Emperor's Holy Light will shine in all the places that you go."  ~Commissar Lemay, Imperial Flying Corpsgallery_48988_6285_18080.png


#5
Firedrake Cordova

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Anything is better than nothing, granted, but that article does sound rather light. Over a century of combat aviation to use for inspiration, and four pictures is the best they can come up with?

I was hoping for some "squadrons of legend", but alas it was not to be. sad.png I get that Specialist Games are inherently niche*, and thus get less coverage, but ...

 

* Having said that, I've played WHFB since 4th Ed and 40K since 3rd Ed, and now I only play stuff in the Specialist Games range. :lol:

 

Anything on doctrine or tactics? (In-universe)

Beyond how combat units are organised (squadrons all being the same type of craft, wings being multiple squadrons with the same combat role), sadly not.


Edited by Firedrake Cordova, 17 February 2020 - 06:18 PM.


#6
Arendious

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...squadrons all being the same type of craft, wings being multiple squadrons with the same combat role), sadly not.


Hunh... Even in the grim darkness of the far future, everyone still thinks the Composite Wing concept sucks. 😏

"Take this, thy reflector belt, that the Emperor's Holy Light will shine in all the places that you go."  ~Commissar Lemay, Imperial Flying Corpsgallery_48988_6285_18080.png


#7
Beaky Brigade

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What we need I think is more information about how the different segmentum battle fleets differ in culture, panoply and strategy, because at the moment the Navy comes across as pretty uniform as an organisation other than the colours of the ships and where they usually fight, and this therefore drips down to the AI.

It seems at the moment you really have to make your own lore for your squadron based on your favourite period of air warfare, and while I wouldn't want it to be as prescriptive as something like the ultramarines perhaps there is a happy medium.

Even in the most popular related book Double Eagle the Navy is sort of a soft antagonist to the plucky Phantine pilots and we don't get a lot of insight into them.


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#8
Qkhitai

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A little bit more organisation background is needed, for sure. I'd still like to know how squadron/wing numbering schemes work; does each Segmentum have it's own 123whatever Squadron, or is the numbering system the same across the whole galaxy? Are squadron numbers related to wing numbers (as some old FW lore indicates), or separate (as implied in some GW/BL fluff)? But I certainly don't want to see too much; I don't think you can define squadrons in the same way as Imperial Guard regiments or Space Marine chapters - whilst they can have history and battle honours, given the nature of the Imperial Navy, they're less likely to have their own cultures. And I quite like that, personally. I like the idea of a random collection of pilots thrown together in an otherwise bland and arbitrary squadron; they're not forced to be special, or to stand out, or look different from each other, they just fly around and kill things. It's a nice counter balance to how most of 40k works, where every regiment/sept/craftworld/warband/chapter etc has to be different and unique. There is an 'ordinaryness' about AI and the Imperial Navy which is actually quite comforting in an otherwise weird and wacky universe.


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#9
Arendious

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...they're less likely to have their own cultures...

...otherwise bland and arbitrary squadron...


Spent much time around fighter pilots? 😏

The USAF has been trying (with varying levels of determination) to homogenize flying squadron 'culture' since it's inception. And that's with all the benefits of easy communication, centralized instruction, and a generally homogeneous base society.

"Take this, thy reflector belt, that the Emperor's Holy Light will shine in all the places that you go."  ~Commissar Lemay, Imperial Flying Corpsgallery_48988_6285_18080.png


#10
Beaky Brigade

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So to actually review the article itself (now I have the magazine) the information is pretty minimal and is basically licence to paint and number your minis how you want (which is a good thing!).

Minor annoyance is the colour profiles appear to be taken from the existing Ryn's World book or the profiles on the back of each product box, so I don't think there is any original art content.

Most unequivocal thing in it was that the Navy owns EVERY Imperial aircraft, on paper at least, including those seconded to the Guard.

It's not great for me, but I think I'm looking for something at a very advanced level. I read about air warfare (fiction and non fiction) and watched video interviews with former military pilots, just for inspiration on my own squadron.

I guess it might be great if you don't know a lot about it and have no idea how to approach it.
 


Edited by Beaky Brigade, 24 February 2020 - 05:35 PM.

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#11
Arendious

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...the information is pretty minimal and is basically licence to paint and number your minis how you want (which is a good thing!)...

It's not great for me, but I think I'm looking for something at a very advanced level.

I guess it might be great if you don't know a lot about it and have no idea how to approach it.


Concur, that was my impression as well. Very much a "reader has watched some 'Ace Combat' YouTube videos once" level introduction. Which is understandable, and even laudable, but hardly the 'deep look' the article claims.

Most unequivocal thing in it was that the Navy owns EVERY Imperial aircraft, on paper at least, including those seconded to the Guard.


That introduces some VERY interesting logistics questions.

Does the Munitorum provide spare parts, stores, fuel, and maintenance for seconded aircraft? Or does the Navy? (What about PDF squadrons?)
Do embarked squadrons bring organic support equipment for deploying to planetside airfields? Or do they meet specialist support units that travel separate? (If the latter, are those sailors, guardsmen, or Munitorum personnel?)

This doesn't even touch on command and control yet...
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"Take this, thy reflector belt, that the Emperor's Holy Light will shine in all the places that you go."  ~Commissar Lemay, Imperial Flying Corpsgallery_48988_6285_18080.png


#12
Beaky Brigade

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That introduces some VERY interesting logistics questions.

Does the Munitorum provide spare parts, stores, fuel, and maintenance for seconded aircraft? Or does the Navy? (What about PDF squadrons?)
Do embarked squadrons bring organic support equipment for deploying to planetside airfields? Or do they meet specialist support units that travel separate? (If the latter, are those sailors, guardsmen, or Munitorum personnel?)

This doesn't even touch on command and control yet...

 

Double Eagle has a surprisingly subtle approach to this in retrospect.

In the Enothis campaign the PDF supply the initial base infrastructure, the Navy supply (most) of the pilots and aircraft, the Phantine (Guard) are subsumed to Navy command and the Munitorum drive the pilots to their hotel :D

 

Command and control is a hybrid of Navy and PDF, though I don't recall if the General in overall theatre command assigned to save the planet by the crusade fleet is actually a naval officer or a guard officer originally.

The power structures of the Imperium are... complicated!

 


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#13
Firedrake Cordova

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I don't recall if the General in overall theatre command assigned to save the planet by the crusade fleet is actually a naval officer or a guard officer originally.

I don't believe Lord Militant Humel's background has ever been detailed..?

 

the Phantine (Guard) are subsumed to Navy command ... The power structures of the Imperium are... complicated!

Who'd'a thunk it? laugh.png  Still, best not try to work out who is in charge of the Phantine, it'd likely involve both the office of the lords militant and the Commisariat, and no-one's got time for that :lol: (apologies to those who haven't read Double Eagle, although, you should smile.png)


Edited by Firedrake Cordova, 25 February 2020 - 07:27 PM.

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#14
Arendious

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I'm reminded that A} 'Double Eagle' is worth a re-read, and B} we're woefully underserved in the Aeronautica fiction department.

While I appreciate the effort to keep things loose (for the players sake), I really think it's unfortunate that neither this article, or 'Rynn's World' go into any meaningful depth. If we had lots of examples from the fiction, this wouldn't be such an issue - we could infer a lot from the fiction. Instead, we have a simplistic stack of names for vague gatherings.

Guess I expected a little more from the SG team.

Edited by Arendious, 26 February 2020 - 02:50 AM.

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"Take this, thy reflector belt, that the Emperor's Holy Light will shine in all the places that you go."  ~Commissar Lemay, Imperial Flying Corpsgallery_48988_6285_18080.png


#15
Lucerne

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Isn't double eagle getting a full supplement for AI later?


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#16
Qkhitai

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Isn't double eagle getting a full supplement for AI later?

 

Where did you hear this? Sounds like a strange move, as BL stuff doesn't get ported over to the tabletop very often. And one would imagine Abnett would have to be involved with anything concerning his creation, which hasn't typically happened before regarding translating BL fluff into GW games. I could see him being drafted in to write up some stuff about the Phantine, but I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if we got a full blown AI supplement out of it. Although, rather against the prevailing winds of 40k, it seems AI is focusing on pre-M42 conflicts as opposed to stuff in the current timeline, so I guess something to do with the Sabbat Worlds would fit that mould at least.



#17
Beaky Brigade

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A Enothis Campaign book would be cool, but it's probably more complicated than it may seem, author involvement notwithstanding.

The book has a few 'Abnett-verse' elements such as the outclassed PDF aircraft or Chaos aircraft that may be unique to the Sabbat Worlds (Hell Razor and Tormentor, though the Hell Razor seems identical to the more well known Hell Blade) which may not be suitable addition to the main cannon or fit with what the studio wants to add.

I would guess a book set during one of the Black Crusades or the Fall of Cadia would be more likely, or perhaps they'll revisit Vraks in some form?

It would be nice to see some Phantine content, perhaps it's more suitable for a white dwarf or WHC article than a full book?





 


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#18
Qkhitai

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Well if they continue the pattern of releasing these box games, we have to wonder just how long they can keep doing Imperials vs X, because they'll run out of new Imperial planes to release eventually. I mean, shy of the classic Lightning design, it looks like we'll have most of the Imperial Navy aircraft all done when Taros drops. We might get a classic Imperial and/or Space Marine vs Chaos campaign, but if that were the case one would have to imagine a xenos vs xenos campaign would be pretty much inevitable after that.


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#19
Arendious

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Necrons vs Eldar feels like a possible all-xenos box. A Drukhari v. Aeldari "webway series" box seems viable, and offers something to Harlequin and Ynnari players. (Though with the mention of Eldar vs Orks already, I think maybe we'll see that pairing for Ork Wave 2.)

Unless there's a surprise in the Vulture or Lightning rules, we still haven't seen any scouts appear. So we may new Imperial airframes yet.
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"Take this, thy reflector belt, that the Emperor's Holy Light will shine in all the places that you go."  ~Commissar Lemay, Imperial Flying Corpsgallery_48988_6285_18080.png


#20
Firedrake Cordova

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Personally, I'd like to see (Dark) Eldar, Chaos (with rules for traitor PDF/Navy elements*), possibly more Orks.  I actually kinda don't want to see Space Marines (heresy, I know!).

 

* the idea of a Navy group that's fallen to the Genestealer Cults is now in my head ...

 

It would be nice to see some Phantine content, perhaps it's more suitable for a white dwarf or WHC article than a full book?

Although the Phantine background does give the option for some new planes (Magog & Behemoth bombers, Shrike dive-bomber), they'd be completely new models, so I agree that it's doubtful they'd go in that direction, even if I would like to see what a Shrike looked like (I'm not a fan of the Avenger model, due to the engine placement).



#21
Arendious

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If we never got Marine flyers, I'd not shed a tear.

"Shrike dive-bomber" - 38,000 years, a million worlds with unique atmospheres, multi-spectral sensors that can fit inside a human skull... And a purpose-built aircraft for a bombing technique that was iffy even with dumb bombs.

"Take this, thy reflector belt, that the Emperor's Holy Light will shine in all the places that you go."  ~Commissar Lemay, Imperial Flying Corpsgallery_48988_6285_18080.png


#22
Qkhitai

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True, I'm sure there aren't many folks clamouring for Stormhawks laugh.png A Xiphon would be cool though, even if its doesn't show up much (or at all?) in 40k, and a Thunderhawk would be interesting as a campaign piece, if nothing else. I'm likewise not really too interested in seeing or buying any Space Marine flyers for AI, but never hurts to have them, and on the topic of lore, it would be a good opportunity to flesh out more of how that part of the Astartes warmachine functions.


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#23
Firedrake Cordova

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"Shrike dive-bomber" - 38,000 years, a million worlds with unique atmospheres, multi-spectral sensors that can fit inside a human skull... And a purpose-built aircraft for a bombing technique that was iffy even with dumb bombs.

Shush with your reasoning and logic ... if it ends up looking like a jet-powered Stuka, it'll have rule-of-cool-appeal laugh.png :)


Edited by Firedrake Cordova, 27 February 2020 - 05:04 PM.

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#24
Arendious

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Shush with your reasoning and logic ... if it ends up looking like a jet-powered Stuka, it'll have rule-of-cool-appeal laugh.png :)


Argument accepted. 😏
But I demand under-wing long-barrel autocannons!
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"Take this, thy reflector belt, that the Emperor's Holy Light will shine in all the places that you go."  ~Commissar Lemay, Imperial Flying Corpsgallery_48988_6285_18080.png





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