Paladin nerf

[Sweetcurse]

I’m genuinely wondering how GW will nerf paladins in the near future. I know I’m being paranoid, lol. Mental exercise here though, thinking probably they’ll increase points, maybe limit unit sizes? I’m just messing around with this question but I do wonder if they will and if they do what exactly they’d nerf.

[Seizeman]

Grey knights won't ever be relevant enough to deserve any nerfs, specially when there's stuff around like eldar and space marines (wich have not been nerfed in half a year despite having an 80% winrate).  The gw balance team is stupid enough that they could give paladins a point increase in chapter approved 2020, but in any case that would happen in 8 months, so it does not seem like they are at any risk in the near future.

 

There's a high chance 9th comes out before the end of the year anyway.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Seizeman

[Skywrath]

Or they don't get nerfed at all.

[Captain Coolpants]

I actually can't see them nerfing them. Although survivable.... They're just that, survivable. They still shoot and hit exactly the same ad the rest of the army.

 

Other armies have super survivable staying power units or abilities.

[Seizeman]

Well, do you remember when grey knight terminators were the worst unit in the whole game, yet they got their points INCREASED in chapter approved? The GW guys are capable of anything.

[Corvus Fortis]

In my last game paladin unit was reduced to 5 bodies in a single tyranid shooting phase. Then, after a couple of melee phases, they were removed by warriors. And yes, they had all possible buffs stacked on them. Paladins won't attract any attention unless they roll through tournaments like SM now. And GW still hesitant to do anything to posterboys. I am sure, the meta will adapt to new grey knights soon enough.

 

P.S.: Please, avoid using topic names like this. You really should've added "Possible" or "Thoughts on possible" before the actual headline.

[superwill]

Grey knights won't ever be relevant enough to deserve any nerfs, specially when there's stuff around like eldar and space marines (wich have not been nerfed in half a year despite having an 80% winrate).  The gw balance team is stupid enough that they could give paladins a point increase in chapter approved 2020, but in any case that would happen in 8 months, so it does not seem like they are at any risk in the near future.

 

There's a high chance 9th comes out before the end of the year anyway.

Just curious, 80% winrate in what?

 

The stats out of the LVO had SM down as being the highest winrate with 59%, but curious whether there are wider stats that show a more dramatic number?

[Chronos Darkhelmet]

 

Grey knights won't ever be relevant enough to deserve any nerfs, specially when there's stuff around like eldar and space marines (wich have not been nerfed in half a year despite having an 80% winrate).  The gw balance team is stupid enough that they could give paladins a point increase in chapter approved 2020, but in any case that would happen in 8 months, so it does not seem like they are at any risk in the near future.

 

There's a high chance 9th comes out before the end of the year anyway.

Just curious, 80% winrate in what?

 

The stats out of the LVO had SM down as being the highest winrate with 59%, but curious whether there are wider stats that show a more dramatic number?

 

AFAIK, that rate skyrockets to 80% when excluding mirror matches (i.e. just taking into account Marines vs rest-of-the-Galaxy) ;)

[Phiasco]

It could also be as simple as increasing the command point cost of their useful stratagems.

[Captain_Krash]

The big issue at least in ITC is that there isn't really a large representation of Grey Knights available as no one really plays them on top tables. But if you follow Lawrence from Table Top tactics he crushes it. Regardless I don't see any nerfs for Grey Knights Period. 

 

Krash

[Seizeman]

The big issue at least in ITC is that there isn't really a large representation of Grey Knights available as no one really plays them on top tables. But if you follow Lawrence from Table Top tactics he crushes it. Regardless I don't see any nerfs for Grey Knights Period. 

 

Krash

 

GKs were the 4th army with the most top4 placings in february, only surpassed by space marines, craftworlds and chaos marines, and that's with a relatively low number of players taking them and before the space marine nerf.

 

I'm quite sure they are just below space marines in terms of power, and above everything else.

[Trollbeard]

Do you know which tournaments had more GK lists then usual? I would like to see some of those lists.

 

And how do people view GK in terms on power now compared to most other factions??

[Seizeman]

If by "usual" you are referring to the months before PA, I'd imagine all tournaments have more Gk players than usuals, as their numbers before would be very close to zero. As for results, you can check 40kstats and see that most tournaments from the past weeks have at least one GK list in the top4. Pretty much every list is essentially the same double paladin bomb + 6 strike squads.

 

As for power levels, it is too early to tell how much the space marine nerf has impacted the meta, but GK seem to be in the top tier, with space marines and eldar. In my experience (playing ITC competitive games), I've only had issues against pre-nerf marines (and managed to beat them anyway). Astra militarum with big units of bullgrins have been somewhat challenging but manageable. Eldar (they are really good but it seems like you have all the tools to counter them), Sisters of battle, Dark eldar, Demons, CSM, Death guard and Orks have been surprisingly easy to defeat. I haven't played against Tyranids or Tau, but I can't imagine them being too difficult. Adeptus mechanicus could be difficult, but I haven't played against them either.

 

I have not been able to play against post-faq marines, but it seems it would be a pretty balanced matchup.

[Corvus Fortis]

Needs are a bit challenging, because of lots of anti-psyker tricks, one of the best out-of-los shooting in the game, ignore ap-2 adaptation and inconvenient weapon profiles. But nothing unbeatable.

[Skywrath]

Needs are a bit challenging, because of lots of anti-psyker tricks, one of the best out-of-los shooting in the game, ignore ap-2 adaptation and inconvenient weapon profiles. But nothing unbeatable.

 

Don't Inquisitors have anti-psyker abilities come to think of things? And if so, then running one in a SM detachment should be easy as pie for some imperial soup circa 8th edition action. 

[Trollbeard]

@Seizeman, would you mind sharing your list that you have been having success with ? Or have you been playing the dual paladin bomb list as well?

[Seizeman]

Yeah, dual paladin bomb, as usual. 

 

2x 10 paladins with halberds and bolters and 1-2 staves per unit. (one with hammerhand, one with gate)

6x5 strikes with halberds and bolters. ( 2 with vortex, 4 with gate)

2 librarians with staves and shields, one with each relic (shard with empyrean domination+warp shaping, matrix with edict imperator and inner fire)

Apothecary (sanctuary)

Brother captain with hammer and psycannon, and First to the fray (astral aim)

Draigo (armoured resilience ethereal manipulation)

 

Most people are still running a chaplain instead of the second librarian because that's what Lawrence Baker used on the first list that top4'd, but the librarian is just so much more reliable.

 

As for Draigo, I tested the original list with Voldus (proxied) and he did well, but, when the league I play in started, he was still being painted, so I used Draigo instead and I'm really pleased with his performance. Voldus' extra power often translates to an extra smite, which is fine, but Draigo's improved rerolls have been quite significant and, more importantly, the extra wound and invulnerable save make him a lot more durable, therefore a lot more reliable by himself, which is something you want in a strong melee unit. For those reasons, I'm going to keep playing Draigo.

 

About having psycannons on the paladins, I've found tide of convergence to be worthless unless you maximize the damage you do with it, and for that you need to shoot with both paladin units, both of them using stratagems. In those circumstances, full bolters are a lot more powerful and reliable, while being cheaper, so I see no reason to waste points on psycannons.

[Trollbeard]

So do you use edict Imperator to shoot and use pysbolt in the pyschic phase and then again on the other paladin unit in the shooting phase while ToC is up?

[Seizeman]

Yes, that or using edict to shoot and then changing tides, depending on the situation.

[Skywrath]

Can we address my previous question whether Inquisitors have anti-psyker abilities?

[Seizeman]

Inquisitors do not have any particular anti-psyker abilities, just denies like any other psychic.