Masterful Marksmanship + Transhuman Phys

[9x19 Parabellum]

So a unit of Sternguard shoots at an opposing Marine player's Tacs/Intercessors/Scouts (ie, a T4 infantry unit) who uses Transhuman physiology.

 

What is the end result?

 

TransPhys says an "unmodified wound roll of 1-3 always fails, irrespective of any abilities that the weapon or the model making that attack may have."

 

Emphasis on "unmodified"...does that mean a "modified" 3 (with the +1 from MM) would still wound the target?

[Kallas]

If you roll a 3, you fail before you apply any modifiers. Therefore Masterful Marksmanship will have no effect against any T4 Marines with Transhuman Physiology applied.

[9x19 Parabellum]

If you roll a 3, you fail before you apply any modifiers. Therefore Masterful Marksmanship will have no effect against any T4 Marines with Transhuman Physiology applied.

 

Why wouldn't they just say "a roll of 1-3 always fails"? Period/full stop.

 

If your interpretation is correct, in what other scenario could you roll a 3 and have it wound?

Edited February 28, 2020 by 9x19 Parabellum

[Kallas]

Because a roll of 1-3 is a final result; that is, the roll plus/minus any modifiers.

 

An unmodified roll doesn't matter if you have modifiers or not; you've rolled (and after any rerolls) the result, so the +/- doesn't matter.

[MajorNese]

 

If you roll a 3, you fail before you apply any modifiers. Therefore Masterful Marksmanship will have no effect against any T4 Marines with Transhuman Physiology applied.

 

Why wouldn't they just say "a roll of 1-3 always fails"? Period/full stop.

An unmodified roll of 1-3 always fails. Full stop. Doesn't matter what the modified roll would be.

Modifiers like Masterful Marksmanship are entirely ignored when it says "unmodified", and not even meant with the rest of the rules text about ignoring abilities.

 

Ignoring abilities is listed so it overrules any ability that always wounds on a certain unmodified roll.

Otherwise, it would be entirely undefined how that interacts, which (functionally identical) rule overrides the other.

[Hymnblade]

If you've played D&D, you may be familiar with the term "natural 20", ie, it literally says 20 on the physical dice. GW uses the term "unmodified" instead of "natural".

 

Note that if you have a GK unit with Armored Resilience (-1 to wound rolls) and Transhuman Physiology getting shot by something that usually wounds on 3+, an unmodified 4 still succeeds: it's not an unmodified 1-3 so TH doesn't apply, and it ends up at 3 which passes.

[Panzer]

 

If you roll a 3, you fail before you apply any modifiers. Therefore Masterful Marksmanship will have no effect against any T4 Marines with Transhuman Physiology applied.

 

Why wouldn't they just say "a roll of 1-3 always fails"? Period/full stop.

 

If your interpretation is correct, in what other scenario could you roll a 3 and have it wound?

 

 

Because now when there's another effect that modifies the wound roll by -1, rolling a 4 would still wound if the weapon has enough strength. If they'd write it like you suggest it would fail as well.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Thanks guys, your explanations are helpful!

[Captain Idaho]

Also means Blood Angels don't get the benefit from their +1 to wound either.

[Panzer]

We wouldn't no matter the wording. A modified 1-3 with a +1 to wound is the same as an unmodified 1-3. ^^

[Captain Idaho]

Although a modified 1-3 is the same as an unmodified 1-3, the key word there is unmodified because it means if a modified 4 is rolled it still fails (because it was modified from a 3).