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Working on a new Ultramarines list for competitive play

Ultramarines Strategy Tactics New FAQ

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#1
Captain Idaho

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Since the FAQ dropped I've been hammering out flexible lists (Emperor bless Battlescribe) and trying to come up with answers in competitive play.

Now, it's important to mention my preference in competitive play is likely different to that of many people. I'm there to win, but my way. I ensure my list interests me, has theme and is fun for me to play. This usually resulting in slightly less optimised lists since fun to me means varied. I am a good player and if I took the latest netlist like anyone else I reckon I could win tournaments.

So with the above being said, I usually aim to win a few games minimum and have some close games against the rest. Even if I'm not going to win, I would like some cinematic moments and my opponent going away with a bloody nose.

On that basis, here is what I've worked on at 1750pts, likely to be played at events like Throne of Skulls. I might discuss 2000pts later, for use in other events including ITC events.

++ Battalion Detachment ++

**Chapter Selection**: Ultramarines

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ Stratagems +

Relics of the Chapter [-2CP]: 2x Number of extra Relics

+ HQ +

Warlord

Librarian [88pts]: Scryer's Gaze, Telepathic Assault, Psychic Shackles, Bolt pistol, Force stave, Psychic Mastery, Seal of Oath,

- Stratagem: Chief Librarian

Librarian [88pts]: 5) Psychic Shackles, 6) Empyric Channeling, Bolt pistol, Force stave

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [65pts]
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle
. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

Scout Squad [65pts]
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle
. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

Tactical Squad [96pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combi-plasma
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP ++

**Chapter Selection**: Ultramarines

+ HQ +

Captain [107pts]: Jump Pack, Plasma pistol, Relic blade, Sunwrath Pistol

Techmarine [45pts]: Boltgun, Chainsword, Servo-arm

+ Troops +

Tactical Squad [81pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combi-plasma
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

Tactical Squad [81pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combi-plasma
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

Tactical Squad [91pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combi-plasma
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher

+ Elites +

Chapter Champion [60pts]: Blade of Triumph, Champion's blade, Master-crafted power sword

Contemptor Dreadnought [132pts]: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought combat weapon, Kheres pattern assault cannon

Relic Deredeo Dreadnought [207pts]: Hellfire plasma carronade, Twin heavy bolter

Sternguard Veteran Squad [118pts]
- 7× Space Marine Veteran
- Veteran Sergeant: Lightning Claw, Special issue boltgun

+ Heavy Support +

Devastator Squad [163pts]:
- Armorium Cherub
- 5× Space Marine
- Space Marine Sergeant: Bolter
- 4× Grav Cannons

Hunter [75pts]

Hunter [75pts]

+ Dedicated Transport +

Rhino: Storm bolter

Rhino: Storm bolter

++ Total: 10CP, 1,748pts ++


Let me know what I was thinking with the list:

• The firepower comes from the Hunters, Devastators and Deredeo plus a spread throughout the Tacticals.

• The list generates a surprising number of Mortal Wounds. 2 Librarians, one of which channelling into the Chief Librarian, both dish out pain including D6 super Smite on an 8 potentially. There are also 2 Heavy Bolters in there for Hellfire Shells and a Missile Launcher for Flakk Missiles, just in case.

- The list has a Captain for supporting either the Devastator squad or Sternguard as required. Folk don't often like Relic Pistols but his Sunwrath Pistol is actually very much useful. His mobility is key.

- Strategum support is key to this list. I will often use Transhuman Physiology to keep alive my characters and even the new rules for Duty Eternal are still useful. I expect to use Hellfire Shells, Flakk Missile, Masterful Marksmanship, Gravitic Amplification and Skyfire in many games.

I also to use Martial Precision against certain opponents to net an automatic Lascannon hit.

- The attacking force is the 2 Rhinos with Sternguard and Chapter Champion in one, the Devastator squad in the other and Captain suppoeting. The Contemptor plays distraction and runs forward with this force.

- Psychic power is a neat trick on the list. The Chief Librarian has a decent chance at getting off both of his powers thanks to Psychic Mastery and Empyric Channelling. This brings me more Command Points and the capacity to target characters, as well as source for Mortal Wounds and messing with an opponent's movement.

- Note I lost the Aiolos Missile Launcher and Ironclad to make room for 2 Hunters. They've performed brilliantly in every game for me, through virtue of Toughness 8 and super accurate Lascannon shots.

Over all, I am happy with the list. I don't think it'll win any LVOs anytime soon but I think people will be surprised how effective it is. It can afford to lose Troops and still have board control, whilst having plenty of vehicles to saturate fire selection for an opponent.

Crucially it has redundancy in capacity. Take out the Hunters and the Deredeo and I likely will have gotten close enough to hurt you with Rhino squads and Contemptor. Take out the Troops choices and you aren't concentrating on the rest moving forward. Take out the attacking force and the supporting fire will whittle you down.

Knights are a danger as always but I think with the Seal of Oath I can deal with one quickly and poor attention into a second.

The Chapter Champion is a wild card in that people don't expect him to do much and yet he can be charging turn 3 or even 2 fairly often. Whatever he hits will hurt and he can help deal with a Knight with the character keyword (which they all have).

Lists that worry me most are Astra Millitarum tank and artillery divisions that get 1st turn, Tau castles and Ork gun lines with Lootas.

***

So let me know what everyone thinks on this. What do you think I should be worried about? How do you propose I deal with the armies I am worried about? Is there anything you like here or dislike?
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#2
Black Blow Fly

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I really like this list as it’s well rounded and very tactical. The psykers are going to do some serious work !


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fortis Fortuna adiuvat.

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Blood and Honor!


#3
Captain Idaho

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Thanks mate.

Yeah the Psykers are pretty useful to the army and I think will act as really disruptive element to an opponent's plans.
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#4
Black Blow Fly

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Just keep them out of harm’s way and they will always shine. Getting that super smite is always a hoot.

fortis Fortuna adiuvat.

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#5
Captain Idaho

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I actually think I've never managed a super Smite in all my games. Ever.
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#6
Black Blow Fly

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It’ll happen.


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fortis Fortuna adiuvat.

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Blood and Honor!


#7
Brother Lunkhead

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Hail Brother Captain,

 

Love your Old Marine army list (with tactical squads wub.gif too woot.gif)thumbsup.gif It's good to see that some folk still honor "real" Space Marinesmsn-wink.gif I'll be very interested to see how your list works in game. I'm especially interested in how your Deredeo Dread does (I've got two that I'm building for my XIII Legion army).

 

I like to win too, but I also like to experiment with variety and not stick to one optimized list. Keep us posted on your game results and thanks for sharing your list.


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#8
Captain Idaho

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Thanks brothers.

Regarding the Tactical Marines... I've had some real success with them. Their heavy weapon support to the army was outstanding.
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#9
Captain Idaho

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I've been toying with ideas in my head and I'm torn on the following:

Captain [107pts]: Jump Pack, Plasma pistol, Relic blade, Sunwrath Pistol

Captain on Bike [101pts]: Vengeance of Ultramar, Power Fist, Hero of the Chapter - Paragon of War

Now, the issue I've got is a question of Command Points. I believe the Vengeance Captain is better in many ways thanks to his Mortal Wounds generation. 12 shots, re-rolls for wounds and the benefit of the Tactical Doctrine, meaning he will cause quite a lot of hurt. He gels quite well with the purpose of the Sternguard and Devastator squad as well.

Costing me another Command Point though? 2 Command Points in 1 model and the alternative is potentially no Command Points if I want to downgrade the pistol.

People might not think a single CP is anything but I burn through mine quickly. Against Blood Angels I used 10 in a single turn trying to keep models alive and hit hard back. That game I only gained back a single CP from Scryer's Gaze, as I wasn't using Psychich Channelling or a Chief Librarian, so perhaps it won't matter going forward with this list?

I do also like the idea of a Sunwrath Pistol. 2 shots at S8, D2 is nothing to be sniffed at and could contribute quite the damage to someone rather unexpectedly.
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#10
Black Blow Fly

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I didn’t realize the relic pistol is two shots... nice !

 

I think the vengeance Captain is the better of the two.


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#11
Captain Idaho

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Is it worth the extra CP, you reckon?
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#12
Black Blow Fly

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Definitely. You’ve got Scryers Gaze to regen CP.


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#13
Emicus

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You pay 2 cp for the sunwrath pistol, but no chapter master?

Heckin' Stalkers?

You chose a warlord trait to know an extra power, instead of recycling cp, to pick a regen cp power that eats a vital casting slot.

I don't get it :(

#14
Captain Idaho

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I don't pay 2 CP for the Sunwrath Pistol, it is a single Relic choice so an extra CP (as the Blade of Triumph is crucial fo the Champion).

I pay 2 CPs for the Vengeance Captain, 1 for the Relic and 1 for the Paragon of War Warlord Trait. That's kinda his pull really. Otherwise what's the point eh.

Chapter Master is tempting if I drop the Relic Sunwrath Pistol on the 1st Captain to save a CP. Might be a good idea there.

***

I wouldn't go less than 9 starting CPs, however. 10 is my preference but generating one with Scryer's Gaze most turns is achievable.

Let me explain my thinking:

Solo Ultramarines Librarians are worse than those of other Chapters when using our own specific powers, since some of the best are high in Warp Charge cost. What makes our Librarians worthwhile is when you can mitigate this weakness.

A 2nd Librarian with Psychic Channelling and the Chief Librarian Strategum means there is a much better chance of pulling off difficult Psychic powers.

Telepathic Assault is a great power against the right targets, whilst Scryer's Gaze is a neat way of generating a CP each turn, but only with the above support as otherwise it is too unlikely to be counted on.

The reason Adept of the Codex isn't so useful now is because it can only restore a single CP a turn. Since I burn off so many in the first few turns of a game, Adept of the Codex is all but useless after turn 1.

Plus, there's a fairly good chance of getting off a super Smite with +3 to cast, followed up by Telepathic Assault. :)

***

Heckin Stalkers?

Edited by Captain Idaho, 10 March 2020 - 08:43 PM.

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#15
Captain Idaho

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Updated list, as I messed up the last copy posted above:

++ Battalion Detachment ++

**Chapter Selection**: Ultramarines

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ Stratagems +

Relics of the Chapter [-2CP]: 2x Number of extra Relics

+ HQ +

Warlord

Librarian [88pts]: Scryer's Gaze, Telepathic Assault, Psychic Shackles, Bolt pistol, Force stave, Psychic Mastery

- Stratagem: Chief Librarian

Librarian [88pts]: 5) Psychic Shackles, 6) Empyric Channeling, Bolt pistol, Force stave

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [65pts]
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle
. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

Scout Squad [65pts]
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle
. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

Tactical Squad [96pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combi-plasma
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP ++

**Chapter Selection**: Ultramarines

+ HQ +

Captain on a bike [101pts]: Power Fist, Vengeance of Ultramar. Paragon of War Warlord Trait (1CP - Hero of the Chapter)

Techmarine [45pts]: Boltgun, Chainsword, Servo-arm

+ Troops +

Tactical Squad [72pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword and Storm Bolter
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

Tactical Squad [72pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword and Storm Bolter
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

Tactical Squad [91pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combi-plasma
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher

+ Elites +

Chapter Champion [60pts]: Blade of Triumph, Champion's blade, Master-crafted power sword

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [154pts]: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought combat weapon, Kheres pattern assault cannon

Relic Deredeo Dreadnought [207pts]: Hellfire plasma carronade, Twin heavy bolter

Sternguard Veteran Squad [118pts]
- 7× Space Marine Veteran
- Veteran Sergeant: Lightning Claw, Special issue boltgun

+ Heavy Support +

Devastator Squad [163pts]:
- Armorium Cherub
- 5× Space Marine
- Space Marine Sergeant: Bolter
- 4× Grav Cannons

Hunter [75pts]

Hunter [75pts]

+ Dedicated Transport +

Rhino: Storm bolter

Rhino: Storm bolter

++ Total: 10CP, 1,739pts


I dropped the Seal of Oath as I wasn't getting the most out of it anyway, since I don't like to clump my units around a single character. The re-rolls to wound wound be nice against a Knight for the likes of the Deredeo, so I might yet add it back in, but right now I'm comfortable without it.

Relic Contemptor is there to soak attention away from the Rhinos. Folk are always more scared of him than they should be and with 12 wounds and a Techmarine legging it alongside him, as well as his superior survivability, he should be much more useful to the army (at least as a sacrificial lamb).

He might get a Multi-Melta since his job is running up the table like a World Eater - make enemies even more worried about him.
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#16
CCE1981

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You put the Seal of Oath on a Captain or Lieutenant so you can drop Inspiring Command on him to extend the range of of his aura abilities, such as Seal of Oath, 3”. A 9” Aura is HUGE!!!! I run Vox Espiritum on my Gravis Chapter Master.....it would feel cheaty if I didn’t constantly face Iron Hands, even then only 60% of the time it feels cheaty.
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#17
Captain Idaho

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That's a decent idea. I'll play test it alongside the Captains options I talked about.
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#18
Captain Idaho

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Interesting development - after reading through GW's own model requirement guide for their events I spied the following:

Can I still use an older version of a model?

This can depend on what the model is, however in most cases older miniatures are permitted ensuring they are still appropriate for organised play. As such, they must adhere to WYSIWYG and be mounted on the base size of the current model. 

In some cases, you may need to be flexible with regards to line of sight and measuring if the current miniature is much larger than that which you are planning to use.


I followed this information up by contacting GW for clarification and they indeed confirmed Tigurius and Calgar can be used as the modern versions, provided the bases are correct.

This changes everything in a competitively environmentally. Tournament often follow or a lighter on the standards of GW's own tournaments.

This means I can use the totally OP Tigurius for competitive play and utilise my original model, which I prefer. (I have already committed to not rebuying my Ultramarines hence the lack of Primaris)

So the list changes somewhat (barely) because of this turn of events. Tigurius is an auto-include and thus I save CPs to get the Psychic phase I was going for, with free re-rolls. I had to juggle stuff around to find the points of course.
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