Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Ranged or Close Combat?

CSM Heretic Astartes

  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1
Soulhunter1995

Soulhunter1995

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 192 posts
  • Location:The Darkest Depths of the Eye etc Cheshire, United Kingdom

Hail followers for the true gods, I am currently in the process of creating a Company of Misery force and I am having a problem as to whether or not to have my CSM squads close combat based or ranged? 

 

Any tips/advice from the experts of this forum would be much appreciated happy.png


Blood Angels 3rd Company 8th Edition - Won /Draw /Loss : 2/1/3


#2
dice4thedicegod

dice4thedicegod

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 715 posts
Basic csm won’t be good at either but probably ranged... so that they can function as cheap objective campers

#3
Tallarn Commander

Tallarn Commander

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 845 posts
  • Location:Kirkland, WA (US)
My preferred CSM configuration is 3 squads of 5 with lascannon. It's a cheap mandatory battalion troop tax that can hold backfield objectives and sometimes do quite a bit of damage in a game.

I sometimes run squads of 10 CSM with 2 lascannons. In this configuration they benefit from Endless Cacophony and are far more durable than a similarly costed lascannon Havoc Squad. And with 2 heavy weapons they start to put out some respectable hurt over the course of a game. In this role they also remind me of the old Chaos Veterans of the old 3rd Edition Codex.
  • techsoldaten likes this

My Chaos Blog (Night Lords, World Eaters, Renegades & Heretics)    http://www.bolterand...ds-vs-tallarns/

 

My Imperial Guard Blog (Tallarn 23rd)   http://www.bolterand...larn-23rd-blog/

 

gallery_30308_9518_8793.jpggallery_30308_9518_10060.jpgCall_of_Chaos_11_Banner_01b.jpgETL_VI_Banner_Primus_Interpares_Chaos.jp


#4
Doom Herald

Doom Herald

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 708 posts
  • Location:North Carolina, USA
I dont know of anyone who uses melee CSM, unless they're trying to use their Shadowspear models that can only be assembled that way.

#5
WarriorFish

WarriorFish

    ++ PRÆFECT SOCIORUM ++

  • +++ADMINISTRATUM+++
  • 22,483 posts
  • Location:Blighty
  • Faction: Hunter Legion

If you want combat CSM, it's best to run a Legion/trait that can improve them in combat (I run EC for Slaanesh) to get more mileage. Even so, not a great idea for a more competitive game so it depends on your meta. They can do well enough in casual games, especially against the right opponents but otherwise you'd be better off giving them a ranged focus. With their bolter volleys and heavy weapons they can do decent work smile.png


gallery_48988_15465_8206.pnggallery_30308_9518_1551.pnggallery_30308_3239_3185.pnggallery_30308_9518_17558.pnggallery_30308_3239_193.pnggallery_30308_3239_17729.png
Painting Oaths Completed:
gallery_30308_3239_28.gifgallery_30308_3239_28.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_84.gifgallery_30308_3239_42.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_42.gifgallery_30308_3239_28.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_42.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gif
gallery_30308_3239_42.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_42.gif
In the grim predictability of online 40k, there can be only Sun Tzu quotes

SM Ironclad | IG Stormies | =][= Stormies | AM Armigers

CSM Terminators | TSons Rubrics | Daemons Daemonettes

DE Warriors | Tyranids Hive Tyrant


#6
Gederas

Gederas

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 5,183 posts
  • Location:Pawtucket, Rhode Island

Pretty much what everyone else has said:

Don't run normal Chaos Marines as melee dudes. Chaos Marines have a dedicated melee unit, one of the best in the game imo, for that. Which are Khorne Berzerkers.


  • techsoldaten likes this

#7
Soulhunter1995

Soulhunter1995

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 192 posts
  • Location:The Darkest Depths of the Eye etc Cheshire, United Kingdom
Many thanks for the advice fellow chaos followers Posted Image I had a feeling that this was gonna be the case but I appreciate the feedback, it`s a good job I haven`t built them yet Posted Image


Apologies for the double post, but I`m assuming heavy weapon wise, lascannons are the best option? Posted Image

Blood Angels 3rd Company 8th Edition - Won /Draw /Loss : 2/1/3


#8
WarriorFish

WarriorFish

    ++ PRÆFECT SOCIORUM ++

  • +++ADMINISTRATUM+++
  • 22,483 posts
  • Location:Blighty
  • Faction: Hunter Legion

Depends on what you need, as ever! Lascannons are good for long ranged heavy fire power, something CSM are usually in need of. Does make them a bit pricier accordingly however. Missile Launchers have some versatility but anti-personnel needs rest on the other parts of your army also, the option is nice though if you're not sure about dedicating.


  • Soulhunter1995 likes this

gallery_48988_15465_8206.pnggallery_30308_9518_1551.pnggallery_30308_3239_3185.pnggallery_30308_9518_17558.pnggallery_30308_3239_193.pnggallery_30308_3239_17729.png
Painting Oaths Completed:
gallery_30308_3239_28.gifgallery_30308_3239_28.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_84.gifgallery_30308_3239_42.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_42.gifgallery_30308_3239_28.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_42.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gif
gallery_30308_3239_42.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_42.gif
In the grim predictability of online 40k, there can be only Sun Tzu quotes

SM Ironclad | IG Stormies | =][= Stormies | AM Armigers

CSM Terminators | TSons Rubrics | Daemons Daemonettes

DE Warriors | Tyranids Hive Tyrant


#9
Soulhunter1995

Soulhunter1995

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 192 posts
  • Location:The Darkest Depths of the Eye etc Cheshire, United Kingdom

I was leaning towards the missile launchers to be honest because of the flexibility :) however the threat of dual plasma & combi on the champion is tempting happy.png


Blood Angels 3rd Company 8th Edition - Won /Draw /Loss : 2/1/3


#10
Closet Skeleton

Closet Skeleton

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,493 posts
  • Location:Hertfordshire
  • Faction: Black Templars

Chainsword and bolt pistol marines are quite good in big units but they need buffs. I've had a unit of 15 black legion ones with soulrender portent from a dark apostle and the black legion +1 attack stratagem butcher quite a few first turn chargers that under-estimated them.

 

Berzerkers need rhinos, but only need buffs to hurt stuff they're bad at.


Edited by Closet Skeleton, 13 March 2020 - 01:11 PM.


#11
Nemesor Tyriks

Nemesor Tyriks

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 3,521 posts
  • Location:Ohio

I like close combat CSM, but I am not playing competitively.  I usually have some of each in my lists, though.



#12
MegaVolt87

MegaVolt87

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,465 posts
  • Faction: Iron Warriors

I dont know of anyone who uses melee CSM, unless they're trying to use their Shadowspear models that can only be assembled that way.

 

Spare bolters + cutting off the pistol corrects the issue, time consuming though.  


  • Doom Herald likes this
gallery_154982_15362_23624.jpg

My Iron Warriors Project   Guns for the guns god!, Bullets for the Brass throne!


#13
dice4thedicegod

dice4thedicegod

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 715 posts


I dont know of anyone who uses melee CSM, unless they're trying to use their Shadowspear models that can only be assembled that way.


Spare bolters + cutting off the pistol corrects the issue, time consuming though.

I think that, unfortunately, you have to cut off the chainsword (it’s pistol & bolter or pistol & chainsword, right?)

#14
MegaVolt87

MegaVolt87

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,465 posts
  • Faction: Iron Warriors

I dont know of anyone who uses melee CSM, unless they're trying to use their Shadowspear models that can only be assembled that way.


Spare bolters + cutting off the pistol corrects the issue, time consuming though.

I think that, unfortunately, you have to cut off the chainsword (it’s pistol & bolter or pistol & chainsword, right?)

If everyone has a bolter it won't really matter if you use them as a bolter squad. I have modeled CSM like that since forever and no one has ever cared after they saw my list. Plus it looks cool.
gallery_154982_15362_23624.jpg

My Iron Warriors Project   Guns for the guns god!, Bullets for the Brass throne!


#15
techsoldaten

techsoldaten

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 617 posts
  • Location:Eye of Terror

My $0.02.

 

CSM are for shooting, Cultists are for close combat.

 

Take 5 or 10 man squads with as many heavy weapons as possible. Word is out on the best heavy weapon for CSMs.

 

There's a thread about the merits of Chaincannons versus NuMarines. I don't have a link, but it's worth reading. I'm still thinking about it, but the argument was 8 shots at 24" outclasses Intercessors, even with doctrines.

 

I run a Black Legion gunline, nothing is better than 48" lascannons with rerolls to hit. I would take them over Havocs in most cases because of the ablative wounds.

 

The other option is autocannons, they can be useful but you mostly take them for the points. Lascannons are more expensive, you really need to commit to them to see much value. Autocannons, OTOH, are good for light work.


  • Tallarn Commander likes this

#16
Gree

Gree

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 4,492 posts

I would only consider taking CCW Marines in specific circumstances, such as if someone if playing mono-Slaanesh like Flawless Host or Emperor's Children and doesn't have access to Berzerkers.

 

Otherwise, ranged is better than CCW.


Index Astartes: Argent Fists.

Homebrew Chapter. WIP.


#17
dice4thedicegod

dice4thedicegod

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 715 posts
That’s interesting. I like the idea of 5 strong CSM for cheap troops. I have an aversion to dropping expensive heavy/special weapons on them... maybe I should reconsider.

Edited by dice4thedicegod, 20 March 2020 - 07:31 PM.


#18
d@n

d@n

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,187 posts
  • Faction: Spacewolves
A big squad of 20 close combat csm using red corsairs works well, because you can warp time them move twice advance and charge so they have to be dealt with. Then you just use the strat that bring them back next turn and do it again. It forces your opponent to prioritise wiping them out rather then whatever he wanted too. Give them the mark of khorne and you can use the strat that allows then to fight twice, not bezerkers but pretty good





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: CSM, Heretic Astartes

2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users