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Oldest GW Model


grailkeeper

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There are some good guesses in here (and some not so good ones :tongue.:) but nobody has got it yet. I'm 99% certain that these are the oldest models GW sells. They are Rogue Trader era Marine armour variants from the Armour Through the Ages set, so they pre-date anything from any other range.

99810101076_ArmourThroughAgesNEW01.jpg


They're so old that I don't actually know their release date, which is saying something because I have physical copies of the release WD from every other model mentioned in this thread, all bought when they were the current issue.

 

That being said, they are not the longest serving models* as they haven't been in continuous production. They disappeared for a long time, maybe as much as a decade - can't remember exactly because they were available on the bits order service until GW shut it down (which is why they disappeared) and were later re-released. The re-release is the reason that they now have modern plastic bolters and backpacks.

 

There is also Njal Stormcaller in power armour, who was released in Febuary 1993. He was proceded by Ragnar Blackmane and Ulrik the Slayer, who came out in December 1992, so Ragnar previously held the title. But they've both got resculpts finally. Njal was released in the same WD as the first battle report where Ragnar and Ghazgkull faced off, which seems fitting given the Saga of the Beast is right on our doorstep. Also the same WD that saw Eltharion debut for WFB, and he's about to debut in AoS with a new model. Funny how things come full circle.

 

However, Njal also wasn't available for a while, with only his much (much) newer terminator version being available. He's also an alternate sculpt, as the terminator version was originally a resculpt. So like the Armour Through the Ages set, he's technically older than other stuff, but has a newer version and hasn't been constantly available.

 

So, if we're discounting both of those, the "honour" belongs to the Servitors (specifically the two with servo-arms, not the heavy weapon variants they are bundled with, who came out in late 3rd ed/early 2000s). The servo-arm Servitors came out in March 1993, alongside the no longer produced original Iron Priest and Blood Angels Tactical Squad, and have been on sale since. The Terminator Runepriest was the last of the original Wolves, coming out in June 1993 (I can't find his release picture, just his "NEW" WD catalogue listing - £3.99 for anyone who cares :tongue.:).

 

One that's not been mentioned is Lord Skrolk (AoS Plague Priest) who came out in January 1994. Though there have been other Plague Priests released as part of the Screaming Bell/Plague Furnace kit.

 

Then there's the Warp Spiders, who were released alongside the first ever Codex Eldar in March 1994 and are the only models so far to have no newer options. Asurman, Karandras, Fuegan and the Avatar of Khaine were released in April 1994. Baharroth, Jain Zar (now resculpted) and Maugan Ra were May.

 

The Warlocks are not Rogue Trader. Most of the currently available Warlocks are sculpts from 3rd ed. I think they are McVey sculpts, which should tell some of you that they're definitely not as old as RT (McVey didn't sculpt until sometime in mid-late 3rd). In fact, one may even be 4th. The exceptions are the singing spear warlock (the one who's doing a little jig) and the warlock charging with his witch blade in a two handed grip, who both came out alongside the second run of Phoenix Lords in May 1994.

 

I don't know** the exact release date for the Skyre Accolytes aka Poinson Wind Globadiers, but their predecessors also came out in May 1994. The current ones are resculpts so a lot younger.

 

The Blood Angel and Dark Angel characters came out with or after Codex: Angels of Death. Azrael and Ezekiel in January 1995, Corbulo in Febuary with Dante and Tycho in March.

 

The Missionary and Preacher are from 1997, when/after the Sisters of Battle Codex was released. I don't even need to look that one up because I bought the Codex pre-release at GWs yearly tournament in August. When I got home from the tournament my family were shocked to find out that I didn't know Princess Diana had died that same weekend (and I'm English, it was a pretty big deal for us). So an easy date to remember.

 

The Jokaero was released with 5th edition Codex: Grey Knights. It's possibly the youngest model in this thread and a good decade and a half away from the oldest. Likewise, stuff like the Bezerkers and Catachans aren't even close as they're a good 6-7 years younger than the ancient Wolves and Aeldari.

 

None of the Imperial Guard tanks are old (in comparison to other stuff in this thread) as they've all been re-designed sometime in the last decade. The Chimera and Russ for instance have new turrets and all of them have different armour plates, side panels etc.

 

The only old model I can't account for is Heinrich Kemmler (now AoS Necromancer). Sadly I have gaps missing in my WD collection and I think he's probably in one of those. I do know he was after Warhammer Armies Undead though, which was May 1994.

 

The oldest plastic kit I think is the Eldar Vyper (March 1997), followed by the Falcon (November 1997). The Space Marine Bike originally pre-dates them, but the current Space Marine Bike is an updated version (torso, helmet, backpack and shoulder pads are all modern 3rd ed + rather than the 2nd ed originals).

 

That was a fun jog down memory lane. Also fascinating to read people's guesses and see how our different our perception of "old" models is depending on the era we started playing in.

 

* Or at least I don't think they are. I'm fairly certain, but not 100% because I don't have the relevant data. Although I have the a lot of WDs, all my old catalogues got thrown away when my sister inherited my mum's house and cleared out the attic. Along with 2nd ed Space Hulk, 3rd ed Blood Bowl, all the all my 2nd ed rules and codices, 4th and 5th WFB rules and army books ...... you get the idea :cry:. Old Ben definitely sensed a disturbance in the force that day.

 

** Not strictly true, I'm just too lazy to check.

 

tldr: Armour Through the Ages is the oldest. Servitors are the longest serving. Craftworld Aeldari are really screwed by ancient models.

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The stupid looking Space Marine Bikes. They've got to be one of the most ridiculously ugly and impractical looking models.

I remember back in the 90s I bought the chaplain biker just to get the chaplain and put him on a base because the only other good chaplain was a blood angels DeathCo chaplain

Edited by PeteySödes
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Well done toxic

 

It doesn't surprise me honestly. Marines have had the most models so it would make sense that one slipped through the net.

 

Eldar doesn't surprise me either they're nearly has old as marines, but marines get 10 times the support as any other race so it would make sense they've had a lot.

 

Perhaps a little surprised to see no chaos, oldest kit I can think of is probably the individual sculps for the noise marines, though they are now available as an upgrade. Fabius maybe?

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I'm pretty sure its the Servitors but the armour through the ages thunder warrior is close.

 

 

The Space Marine Bikes. They've got to be one of the most ridiculously ugly and impractical looking models.

 

I remember back in the 90s I bought the chaplain biker just to get the chaplain and put him on a base because the only other good chaplain was a blood angels DeathCo chaplain

The bikes were recut and the rider was changed to fit more modern parts so the sculpt is really old but the sprue is just old. Edited by NTaW
Edited quote.
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Well done Toxic.

 

I was thinking of the Jes Goodwin Eldar Warlocks from 1991 - I thought some of them were still available. But the only ones still on sale are 1993, the same year as the Avatar and Warp Spiders.

 

1991: http://www.solegends.com/citcat1991a/cat1991ap093eldaravatrwarlks-02.htm

 

1993:

http://www.solegends.com/citcat1993/cat1993p485-02.htm

 

 

Njal and servitors are in the 1992 Catalogue.

 

http://www.solegends.com/citcat1992/cat1992p390spacewolves-02.htm

 

That said the Catalogue dates don't seem to quite match the White Dwarf releases Toxic found.

 

And here's the Thunder armour Toxic mentioned, from the 1991 catalogue:

http://www.solegends.com/citcat1991a/cat1991ap007smarmourvariants-02.htm

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I'm pretty sure its the Servitors but the armour through the ages thunder warrior is close.

 

Armour Through the Ages 100% predates the Servitors. Like I said, I have the Servitors release WD, so I can even provide photos. I don't have an exact release date for the different armour marks, but I remember they were all in the first Citadel Catalogues that I had, which are all Rogue Trader releases. The Servitors were also RT era releases, but right at the end just before 2nd ed. A quick check on SoL brings up these pages.

 

MkI (not a thunder warrior, just a Marine in MkI - thunder warriors being the MkI users is a later HH retcon) from the 1991 catalogue.

 

http://www.solegends.com/citcat1991a/cat1991ap007smarmourvariants-01.jpg

 

Mk II, IV and V from the third catalogue. These ones are harder to pin down, because SoL claims that the catalogue "contains all the models released in 1992", which is technically true. But the way SoL phrases it (specifying that the catalogue was released in 1993 while calling out the models as 1992 and not mentioning any models being released in 1993) seems to imply that all of the models are from 1992, which is incorrect. The catalogue also includes Njal, the Iron Priest and Servitors, which were in 1993. The best evidence I have that the armour marks pre-date the Servitors is that they are not mentioned as new releases in any WD after the Servitors, nor in fact within any 6 months before them. Going back any older than that and my WD collection is really haphazard, with huge gaps in it, so it's much harder to find any proof.

 

http://www.solegends.com/citcat1992/cat1992p395marines-00.jpg

 

I can't find the MkII Marine from the Armour Through the Ages set anywhere. I just know he's really old, probably from the mid-late end of Rogue Trader as he's got a plasma pistol and chainsword from when they solidified the designs (early RT weapons are often random and don't follow cohesive designs).

 

 

Well done toxic

 

It doesn't surprise me honestly. Marines have had the most models so it would make sense that one slipped through the net.

 

Eldar doesn't surprise me either they're nearly has old as marines, but marines get 10 times the support as any other race so it would make sense they've had a lot.

 

Perhaps a little surprised to see no chaos, oldest kit I can think of is probably the individual sculps for the noise marines, though they are now available as an upgrade. Fabius maybe?

Fabius is the oldest (though not for long). He's tail end of 2nd ed with the first Chaos Codex (the one with the awesome Blanche conversion sketches in it). Off the top of my head, I'd say 1996 sometime. Or maybe late '95. He's after the Dark and Blood Angel characters, but before the Eldar Vyper and Falcon.

Edited by Toxichobbit
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I think we can subdivide into 'models with an army list entry' and 'models sold as collectors pieces' :teehee:

 

ATTA models are pretty much collectors pieces.

 

As such the oldest models GW expects you to buy to be able to use them in game are likely the Eldar stuff.

 

It's a testamant to the quality of Jes Goodwin's sculpts that almost 30 years on these guys don't look out of place. 

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The 5 metal Phoenix Lords are all from 1994. I can't think of much else that competes with that.

 

A couple of Dark Angel characters like Azrael are also from 2nd edition but they were from 1996 IIRC.

 

In fairness, Azrael has aged incredibly well.

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The only old model I can't account for is Heinrich Kemmler (now AoS Necromancer). Sadly I have gaps missing in my WD collection and I think he's probably in one of those. I do know he was after Warhammer Armies Undead though, which was May 1994.

 

 

 

Kemmler was GWs first special character but I think he is properly dead now and probably wont be coming back.

The stupid looking Space Marine Bikes. They've got to be one of the most ridiculously ugly and impractical looking models.

 

I remember back in the 90s I bought the chaplain biker just to get the chaplain and put him on a base because the only other good chaplain was a blood angels DeathCo chaplain

 

I think the sculpts for the bikes were taken from Judge Dredd, as GW made minis but losts the licence shortly before bikes came out. I dont know it that was the current bikes or an older one which got updated to the current line. Probably an update given the bolters.

I think we can subdivide into 'models with an army list entry' and 'models sold as collectors pieces' :teehee:

 

ATTA models are pretty much collectors pieces.

 

As such the oldest models GW expects you to buy to be able to use them in game are likely the Eldar stuff.

 

It's a testamant to the quality of Jes Goodwin's sculpts that almost 30 years on these guys don't look out of place. 

100% what I meant. 

Edited by PeteySödes
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I find it strange that we have had the Eldar Avatar for sale for so long that it's Forge World replacement has gone out of production. Only the Spear armed Avatar has survived on the store until today. That's a bit like the situation with the plastic Deff Kopta being replaced by the ancient Gorkamorka era one.

 

I was surprised that the Avatar model was released after the Phoenix Lords. That was interesting to learn.

 

It is nice to know that these old sculpts have been getting replacements that are mostly sympathetic to the original designs (more so Mephiston than Ghazskull to be fair).

 

With Squats, Zoats, Ambulls and Genestealer Cultists showing up recently GW is doing an excellent job of reviving these old models.

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Toxic,

 

Indulgence me oldest model for each Faction (Army with a current book) - From GW Only

 

Rules

 

1)Must have been contentiously produced  (Metal-to-resin Okay)

2)Must have no available (GW or Forgeworld, (Avatar Excluded)) alternatives, so survitors wouldn't count unless they have specific options that others don't, Steel Legion do count however as Cadians are not an alternative if you want to play the steel legion.

3)Must be able to buy them in a up-to-date store or online but excluding "Made to order" Today!

Edited by Battle Brother Abderus
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Kemmler was GWs first special character but I think he is properly dead now and probably wont be coming back.

 

I thought Ghazgkull and/or Yarrik were the first actual special characters, as in they had rules (and later models). But I could be getting mixed up with them as the first 40k special characters. Kemmler existed before them, but I think he was just a named character in the background and IIRC, he didn't get rules and certainly didn't get a model until the first Warhammer Armies Undead, well into 4th ed Fantasy Battle.

 

I was surprised that the Avatar model was released after the Phoenix Lords. That was interesting to learn.

 

I think you've misread. The Avatar, Asurman, Karandras and Fuegan were all released at the same time. Jain Zar, Maugan Ra and Baharroth came a month later.

 

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Toxic,

 

Indulgence me oldest model for each Faction (Army with a current book) - From GW Only

 

Rules

 

1)Must have been contentiously produced  (Metal-to-resin Okay)

2)Must have no available (GW or Forgeworld, (Avatar Excluded)) alternatives, so survitors wouldn't count unless they have specific options that others don't, Steel Legion do count however as Cadians are not an alternative if you want to play the steel legion.

3)Must be able to buy them in a up-to-date store or online but excluding "Made to order" Today!

I had a look into it for a few armies, but with the restrictions that's too annoying of a task. For example, with Marines the oldest model is the MkI Marine, but it wasn't continually produced. So we move onto the Land Raider, but that has a FW alternative which I'd need to find the release date for (and it's not in WD, so I'd have to spend god knows how long on Google). If that's a no go we need to move onto the Rhino, which again has a FW alternative, so repeat the Land Raider process. Then the Predator, which has FW alternatives but I think they have different datasheets - so I'd need to confirm if the datasheets are actually different (as then it'd be a different model, rather than an alternative model), then find the release date of the FW and GW Predators. The Dreadnought, Scouts and Terminators are somewhere around that time period as well, so they'd be thrown into the mix.

 

And that's just one army. You get the idea. Without the restrictions it's a fairly simple task. But with the restrictions it's orders of magnitude more complex and time consuming, and you've got lots of "This would be the oldest model, but [insert caveat that excludes it] in order to explain why the oldest model is actually one that was released after a number of other models. In my original post I completely ignored FW, which simplifies the task immensely. Sorry, but with that many models to check and those restrictions, you're on your own with that one.

 

One thing that I did remember though that I forgot last night, is that Azrael and Ezekiel were re-done. They had sculpted banners added in 4th or 5th ed. So that kind of changes the Dark Angels in my original post (depending on if you count adding sculpted banners). Their oldest model is now the Land Raider.

 

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I didn't think that the task was this hard. I thought unique independent characters were going to be the answer in most of the categories.

Eldar would have been an exception - Warp spiders, Chaos Mariens Fabius, Lysander, Azreal and Tyco probably go unchallenge. Dark Eldar, probably one of the resin models (not much of FW for them), Nid - Red terror,Tau probably the humble Devilfish, Necrons Deceiver/night bringer.

 

 

*Edit*

 

Thinking about it the Imperium faction would be really really hard. But I'm pretty sure Warp Spiders, Fabius etc are closed cases.

Edited by Battle Brother Abderus
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Kemmler was GWs first special character but I think he is properly dead now and probably wont be coming back.

 

I thought Ghazgkull and/or Yarrik were the first actual special characters, as in they had rules (and later models). But I could be getting mixed up with them as the first 40k special characters. Kemmler existed before them, but I think he was just a named character in the background and IIRC, he didn't get rules and certainly didn't get a model until the first Warhammer Armies Undead, well into 4th ed Fantasy Battle.

 

I was surprised that the Avatar model was released after the Phoenix Lords. That was interesting to learn.

 

I think you've misread. The Avatar, Asurman, Karandras and Fuegan were all released at the same time. Jain Zar, Maugan Ra and Baharroth came a month later.

 

 

Not sure how I got mixed up but thanks for sorting that out. I didn't remember that very well since it was my friend that collected Eldar at that time. I was playing Blood Angels when I first started and had to wait for what felt like ages to get Angels of Death. It was nice not to be getting kicked around by my friend's Space Wolves when I finally got some special characters of my own. :)

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I didn't think that the task was this hard. I thought unique independent characters were going to be the answer in most of the categories.

 

Eldar would have been an exception - Warp spiders, Chaos Mariens Fabius, Lysander, Azreal and Tyco probably go unchallenge. Dark Eldar, probably one of the resin models (not much of FW for them), Nid - Red terror,Tau probably the humble Devilfish, Necrons Deceiver/night bringer.

 

 

*Edit*

 

Thinking about it the Imperium faction would be really really hard. But I'm pretty sure Warp Spiders, Fabius etc are closed cases.

Yeah, I didn't think it was that hard until I actually gave it a try. I thought there might be a few tricky things but most of the stuff would be only one or two models in contention.

 

It's simple if you have the data. For the really old stuff, I have (almost) all the data. Anything I can't remember, I can look up. Anything I can remember is a simple case of checking to confirm. But go into a period where you don't have access to the data (or FW stuff is involved, where the release schedule is barely documented) and it ranges somewhere between hard and laborious, to impossible.

 

For example, using your guesses;

 

I've already confirmed Warp Spiders and Fabius in previous posts, so they're an easy one :tongue.:.

 

Lysander is kind of wrong, depending on how you define the faction. Imperial Fists still use the main Space Marine range and there's stuff in there much older than Lysander. If you include just Imperial Fist models then he's correct, but you could toss a coin and still be correct 50% of the time with that "faction" because it only has two models. This is part of what makes all the Marine ranges so complex, because they share models so you not only have to check all the models specific to that Marine range, but compare them to the main Marine range too.

 

Tycho is wrong, Corbulo is older by a month - I think you missed that in my main post :smile.:.

 

Dark Eldar I don't know the answer for and I don't have the WDs to check. But I do know the entire range (with a small number of exceptions) was released in a short time frame, 3-4 months maybe? So the answer is going to be multiple kits. Your reasoning for your guess isn't solid either - I can understand thinking resin/metal single models = older, but because so much of the current Dark Eldar range was released in such a small time period it's more likely to be one of the main kits like Kabalite Warriors, Wyches, Raider etc. They are the main building blocks of the army and get released before the more specialised metal/resin stuff.

 

T'au are a similar situation, having all of their really old stuff released in a small time frame. The Devilfish is a contender, but I actually don't know if it's the oldest. I reckon Kroot Carnivores are older, though they could have shared the same release slot. But there's also the Krootox Rider, Ethereal, Kroot Hounds and Aun'shi that all came out around the same time as well. So while they're less likely than the Devilfish and Carnivores, they'd still need checking.

 

The Red Terror is probably wrong, though another good guess. Like the Dark Eldar you need to be looking at the basic stuff first and the unique resin/metals later. The Termagant/Hormagaunt kits haven't been re-done and they were definitely in the first Tyranid wave for 3rd ed (which is where the oldest Tyranid models date to). I'm pretty sure The Red Terror was a later part of that release. The Termagant/Hormagaunt kit has been split into two seperate kits sometime during 4th ed, but the models haven't changed or been re-done at all. They're just sold in two different boxes now rather than one.

 

Same deal with the Necrons. The Nightbringer and Deciever were part of their 3rd ed release, but so were the Necron Warriors and they were almost certainly released before either of the C'tan.

 

All of these are just ballpark guesses though. While I'm 100% sure that stuff like the Kroot Carnivores, Termagants/Hormagaunts, Necron Warriors and basic Dark Eldar stuff were at the start of their releases, that doesn't mean that other stuff wasn't. One of the C'tan might have been included in the intial Necron wave as a showcase model. Dark Eldar have a lot of resin so some of them might have been in the first wave to give variety. T'au have the Devilfish and Carnivores that are definitely in contention, but the Ethereal being a basic HQ might have been out in the first wave too. The only way to be sure is to either have a fantastic memory, or check all the release dates.

 

As you can see, it's unfortunately not as simple as just looking for the old metal/resin sculpts. You need to get everything from one release window, look at which stuff GW would want to put out in the first wave of a release and then ideally confirm with WD or places like SoL. The problems happen if you don't have access to WD, if the model is too new to be on SoL (which is pretty much everything from 3rd ed onwards) or if there's FW to consider, as their release schedule is barely documented.

 

Confine it to GW and it gets much simpler. Take away the restrictions about stuff having to have been in continuous production and/or not have alternative sculpts and it's a piece of cake.

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Updated rules

 

 

1)Must have no *significant* production gaps (Metal-to-resin Okay)

 

2)Must have no *current* available (GW or Forgeworld, (Avatar Excluded)) alternatives, so survitors wouldn't count unless they have specific options that others don't, Steel Legion do count however as Cadians are not an alternative if you want to play the steel legion.

 

3)Must be able to buy them in a up-to-date store or online but excluding "Made to order" Today!

 

 

I looked into Dark Eldar myself, watches and warriors started as metal and went to plastic so are fairly new the raider however I'm unsure of. The current raider looks more "busy" than the one I found in the annuals so I'm assuming did receive and update. However it appears that more dark eldar than I thought did receive multiple metal/resin releases.

 

 

Edit

The Dark Eldar stuff is all much younger than I thought all post 2010, that's as far back as I could verify online

 

https://archive.org/details/1996CitadelMiniaturesCatalogue19861991

Edited by Battle Brother Abderus
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I looked into Dark Eldar myself, watches and warriors started as metal and went to plastic so are fairly new the raider however I'm unsure of. The current raider looks more "busy" than the one I found in the annuals so I'm assuming did receive and update. However it appears that more dark eldar than I thought did receive multiple metal/resin releases.

 

 

Edit

The Dark Eldar stuff is all much younger than I thought all post 2010, that's as far back as I could verify online

 

https://archive.org/details/1996CitadelMiniaturesCatalogue19861991

See, this is why trying to do it using online data sucks. Warriors have always been plastic since they were first released in 1998. They originally had metal special weapons, heavy weapons and squad leaders, but other than that have always been a plastic kit. Wyches were metal originally, but the current kit was always plastic. The Raider has always been plastic.

 

Dark Eldar were completely re-done sometime early last decade (like you say, after 2010). Nothing of their original 1998 range remains, so going that far back in catalogues is going to yield nothing but confusing data. That's why I ignored the old stuff. It doesn't change anything I said in my previous post though. The current range mostly came out at the same time, so the core kits were the first ones out. That's why I suggest the Warriors, Raider and Wyches as likely candidates.

 

You're focussing way too much on what the models are made out of and it's giving you're confusing results. Just because something is metal or resin doesn't make it older. Plastic production is older than resin (by decades, literally) and almost as old as metal. And while some ranges have obviously old models that are still in metal/resin, othe ranges have metal/resin models that are younger than some of the plastics.

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Bit of a left field and perhaps appropriately mysterious. There's a model that I can't find in any of the annuals but I know to be damn old.

 

Be'lakor!

 

As he's originally a fantasy model is it possible he predates the oldest models we've identified so far?

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Didn't think Be'lakor was that old.. do we know who sculpted it ?  He can be spotted in the 2006 catalogue, but there's a bit of a gap between that and the 1998 ones on SOL.  Maybe I should try and find it in my WD's and catalogues I own from back before then ^^.

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