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Toxichobbit Venerable Brother

Toxichobbit

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I don't know the exact date for him, but that sounds about right. He came out when I had my own gaming shop, which was obviously a lot later than those WDs I had as a kid in the 90s.

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Closet Skeleton Venerable Brother

Closet Skeleton

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He's from the Storm of Chaos campaign so really easy to date.

 

The Diaz prince who was still on sale 2 years ago is older.

Edited by Closet Skeleton
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Zephaniah Adriyen Venerable Brother

Zephaniah Adriyen

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The Diaz prince who was still on sale 2 years ago is older.

 

By Diaz prince, do you mean the old metal CSM prince? I loved that model. I used to have one but I have no idea what happened to it. I can't remember if it was one of Juan's sculpts or not though.

 

It seems like everybody calls it the Juan Diaz prince. This lad, yeah?

IMG_20200313_113349869.jpg

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Soldier of Dorn Venerable Brother

Soldier of Dorn

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Kemmler was GWs first special character but I think he is properly dead now and probably wont be coming back.

 

I thought Ghazgkull and/or Yarrik were the first actual special characters, as in they had rules (and later models). But I could be getting mixed up with them as the first 40k special characters. Kemmler existed before them, but I think he was just a named character in the background and IIRC, he didn't get rules and certainly didn't get a model until the first Warhammer Armies Undead, well into 4th ed Fantasy Battle.

 

Both (and 40k itself) are predated by Kemmler's first model and rules, from 1986's Terror of the Lichemaster scenario pack for 2nd edition WHFB. Pedantry, perhaps, but it's good to know these things.

 

In re: the topic at hand, I would think that the Chaos Familiars are the oldest models in the range? IIRC, they're 3rd edition WHFB/Rogue Trader sculpts.

Edited by Soldier of Dorn
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Toxichobbit Venerable Brother

Toxichobbit

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Both (and 40k itself) are predated by Kemmler's first model and rules, from 1986's Terror of the Lichemaster scenario pack for 2nd edition WHFB. Pedantry, perhaps, but it's good to know these things.

 

In re: the topic at hand, I would think that the Chaos Familiars are the oldest models in the range? IIRC, they're 3rd edition WHFB/Rogue Trader sculpts.

 

 

Oh, I completely forgot about that pack. Didn't it also have Krell? I didn't know of GW until 3rd WFB (and didn't really play until 4th, unless you count a Slann army made up of one of each unit, each 2 frogs strong) so my knowledge of 1st and 2nd is really sparse.

 

I checked for Chaos Familiars before making my list, because I remember them being around and they'd be low hanging fruit. But they don't make them anymore, at least in the UK. Even if they did, they're similar to the armour Mks in that they haven't been in constant production, if that makes any difference to people.

Edited by Toxichobbit
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Zephaniah Adriyen Venerable Brother

Zephaniah Adriyen

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Posted

 

 

Both (and 40k itself) are predated by Kemmler's first model and rules, from 1986's Terror of the Lichemaster scenario pack for 2nd edition WHFB. Pedantry, perhaps, but it's good to know these things.

 

In re: the topic at hand, I would think that the Chaos Familiars are the oldest models in the range? IIRC, they're 3rd edition WHFB/Rogue Trader sculpts.

 

 

Oh, I completely forgot about that pack. Didn't it also have Krell? I didn't know of GW until 3rd WFB (and didn't really play until 4th, unless you count a Slann army made up of one of each unit, each 2 frogs strong) so my knowledge of 1st and 2nd is really sparse.

 

I checked for Chaos Familiars before making my list, because I remember them being around and they'd be low hanging fruit. But they don't make them anymore, at least in the UK. Even if they did, they're similar to the armour Mks in that they haven't been in constant production, if that makes any difference to people.

 

Huh, I just looked, they're gone in the U.S. too. Wonder when they took them down. Maybe around the time they got rid of the Bolt Pistol/Power Sword Inquisitor?

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Toxichobbit Venerable Brother

Toxichobbit

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Not sure if the Warlock thing has been cleared up but the Spear guy and the one holding the sword behind him are deffo Rogue Trader era, I had them both when I was a kid. 99810104012_FarseerWarlocksNEW_01.jpg

 

They aren't Rogue Trader, though my previous post where I said this is slightly incorrect.

 

Neither of these Warlocks appeared in the Rogue Trader catalogue (blue, 1992). Here's the Warlock page for the 1992 catalogue. Marvel at the Avatarlet (that's a 25mm base it's on).

http://www.solegends.com/citcat1991a/cat1991ap093eldaravatrwarlks-01.jpg

 

There are no Eldar in the 1993 catalogue.

 

These first appear in the 1994 catalogue, alongside Eldrad Ulthran, the current Avatar, Warp Spiders, Phoenix Lords etc.

 

http://www.solegends.com/citcat1993/cat1993p485-01.jpg

 

Stuff of Legends claims that each of these catalogues contains the previous year's releases. It makes no mention of them also containing the current year's releases. For example:

 

 

This is section 4 of the 1990s catalogues. It was published in 1994 and contains all the models released in 1993

 and

 

Copyright 1995 this catalog covers the 1994 releases.

 

In addition, they list the catalogues on the menu page as the year they claim the models were released. So the 1992 (blue) is labelled as 1991, 1993 (green) is labelled as 1992, 1994 (black) is labelled as 1993 etc.

 

So according to SoL, the models in the 1994 (black) catalogue, which is where those Warlocks first appeared, came out in 1993. But that is incorrect. I have the release WD for Eldrad Ulthran, the Phoenix Lords and the Avatar that were all in the 1994 catalogue. It was UK WD 172, April 1994. So I'm going to go ahead and say SoL, while a great resource, is inaccurate. This is important because by 1994, we were firmly in 2nd edition, so any models that came out that year were 100% 2nd ed, not Rogue Trader.

 

This is further muddied by the Warlocks in particular. There was a Warlock released in May 1994, but the WD only mentions one and there's no picture of it. There may originally have been a picture of it in the catalogue section in the back of the WD, but me being a youngster at the time used to cut all the catalogue sections out and put them in a ring binder to make my own custom catalogue. Which I, of course, then lost :facepalm: .

 

Anyway, if I were to bet, it'd be the Warlock charging with the witch blade that came out in May 1994. That leaves the Warlock doing his wee dance with the singing spear. Honestly, I cannot find when he was released. I know he wasn't one of the original RT Warlock releases (blue, 1992) - SoL confirms that. There were no Eldar in the 2nd RT catalogue either (green, 1993). He first appears in the 4th catalogue (black, 1994) and the Eldar Codex (1994), but as that catalogue contains releases from both 1993 and 1994, it's possible that he came out in 1993 before 2nd edition released. However, if he did there's no mention of him in the 1993 catalogue, while all the other stuff that came out in 1993 right up to the release of 2nd edition (the Space Wolf stuff) is in there. There's also no mention of him in the 1993 WDs.

 

I'm missing a couple of the 1994 WDs though, so maybe he came out in one of those.

 

Basically, I can't prove it, but all evidence I can find suggests that he was a 1994 2nd edition release, sometime close to the other 2nd ed Eldar stuff. Also, I think I remember there being 2 new Warlocks released around the time of the Eldar Codex in 2nd edition, but that's purely anecdotal.

Edited by Toxichobbit
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infyrana Veteran

infyrana

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Posted (edited)

Toxichobit, great post of info.

 

I happen to have a few of those warlocks kicking around (bought as individual metal pieces/models direct from GW without packaging).  I thought I'd take a look at their bases since they've done nothing these past 20+ years but sit unbuilt in bags.  I'm sure I had Ulthwé in a blister somewhere, but couldn't find it.

 

Here's what I can tell you:

 

- The newest two you don't have shown here are holding a sword point down into the ground and a pistol out shooting with their left hand, these are cleanly and clearly printed with "C GW   1998" and "ELDAR WARLOCK" on the flipside of their tab.

 

- The next three are the "Witch Blade 3" variants, the printed text is different and not as clear, with the GW and date next to each other and the "C" with a heavy raised top part, the last number is mangled on all three and therefore awkward to read - at a guess from its makeup I'd say it was a 3, the text is as follows "C GW1993" and "ELDAR WARLOCK".

 

- Then I have 2x "Witch Blade 2" and 1x "Farseer", the text of the names appears similar but the dates are more damaged in print and not as clear and less pronounced, they appear to read as follows "FARSEER" + "ELDAR WARLOCK" with all three showing "C GW1990".

 

Hope this helps you.  I'm sure I have a few of the other models that are very old too.  I know I'm still sat on my original metal Last Chancers, metal Jain Zar Banshee and the Reaper exarchs, Juan's metal daemon prince, much of the metal marines from 2nd/3rd ed, Ghaz and Yarrick from the 3rd ed Armageddon.  It's quite funny to see these models come around again all renewed etc :smile.:

Edited by infyrana
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Toxichobbit Venerable Brother

Toxichobbit

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Posted

Well, now I feel stupid. Why did I never think of the tabs!

 

I have the Walock with the Singing Spear. His tab is 1993. Given lead times, definitely a 1994 release. Alongside the confirmation above that Warlock Witch Blade 3 is also 1993, that's them both confirmed as 2nd ed, not RT.

 

The Warlock you mention with the witch blade held point down and aiming his pistol is the Mike McVey sculpt for the 3rd ed Eldar Codex release, so 1998 would be right given lead times (the Codex came out in 1999).

 

The final Warlock in the box above (witch blade held in a guard stance) was sculpted for that box set, alongside the Farseer. I'm sure it was a 4th ed release, with stuff like the modern War Walkers and the Harlequin re-design. So around 2006/2007.

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infyrana Veteran

infyrana

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Aye, the Codex release for 3rd edition would have been around the time I purchased the models.  Though I have a few models from earlier (don't recall what was the earliest), the crossing over into 3rd edition was where it took off for me.  You can definitely tell the newer stuff, first question being - does it have a tactical rock ? lol  It is testament to those models that they stood sculpted the same for so long.

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Slave to Darkness Venerable Brother

Slave to Darkness

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Not sure if the Warlock thing has been cleared up but the Spear guy and the one holding the sword behind him are deffo Rogue Trader era, I had them both when I was a kid. 99810104012_FarseerWarlocksNEW_01.jpg

 

They aren't Rogue Trader, though my previous post where I said this is slightly incorrect.

 

Neither of these Warlocks appeared in the Rogue Trader catalogue (blue, 1992). Here's the Warlock page for the 1992 catalogue. Marvel at the Avatarlet (that's a 25mm base it's on).

http://www.solegends.com/citcat1991a/cat1991ap093eldaravatrwarlks-01.jpg

 

There are no Eldar in the 1993 catalogue.

 

These first appear in the 1994 catalogue, alongside Eldrad Ulthran, the current Avatar, Warp Spiders, Phoenix Lords etc.

 

http://www.solegends.com/citcat1993/cat1993p485-01.jpg

 

Stuff of Legends claims that each of these catalogues contains the previous year's releases. It makes no mention of them also containing the current year's releases. For example:

 

 

This is section 4 of the 1990s catalogues. It was published in 1994 and contains all the models released in 1993

 and

 

Copyright 1995 this catalog covers the 1994 releases.

 

In addition, they list the catalogues on the menu page as the year they claim the models were released. So the 1992 (blue) is labelled as 1991, 1993 (green) is labelled as 1992, 1994 (black) is labelled as 1993 etc.

 

So according to SoL, the models in the 1994 (black) catalogue, which is where those Warlocks first appeared, came out in 1993. But that is incorrect. I have the release WD for Eldrad Ulthran, the Phoenix Lords and the Avatar that were all in the 1994 catalogue. It was UK WD 172, April 1994. So I'm going to go ahead and say SoL, while a great resource, is inaccurate. This is important because by 1994, we were firmly in 2nd edition, so any models that came out that year were 100% 2nd ed, not Rogue Trader.

 

This is further muddied by the Warlocks in particular. There was a Warlock released in May 1994, but the WD only mentions one and there's no picture of it. There may originally have been a picture of it in the catalogue section in the back of the WD, but me being a youngster at the time used to cut all the catalogue sections out and put them in a ring binder to make my own custom catalogue. Which I, of course, then lost :facepalm: .

 

Anyway, if I were to bet, it'd be the Warlock charging with the witch blade that came out in May 1994. That leaves the Warlock doing his wee dance with the singing spear. Honestly, I cannot find when he was released. I know he wasn't one of the original RT Warlock releases (blue, 1992) - SoL confirms that. There were no Eldar in the 2nd RT catalogue either (green, 1993). He first appears in the 4th catalogue (black, 1994) and the Eldar Codex (1994), but as that catalogue contains releases from both 1993 and 1994, it's possible that he came out in 1993 before 2nd edition released. However, if he did there's no mention of him in the 1993 catalogue, while all the other stuff that came out in 1993 right up to the release of 2nd edition (the Space Wolf stuff) is in there. There's also no mention of him in the 1993 WDs.

 

I'm missing a couple of the 1994 WDs though, so maybe he came out in one of those.

 

Basically, I can't prove it, but all evidence I can find suggests that he was a 1994 2nd edition release, sometime close to the other 2nd ed Eldar stuff. Also, I think I remember there being 2 new Warlocks released around the time of the Eldar Codex in 2nd edition, but that's purely anecdotal.

 

Yep your right, my bad... it was so long ago my memorys all wibbilly wobbilly. First and Second ed kinda blur together for me. The spear guy deffo was pre Nid dex release in 2nd, I converted it into my Stealer Magus. Looked great back in the day, I cringe thinking about it now 

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Lord_Caerolion Venerable Brother

Lord_Caerolion

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Posted

Belakor originaly was for Mordheim

 

His title was mentioned in Mordheim, the Shadowmaster, but he never featured in rules or got mentioned by actual name, same thing with the Albion campaign. His model was released with the Storm of Chaos campaign in 2004.

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