How/when do SMs upgrade arms and armor?

[Lord_Caerolion]

It could come down to the fact that, for the Marines, the armour they wear, outside of Terminators, is their armour. Give them a relic helmet, and they’ll always be making use of it. A missile launcher isn’t theirs, though, they’re issued from the armoury when the squad deploys as a Tactical/Devastator Squad and is outfitted with a missile launcher as part of the mission guidelines.

As such, a Marine getting a relic missile launcher as a deed recognition isn’t really “worth” as much. Maybe for a Sternguard Veteran, but not for the bulk of the Chapter.

 

Of course, it could just be that the squad itself earns the right to use the relic missile launcher Beast-hammer, and use it when appropriate.

[Doghouse]

I've always found the handing down of parts of armour one of my favourite aspects of the Astartes and to me have always reflected each era showing the decline of truth in the face of religion and superstition.

 

Such things were frowned apon in the Great Crusade because of Imperial Truth. I have always personally seen the armour of that time seen as something that while personal to the individual Astartes is a tool or a weapon in the same way a modern soldier may look at a gun or a tank. There may be some personal attachment on some levels but there is no real superstition involved because of the mass manufactured nature of the suits. It makes them more effective as a soldier.

 

Later as time passes and the truth gives way to relgion and superstition, as the millenia go by, I can see specific parts used by heroes of old as being highly treasured. I am always reminded of an English TV series called Only Fools and Horses where Trigger (who is a street sweeper) gets an award from the local council for using the same broom for 20 years. When talking about how he maintained it so long he says "this old broom has had 17 new heads and 14 new handles..." and I can see the same applying to ancient armour of the Astartes. Rivet gets replaced here, eye lense gets replaced there, hoses replaced due to wear and tear, damaged plate replaced and before you know it the entire helmet is a hotch potch of parts with very little of the original remaining. But it's more about the superstition, mythology and honour that has grown through generations of war that surrounds the item rather than the age or authenticity of the item itself.

 

With the rise of the Primaris I can see originally them having a very Great Crusade era mentality to wargear but as their numbers have been replaced by contemporary era recruits and they have been indoctrinated by their new chapters over the last couple of centuries that they adapt a similar superstitious mentality in regards to wargear.

I find it a bit ironic that these as they themselves were brought in to strengthen and maybe even replace the Astartes of the last ten millenia that the veterans of the Indominus Crusade will be phased out through casualties in favour of new recruits who will most likely be a hybrid of the two when it comes to beliefs regarding machine spirits and weapons.

[jaxom]

Very loosely there's similar thinking among historians about the difference between the early "barbarian" (Celt, Gaelic, Teutonic, etc) attitude towards swords and the "civilized" (Roman) attitude towards swords. For the former, a sword was difficult to make compared to an ax or spear, less useful outside of combat, and more resource intensive. Swords became heirlooms and there was a degree of romanticism attached to their stories. For the latter, a sword was one part of a larger, well supported military, and seen as a replaceable tool. And when we think of the great myths of the Western world, the vast majority of Cool Swords come from those "barbarian" sources.

 

The Deathwatch RPG supplement Rites of Battle had a really cool section on the different marks and their mechanical effects in-game. Older marks gave bonuses to Fellowship with marines (good for commanders). The Crusade and Iron armours were so rare as full suits that they were represented as a historic component of a newer mark. A full set of MkIV armour got three rolls on the History tables while MkV and MkVI got two rolls and MkVII and MkVIII got one roll. 

[Panzer]

Very loosely there's similar thinking among historians about the difference between the early "barbarian" (Celt, Gaelic, Teutonic, etc) attitude towards swords and the "civilized" (Roman) attitude towards swords. For the former, a sword was difficult to make compared to an ax or spear, less useful outside of combat, and more resource intensive. Swords became heirlooms and there was a degree of romanticism attached to their stories. For the latter, a sword was one part of a larger, well supported military, and seen as a replaceable tool. And when we think of the great myths of the Western world, the vast majority of Cool Swords come from those "barbarian" sources.

 

I can't help but notice the parallels between warriors and soldiers. These "barbaric" examples you list had a more "warrior" attitude while the romans where more of a proper "soldier" mindset/lifestyle. Similarly Horus Heresy Marines were "soldiers" while 40k Marines (d)evolved into a more "warrior" mindset (still more soldier than say Custodes or such as Black Library repeatedly tells us of course).

[jaxom]

Word. One of the things which was interesting about the Deathwatch RPG was it stressed that one reason why Space Marines were so effective as Chapters was that at the squad level they acted with a purpose and unison which could only arise from super-senses and dogmatic indoctrination and training coordinating their actions. Taking a Space Marine and placing him with other veterans from other Chapters decreased combat effectiveness. One of the perks an Ultramarine could get was they had such a mastery of the codex astartes they developed an intuitive sense for how other Chapters might interpret it. This let them use another Chapter's special squad ability when the Chapter member activated it.

[Volt]

Also we know that some armor still has different functions depending on the battlefield. In ADB's night lord books, the champion of the Blood Angels boarding squad is rocking MK 3, and IIRC others were as well due to it being specialized for CQC fighting. More screwy though is the Ultramarines Second Company image by GW, which iirc I've broken down before, which shows that very few marines actually wear standard Mark VII armor with it instead being an eclectic assortment of armor pieces.

[jaxom]

The one from Codex: Space Marines?

[No Foes Remain]

It was the 5th ed Codex right? Or the 6th?

 

 

Edit: Aha, found it and a large sized one at that!

Edited March 23, 2020 by No Foes Remain

[infyrana]

I always play on the side of caution with artwork, artistic license is a wonderful thing.