Space Wolves and jump packs

[Maritn]

Hi folks,

 

maybe I remember this incorrectly (I've been completely out of the hobby for many years), but wasn't there something along the lines of "Space Wolves are afraid of / don't trust jump packs, so they don't use them" during 3rd/4th edition?

[Karhedron]

You are correct, in fact I think this piece of fluff went all the way back to the 2nd edition codex. Space Wolves like to fight "with their feet on the ground, as Russ intended). They didn't get jump packs and Terminators couldn't teleport). This has steadily been eroded over the years with the introduction of teleportation and skyclaws.

 

Now it is little more than a piece of fluff that some Long Fang players like to keep in mind.

[ranulf the revenant]

Pretty sure you're right. I think it was considered foolish/dishonourable to use jump packs. Maybe customs changed and/or they overcame their fear

[Ryltar Thamior]

iirc, the third edition codex had jump packs limited to blood claws, on grounds that these would be the only foolish/bold enough Wolves to undertake such foolhardy activity. I don't quite remember whether you could attach a Wolf Guard to the pack, but there is a rather amusing thought in there, perhaps, about said Wolf  Guard having done *something* sufficiently odious in the eyes of his Wolf Lord to warrant the assignment and consequent equipment that comes with it. 

Meanwhile, I was pleasantly surprised with how this got handled in the codex update around 5th - SkyClaws became ... pretty much what they'd been before, except more so - the more rambunctious and unruly of the Blood Claws, safely sectioned off to go and do what young bands of extra-glory extra-hounds do (and/or die trying); including the perhaps rather amusing bit around "borrowing" thunderhawks after sneaking past the guards to go off and go irrationally-daring trophy-hunting in pursuit of their Lord's favour.

I'm unsure if it's  gone broader than that in terms of other (post-)VIth Astartes  making use of jump packs (e.g. characters and what not); although I suspect that'd be a bit too far - for my personal tastes, at any rate. I'm not wild about some of the comparable elements with the Primaris range, either, but I suppose that's often more of a case of the Astartes in question having picked those up on Mars and just kept going with it when they were reunited with their 'parent' chapter. 

The teleportation on the other hand - it's not just Fenrisian superstition. I still recall the old-school writeup of the Ultramarine terminators carrying out a teleport assault on Ichar IV and one of them casually winding up half *in the wall* of the underground complex they were deploying into. Even leaving aside the "we're careening through the warp *on foot*" thought ... it's a sensible and understandable perspective to be less than keen on it.

 

[Leif Bearclaw]

Pretty sure you're right. I think it was considered foolish/dishonourable to use jump packs. Maybe customs changed and/or they overcame their fear . For real though, I think GW realised it was a bit silly... I mean they're using flyers and space ships like every other chapter, so why should they be afraid of using jump packs?

Slight clarification, it wasn't 'fear' (or anything unbecoming of an Astartes like that), it was disdain. From the 3rd ed BC entry:

 

 

Space Wolves have a perverse disdain for jump packs, preferring to fight with both feet planted firmly on the ground "as Russ intended". Sometimes however, a pack of Blood Claws (who are too short in the tooth to know any better) will be equipped with jump packs to carry out a special mission.

 

Now, at the risk of playing the definition game, all that essentially means is the SWs feel that jump packs are unworthy of their consideration/respect (disdain) and that feeling is unusual and outside normal Astartes practice (perverse). One could just as easily say the same about the DAs and their traditional refusal to field Deathwing as anything other than Terminator squads.

 

That said, the 'they're fine with flyers, what's the problem with jump packs?' line doesn't work for me. It's akin to saying 'it's silly to be worried about skydiving when you're OK with commercial air travel'. Riding in a vehicle is very different from strapping and engine to your back and hoping (or jumping out of a perfectly serviceable plane). They're 2 very different concepts without much overlap.

 

 

iirc, the third edition codex had jump packs limited to blood claws, on grounds that these would be the only foolish/bold enough Wolves to undertake such foolhardy activity. I don't quite remember whether you could attach a Wolf Guard to the pack, but there is a rather amusing thought in there, perhaps, about said Wolf  Guard having done *something* sufficiently odious in the eyes of his Wolf Lord to warrant the assignment and consequent equipment that comes with it. 

 

 

They could indeed. Although alternatively the attached WG could be the 'trusted dude to keep the foolhardy youngsters in line on the special mission' rather than a punishment detail for spilling his drink on the WL the night before .

Edited March 16, 2020 by Leif Bearclaw

[Maritn]

Thanks for the details! :)

I'm thinking about starting a Space Wolves force, and I was wondering wether I should include units like Inceptors. Maybe I better leave them to my other Space Marines.

[Karhedron]

I'm thinking about starting a Space Wolves force, and I was wondering wether I should include units like Inceptors. Maybe I better leave them to my other Space Marines.

Considering that the recent SW codex specifically mentions Inceptors, there is no problem from a fluff POV.

 

Inceptors have quickly proven themselves to be excellent pack hunters. Like all Space Wolves, they possess highly acute senses – even for Space Marines – that allow them to track their prey across smoke-filled battlefields, sight their targets through clouds of choking toxins and pick up the scent of fresh blood from many miles away. Using these innate tracking skills, along with their heavy jump pack-enhanced speed, Inceptors can head off enemy flanking manoeuvres or run down those foes who think themselves safe on the rear lines. Packs of Inceptors are experts at finding the most direct route to their enemy, bounding across ravines and rough terrain, landing on rocky outcrops and launching from the peaks of crumbling towers.

Having said that, if you want dakka for wolves, Aggressors might be better and their power fists work very nicely with our +1 to-Hit trait.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Fenrisian tribes call them the sky warriors. But afraid to take flight. Hmmm...

 

It was probably just a fluff hook to make a reason for just blood claws to take jump packs versus grey hunters. Makes for a good read. It adds character and differentiates us from blood angels.

 

I wonder if anyone has more info from the 2nd edition codex? Do they address it at all or was it just a 3rd edition thing?

[TiguriusX]

If you consider the novels canonical there was a wolf lord and his WG retinue all wearing jump packs and fighting in the warzone fenris series when Magnus attacks

[Karhedron]

I wonder if anyone has more info from the 2nd edition codex? Do they address it at all or was it just a 3rd edition thing?

It actually started in 2nd edition IIRC. I think it was a fluff explanation for the fact that the original metal Blood Claws models were not sold with jump packs.

[Boytoy]

Lol, this is the reason none of my wolves have jump packs. I'm just an old grognard at heart

[Maritn]

Considering that the recent SW codex specifically mentions Inceptors, there is no problem from a fluff POV.

 

Having said that, if you want dakka for wolves, Aggressors might be better and their power fists work very nicely with our +1 to-Hit trait.

Thanks, that's a good advice. I'll build some test lists and see, which unit I might rather use.

[ranulf the revenant]

 

 

Pretty sure you're right. I think it was considered foolish/dishonourable to use jump packs. Maybe customs changed and/or they overcame their fear . For real though, I think GW realised it was a bit silly... I mean they're using flyers and space ships like every other chapter, so why should they be afraid of using jump packs?

Slight clarification, it wasn't 'fear' (or anything unbecoming of an Astartes like that), it was disdain.

 

(...)

 

That said, the 'they're fine with flyers, what's the problem with jump packs?' line doesn't work for me. It's akin to saying 'it's silly to be worried about skydiving when you're OK with commercial air travel'. Riding in a vehicle is very different from strapping and engine to your back and hoping (or jumping out of a perfectly serviceable plane). They're 2 very different concepts without much overlap.

OK, but they're also using drop pods. Which has a fair bit of overlap with using jump packs (minus the rocket part, but your still falling from the sky)

[PeteySödes]

Also remember this is the time pre-drop pod model when it was eventually just the fancy FW version that didn't even really have rules. Lots has changed since then. As for the fear part YMMV but I always interpreted it as more superstition as others have said. Now of course we have the HH series that tells a totally different tale of how Astartes make war than i think was what was even considered in 2nd ed.

 

Mental and fluff gymnastics aside, you should feel free to do what you want. Thats what makes SW so fun. You can make your own great wolf that can totally be your grognard surrogate and say no pods and packs "AS RUSS INTENDED....grumble grumble" or thumb your nose at the old folks and destroy everyone like a true Sky Warrior.

Edited March 17, 2020 by PeteySödes

[Mr Smith]

The game background doesn't mean much anymore, unfortunately.

[PeteySödes]

The game background doesn't mean much anymore, unfortunately.

 

That's entirely up to you as an individual. But that's not what we're discussing atm.

Edited March 17, 2020 by PeteySödes

[Lord Ragnarok]

This fluff, annoyed me since I joined the hobby in 2004. In my opinion it was a fluff way to take us down due to having other benefits (read...lazy story telling)

[Valerian]

 

I wonder if anyone has more info from the 2nd edition codex? Do they address it at all or was it just a 3rd edition thing?

It actually started in 2nd edition IIRC. I think it was a fluff explanation for the fact that the original metal Blood Claws models were not sold with jump packs.

 

 

No, my friend, it all started in 3e.  Space Wolves had no issues with jump packs in 2e or Rogue Trader.  Jervis talked a little about it in his White Dwarf article that introduced the new 3e minidex, just before its release.  He had to give them some new limitations, since he had given Space Wolves quite a few advantages over other Space Marines, and putting limits on Jump Infantry (as well as teleporting Terminators) was part of that balancing act.

 

Val

[Wispy]

creating identity with restrictions was how GW did things back in the day.  i enjoy their modern, more permissive approach instead, giving factions each their own advantages in areas of combat rather than taking away.

 

they're space marines, they're very brave and have a very desperate mission, they would use whatever tools at their disposal to fight the enemy. fear of teleporting, disdain of jump packs... this is something they would put aside to get the job down.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Yup, that was it. Thanks you old Rune Priest. 

 

No, my friend, it all started in 3e.  Space Wolves had no issues with jump packs in 2e or Rogue Trader.  Jervis talked a little about it in his White Dwarf article that introduced the new 3e minidex, just before its release.  He had to give them some new limitations, since he had given Space Wolves quite a few advantages over other Space Marines, and putting limits on Jump Infantry (as well as teleporting Terminators) was part of that balancing act.

 

Val

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Lord Ragnarok

[Wispy]

If you consider the novels canonical there was a wolf lord and his WG retinue all wearing jump packs and fighting in the warzone fenris series when Magnus attacks

 

This was Sven Bloodhowl and he is very canonical. Sven is MIA since the fall of Cadia, presumed dead, but before that happened him and his Firehowlers were the most jump-pack eccentric Great Company. His Wolf Guard were all junmp pack equipped, the same way Harald Deathwolf's company is Thunderwolf happy or Logan's Wolf Guard is terminator heavy.

 

 

This is 6th edition fluff, fyi.

[Wispy]

Oh, that reminders me! The Firehowlers even had some short lived detachment towards the end of 7th edition, just before the Gathering Storm shenanigan. The detachment required Wolfguard use jetpacks or bikes. GW even had a kitbashed official mini for Sven. 

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Wispy

[PeteySödes]

Ah yes, the time when we got free upgrades for the Ironwolves, everyone bought out all the rhino/preds then they killed him off....   

[Mr Smith]

Oh, that reminders me! The Firehowlers even had some short lived detachment towards the end of 7th edition, just before the Gathering Storm shenanigan. The detachment required Wolfguard use jetpacks or bikes. GW even had a kitbashed official mini for Sven. 

 

 

 

Was it a studio kitbash of the character, or did they find a studio member's own Wold Lord and just make them canon?

[Bryan Blaire]

Was it a studio kitbash of the character, or did they find a studio member's own Wolf Lord and just make them canon?

In the end, it was depicted in an official product from GW, so does it matter? It was what GW picked to depict Sven Bloodhowl.