Lore Question - Fleet-based Orders?

[Ace Debonair]

Greetings, fellow servants of The Emperor!

I'm working on developing an Order of Adepta Sororitas for the Liber's Iron Gauntlet challenge, and I've hit a stumbling block as I develop the Order's history.

Specifically, I'd envisioned my Order as a sort of space-faring patrol force designed to orbit a particularly troublesome part of space and rip heresy out root and branch wherever they found it.

As one of our esteemed Moderati pointed out, however, there doesn't seem to be a lot of information available regarding fleet-bound Sisters of Battle.

Is there anything to support fleet-based Orders tucked away in the lore?
Or is that strictly a non-option?

 

I'd rather not stretch canon too far if I can help it, so any knowledge you're willing to share will be much appreciated.

[Ice warrior]

As per degree passive Ecclesiarchy, does not have men under arms. In the older editions, 5th for example, the rulebook stated that only thousands of sisters of battle existed throughout the galaxy, thus assumption can be made that no fleets could be manned. Furthermore, the separation of imperial navy and imperial guard existed at this point, thus it can be assumed that similar neutering of the combat capabilities was given to Ecclesiarchy (proof - you may ask:? Would be weird that you demand all soldiers to disband but not the warships!?)

 

However, most modern 8th edition lore states that there are hundreds of thousands of sisters if not many millions. Furthermore, in the book Mark of Faith, the part of the story is taken place in a Ecclesiarchy ship. (I won't spoil anything more, especially since I haven't finished it)

So to answer to your question. Fleet based or even ship based SoB did not exists until the newest edition, and thus they have not seen any use in previous novelisations or books. Sisters have been in ships and even been able to request things from the captain (headings), but in each novel it was described as a blackship, "loaned" imperial navy ship or as an  pilgrim transport (Bought / loaned ??)

 

 

Below a spoiler about Our Martyred Lady audio drama

Not confirmed, but I got the impression that decree passive was rescinded by the Ecclesiarchy on the later stages of the indomitus crusade

 

TL;DR

Go for it!

 

- Cheers Ice

[Brother-Captain Gilead]

I don't think it is too much of a stretch. The lore contains snippets of how the missionaries of the Eccelesiarchy are attached to Rogue Traders but also that the Missionarius Galaxia sends out missionary fleets filled with preachers, confessors and missionaries who must be protected by the Adepta Sororitas. There are also mentions of how some of the non-combatant orders train sisters to do missionary work by acting as nurses or as interpreters who can help decipher the languages of the native human populations that might have little to nothing in common with the main imperial dialects. Based on this, it is clear that there are either parts of orders or complete orders who are fleet based as they guard the missionary ships. What you describe could be an army from one such order.

 

The other direction to take would be to consider your order to be one who is traditionally guarding the pilgrimage ships. Again, there are snippets of lore that Adepta Sororitas provide security for ships full of people on pilgrimage along the main pilgrimage routes (which I don't think have ever been defined that clearly in the lore, but would probably consist of ferrying people to Terra, Gathalamor and other planets considered holy). Since the protection for these ships comes from the sisters, there must either be orders completely devoted to it or parts of order responsible for providing this protection alongside their other duties.

[Ace Debonair]

As per degree passive Ecclesiarchy, does not have men under arms. In the older editions, 5th for example, the rulebook stated that only thousands of sisters of battle existed throughout the galaxy, thus assumption can be made that no fleets could be manned. Furthermore, the separation of imperial navy and imperial guard existed at this point, thus it can be assumed that similar neutering of the combat capabilities was given to Ecclesiarchy (proof - you may ask:? Would be weird that you demand all soldiers to disband but not the warships!?)

 

However, most modern 8th edition lore states that there are hundreds of thousands of sisters if not many millions. Furthermore, in the book Mark of Faith, the part of the story is taken place in a Ecclesiarchy ship. (I won't spoil anything more, especially since I haven't finished it)

So to answer to your question. Fleet based or even ship based SoB did not exists until the newest edition, and thus they have not seen any use in previous novelisations or books. Sisters have been in ships and even been able to request things from the captain (headings), but in each novel it was described as a blackship, "loaned" imperial navy ship or as an  pilgrim transport (Bought / loaned ??)

 

 

Below a spoiler about Our Martyred Lady audio drama

[*Spoiler removed just in case I mess up the tags and leave it uncovered* - Ace]

 

TL;DR

Go for it!

 

- Cheers Ice

 

Ecclesiarchy ships seem like a sensible solution for my problem, come to think of it.

 

It makes sense that the Order wouldn't have any ships of their own in light of what you're saying, but I could see them making a "temporary" base of operations on a Church-vessel of some kind, or on "loaned" ships from other walks of life.

 

Most illuminating - many thanks!

 

I don't think it is too much of a stretch. The lore contains snippets of how the missionaries of the Eccelesiarchy are attached to Rogue Traders but also that the Missionarius Galaxia sends out missionary fleets filled with preachers, confessors and missionaries who must be protected by the Adepta Sororitas. There are also mentions of how some of the non-combatant orders train sisters to do missionary work by acting as nurses or as interpreters who can help decipher the languages of the native human populations that might have little to nothing in common with the main imperial dialects. Based on this, it is clear that there are either parts of orders or complete orders who are fleet based as they guard the missionary ships. What you describe could be an army from one such order.

 

The other direction to take would be to consider your order to be one who is traditionally guarding the pilgrimage ships. Again, there are snippets of lore that Adepta Sororitas provide security for ships full of people on pilgrimage along the main pilgrimage routes (which I don't think have ever been defined that clearly in the lore, but would probably consist of ferrying people to Terra, Gathalamor and other planets considered holy). Since the protection for these ships comes from the sisters, there must either be orders completely devoted to it or parts of order responsible for providing this protection alongside their other duties.

Both suggestions make a lot of sense, but the pilgrimage one really has me thinking.

 

I really, really like the idea that some high-ranking clergy with an eye for long-term planning just happens to declare the bit of space I want my Order in to be part of a pilgrimage route, just so they can justify having a freshly-minted Order on permanent crusade in the area to combat the stranglehold of corruption.

 

I might go so far as to have the Order help construct a bunch of holy sites as they travel to further justify their presence.

 

It's got the right amount of dirty politics and noble goals to really appeal to me.

What can I say, I like my Ecclesiarchy to be slightly shady.

 

I think I can see a way forward - thank you for the insights!

[Aqui]

Welcome, Ace! Long time no see ^_^

 

I can't see why a fleet based Order can't exist or work. The Sisterhood based in planets have to be able to mobilise quickly (by Imperium standards anyway :lol: ), so pacts with Naval ships or even Rogue Traders are possible. Of course pacts with the Mechanicus is possible in regard to maintaining their vehicles and for resupply. I think the only difficult bit would be explaining why they're fleet based over having a planetary headquarters. Also, in a few books I've read, many who spend a lot of time in space has its mark put upon them, usually in the form of pale complexion, eyes used to artificial light and not natural light, although that is more indicative of void born (people who were born on space ships) than those who were born on a planet.

 

It's an interesting idea. I'll be interested to see where you go with it :)

[Brother-Captain Gilead]

 

I really, really like the idea that some high-ranking clergy with an eye for long-term planning just happens to declare the bit of space I want my Order in to be part of a pilgrimage route, just so they can justify having a freshly-minted Order on permanent crusade in the area to combat the stranglehold of corruption.

 

I might go so far as to have the Order help construct a bunch of holy sites as they travel to further justify their presence.

 

It's got the right amount of dirty politics and noble goals to really appeal to me.

What can I say, I like my Ecclesiarchy to be slightly shady.

 

I think I can see a way forward - thank you for the insights!

 

 

Man, that is a really clever idea and would totally fit as part of the shady stuff the Ecclesiarchy is up to all the time. An ambitious cardinal sees an opportunity to increase his personal power (by accident of course) and advance the cause of the Ecclesiarchy by building holy sites across selected planets connected by semi-stable warp routes and then decree it as a branch of an established and traditional pilgrimage route. It even has an ironic historic echo because that was actually a thing that happened during the Middle ages where the pilgrimage routes across Europe and Middle-East got additional branches from local church officials who wished to increase their standing by acquiring holy relics (or "discovering" the burial places of saints) and persuading pilgrims to detour by their church / monastery / cathedral on their way to Rome or Jerusalem or other pilgrimage destinations.

[Ice warrior]

I think with the newest lore addition to the universe, SoB is much more fluid when it comes to the fleet operations. I, my self love the political intrique and logistics of systems and backstops and guarantees that exists even in our real life.

 

For example, I have been thinking since 2003 that Ecclesiarchy does not possess ships at all. So all used ships and loaned with fat stacks of money for use. And if you happen to need some troops somewhere. Just re-direct some pilgrim ships to the combat zone and arm em with what you happen to have. "Woops! we did not intent to bring these 2 million pilgrims to the combat zone, but the Emperor has given divine direction to their pilgrimage and we happen to have extra weapons to arm 'em. Yay!"

 

My newest homebrew order is basically based upon a small space station or a large defence monitor. A station that can be tugged across warp to different systems. Technically not a ship, but is a station that can be used to defend planets (shrine worlds) in need. As you can see I like to wiggle my way out of the loopholes :D

 

For you however, fleet based ship seems legit. They just need a really good reason, why they would be allowed to do it extended amount of time. Or maybe they are intentionally going against the decree passive to piss off Rowboat Girlyman.

[Trokair]

Not quite the same, but in the Shira Calpurnia novels I seem to remember a bit of interplay between the protagonist as part of the Arbites and both Navy and Ecclesiastical stuff on orbital stations.

 

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Shira_Calpurnia_(Novel_Series)

[ThePenitentOne]

That's a great story Ace- keep us posted.

 

The first chapter of of the serialized SoB novel in White Dwarf, they transplant a church from a planet to a ship. I think it's Faith and Fire?

 

Anyway, some of the ships in your fleet could be carrying functional churches, which will be transplanted onto planets claimed in wars of faith.  

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The first chapter of of the serialized SoB novel in White Dwarf, they transplant a church from a planet to a ship. I think it's Faith and Fire?

 

Anyway, some of the ships in your fleet could be carrying functional churches, which will be transplanted onto planets claimed in wars of faith.

Interesting idea. Have the Ecclesiarchy operate modified forge ships whose purpose is to prefabricate churches for assembly on planets the Orders Militant conquer? The onboard facilities will obviously be useful for prefabricating walls, bunkers, pillboxes, and other fortifications.

[Ace Debonair]

That's a great story Ace- keep us posted.

Apologies for the delay in my reply!

This thread's been extremely useful in helping me sort out the plausibility of my planned Order.

It's all starting to come together now, so the future is looking bright for my Battle Sisters! 

 

If anyone's interested in seeing how this Order turns out, this is the thread where I'm developing it: The Order of the Iron Tower.

[CaptainMarsh]

You could easily say they are fleet based in order to defend any one of the innumerable pilgrim's trails in the galaxy.

[Closet Skeleton]

Sisters orders aren't space marine chapters, so there wouldn't be direct equivilants to a Fleet based Space Marine chapter.

 

Most Imperial ships probably have some kind of chapel on them, so an order dedicated to defending the chapel on a particularly big ship doesn't sound implausible.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Most Imperial ships probably have some kind of chapel on them, so an order dedicated to defending the chapel on a particularly big ship doesn't sound implausible.

More likely, an Order dedicated to maintaining chapels on a specific sector fleet's ships, ministering to servicemen aboard said ships, and serving as boarding and counter-boarding forces. I doubt any individual ship is big enough for a reasonably-sized Order; a fleet's worth of ships, though...

[Ice warrior]

Smoll update, since I finally got into reading the Codex. pages 12-13 it states "A Militant Order typically maintains its own fleets of orbital assault vessels and macro landers, but larger battleships and interstellar transports are seconded from the imperial navy. These ships may be assigned to an order for decades or even centuries, but are still officially not part of the ecclesiarchar military." page 12. 

 

Then Order assets: "Frateris Templar Battle ships, Cruiser squadrons, Secondary escort squadrons, confessor militant, tempestus scion companies & frateris militia auxiliary forces." page 13

[sitnam]

Smoll update, since I finally got into reading the Codex. pages 12-13 it states "A Militant Order typically maintains its own fleets of orbital assault vessels and macro landers, but larger battleships and interstellar transports are seconded from the imperial navy. These ships may be assigned to an order for decades or even centuries, but are still officially not part of the ecclesiarchar military." page 12.

 

Then Order assets: "Frateris Templar Battle ships, Cruiser squadrons, Secondary escort squadrons, confessor militant, tempestus scion companies & frateris militia auxiliary forces." page 13

I was going to respond with this, glad I read the whole thread first...

 

Really wonder what a Frateris Templar Battleship is

 

As far as the question of the thread, I think it is reasonable to assume there would be some fleet based Ordo Minoris. Even of they didn't operate a fleet, what if they chartered aboard Navy vessels assigned to guard a pilgrim route. The codex gives ample evidence that the Ecclesiarchy maintains its own ships too.

 

Another idea is the Inquisition; my own Order of His Amethyst Heart operate out of a small fleet of Black Ships, as they are the chosen strike force of a Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor.

Edited April 8, 2020 by sitnam

[Ray_K]

Interesting thread.

 

I've always wanted to include Sisters in my Templar force and only recently started painting a few up. Would it be too far fetched to say there is an order of sisters loosely "attached" to my rampaging Templar crusade? Maybe a fleet of preachers and support personnel that follow the crusade around for various reasons. The sisters provide security and occasionally help the Templars lay the smackdown on heretics, witches, xenos, etc.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Ray_K

[painting.for.my.sanity]

Interesting thread.

 

I've always wanted to include Sisters in my Templar force and only recently started painting a few up. Would it be too far fetched to say there is an order of sisters loosely "attached" to my rampaging Templar crusade? Maybe a fleet of preachers and support personnel that follow the crusade around for various reasons. The sisters provide security and occasionally help the Templars lay the smackdown on heretics, witches, xenos, etc.

 

Having a preceptory tagging along with a crusade seems completely fair to me - it's what I'm doing with my Iron Veil alongside my Templars.

[Sir_Gaea]

I'll chip in late and tell you to go with it. The Imperium of Man is a massive place where all types of things exist. I'm adding Space Marine stuff to my Sisters because they don't get resupplied from the Ecclesiarchy at all (internal politics) and a supply depot from a Loyalist branch of the Iron Wars was opened up to them "So long as they fight those who would destroy what the Emperor has built to save Man."

 

...

 

Forge World Models are so very nice looking, so don't judge me,

[noigrim]

They don't even have ships, the navy has to loan them space

[ThePenitentOne]

They don't even have ships, the navy has to loan them space

 

Read back a few posts. This has been referenced- on page 12-13 of the Codex, it states that many Orders have naval assets on century long loans, and then goes on to list their fleet assets.