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Veil of darkness, effective use thereof.

necron

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8 replies to this topic

#1
Beatnik cryptek

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The VoD is one of the most effective and commonly used tools a necron player has access to. But how to use it the most effectively?

Many uses I've seen in batreps seems to involve using it to transport destroyers to a choice location to assassinate a key unit like a troublesome tank or artillery unit.

This frequently results in a lost destroyer unit as it generally comes under massive retaliatory fire and is utterly destroyed. it can be worthwhile if the target unit was particularly powerful.

I want to look at a use i rarely see, using a cryptek with chronometron and VoD to transport a 20 man unit of warriors to within 12" of an enemy unit.

Consider that 40 S4, AP1 BS3 shots is something even duh spess muhreens will not emerge from without losses.

The advantage to using 1 20 man unit of warriors rather than a unit of destroyers or immortals is simple: 20 T4 targets with a 5++ save are harder to completely annihilate than a 6 or 10 man unit. Also note that with a cryptek 50% on average will reanimate. This can either make it take longer to destroy them giving them more time to fire, or force the enemy to expend excessive firepower to kill them in one turn.

 

This 20 warrior unit can do considerable damage with a little effort and planning. Casting MWBD on it prior to the VoD makes it hit on a 2+. Firing a triarch stalked at  it's target it's it reroll ones to hit.

If you can manage to teleport them to a location that counts as cover, so much the better.

This tactic is even more effective than otherwise if used with the mephrit dynasty as they can teleport to within 12" and get a -2 AP on their flayers. Plus they can use talent for annihilation to make extra attacks on the hits of 6, and with 40 shots going out there should be on average 6-7 6's, extra  s4, ap2 attacks hitting on 2+ and rerolling ones.Likely another dead spess muhreen or two.

The unit's main weakness is that it's vulnerable to failed morale rolls which mean unrecoverable casualties, and lacks hard hitting anti tank /monster firepower.

 

It clearly will take losses assuming your opponent is awake, and is likely to be wiped out over 2-3 turns especially if the dice gods are unkind. Still, it can do a hard hit to an enemy early on and with even average luck persist long enough to be a dagger in the enemy's side for a couple turns.

Also if a troublesome enemy unit deepstrikes into a vulnerable are it can be a powerful rapid response unit that can likely inflict serious harm on a DS unit.

So how do other phaerons use the VoD?





 


May we and those we care for all make our toughness and armor rolls versus COVID is this dark hour we find ourselves in.

#2
Panzer

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I want to look at a use i rarely see, using a cryptek with chronometron and VoD to transport a 20 man unit of warriors to within 12" of an enemy unit.

Consider that 40 S4, AP1 BS3 shots is something even duh spess muhreens will not emerge from without losses.

The advantage to using 1 20 man unit of warriors rather than a unit of destroyers or immortals is simple: 20 T4 targets with a 5++ save are harder to completely annihilate than a 6 or 10 man unit. Also note that with a cryptek 50% on average will reanimate. This can either make it take longer to destroy them giving them more time to fire, or force the enemy to expend excessive firepower to kill them in one turn.

 

This 20 warrior unit can do considerable damage with a little effort and planning. Casting MWBD on it prior to the VoD makes it hit on a 2+. Firing a triarch stalked at  it's target it's it reroll ones to hit.

If you can manage to teleport them to a location that counts as cover, so much the better.

 

 

That's a lot of efford to kill roughly regular 3 Primaris or 6-7 regular classic Marines. 4-5 regular Primaris or 9-10 regular classic Marines with hitting on 2+ and re-rolling 1s aka even more ressources poured into them. That can't be the selling argument. So perhaps it's better to focus on having a 20 model unit moved across the board. However it's rather difficult to find room for such a huge unit where it matters.

 

Also getting such a huge unit into cover is not an easy task so better don't count on that either. 


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#3
Beatnik cryptek

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Well wiping out most of a 10 man marine squad in one go can keep that squad from seizing an objective and deny them victory points. If that was an assault squad it can save you all manner of grief if it reached close combat abd began massacring your warriors. The squad can also serve as a speedbump in the enemy's path. It's something the enemy has to deal with which can jam up his plans.

If you have the right objective cards killing an enemy squad off can get you several points of your own which can give you an early lead while making it harder for the enemy to score points.

It's something to consider but only to be used when called for.
May we and those we care for all make our toughness and armor rolls versus COVID is this dark hour we find ourselves in.

#4
Panzer

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Yeah but with all those ressources poured into that one squad you still need a little bit of luck to actually kill a 5 man squad of regular Primaris, not to mention of tougher Marine units. The killing power really isn't that great for that. Other units should be able to do that more reliably. And as I said it's really difficult to setup such a huge unit where you need it since you have to stay more than 9" away from enemy units (12" if the enemy has some Infiltrators or such).

 

It's a clunky unit without much killing power. Expect most of your games to either not being able to place them where you'd need them or to not kill as much as you'd like to. Now teleporting them late game when the field cleared up and your Warriors are still there because your opponent rather dealed with your other units from one side of the board to another to claim an objective is of course a great application but is more of a "hopefully it works out in my favour" thing than "helps me to win the game" thing.


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#5
Beatnik cryptek

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I know a lot of people tend to think the VOD should be used for 'elite' units like destroyers or immortals. But remember that you can have at most 6 destroyers and 10 immortals. It takes a lot more hits to totally wipe 20 warriors than 10 immortals or 6 destroyers. As long as you have warriors left you can RP and as long as the cryptek is alive you get more back every time.

Yes this unit is very vulnerable to a character targeting attack as if the cryptek goes the unit is very vulnerable. Still it can last a turn or two longer that a smaller elite unit. It can hold an objective a turn or two longer, it can deny an enemy an objective for a turn or two longer that a smaller unit like destroyers that attract lascannon type weapons abd can die in a round of fire.

In the argument vs 'quality vs quantity' Stalin observed that quantity has a quality all it's own. And Stalin's arny won the war on the eastern front. Sometimes a big blob of troops that take lots of shots to wipe out is better than an elite unit that will attract lascannon eqvs and die quickly.
May we and those we care for all make our toughness and armor rolls versus COVID is this dark hour we find ourselves in.

#6
Panzer

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You already said all those things at the beginning. I read your post, don't worry. Nobody is denying that 20 Warriors are more durable. However you seem to not understand how impracticable your idea is though. Deep striking a unit and buff it in multiple ways just to kill a basic infantry squad is NOT a good use of your ressources most of the time and that is IF you can even get such a huge unit where you need it in the first place.


Every once in a while there will be a game where deep striking 20 Warriors is 1) possible and 2) a good idea. That's great. The majority of the games it will be better to use it on another unit though.


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#7
Beatnik cryptek

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It's NOT'' just to kill an infantry squad! '' You said you read my post and keep saying it's about ''killng an infantry squad'' despite the fact I've said a couple times it can be about holding or denying an objective.

Look, I don't think I'll respond to more of your posts on this topic. It's not because I can't refute your logic, it's because I'm tired of saying this tactic isn't about killing an infantry squad.
May we and those we care for all make our toughness and armor rolls versus COVID is this dark hour we find ourselves in.

#8
Panzer

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It's NOT'' just to kill an infantry squad! '' You said you read my post and keep saying it's about ''killng an infantry squad'' despite the fact I've said a couple times it can be about holding or denying an objective.

Look, I don't think I'll respond to more of your posts on this topic. It's not because I can't refute your logic, it's because I'm tired of saying this tactic isn't about killing an infantry squad.

 

Because you pour a lot of ressources into them to do just that and kept mentioning it as a great thing they can do. If you don't want to argue about their killing potential you shouldn't have made it such a big focus of your post.

 

On the other hand I didn't say anything against them being able to hold an objective except that they are a huge cumbersome unit that's difficult to find room for while staying more than 9" away from each enemy unit. Especially on objectives. Something you didn't even bother to adress.

 

 

Look, you think you had a great idea and wanted to share it to the rest of the community. I get that. We've all been there. You gotta be realistic about that and be open to critcism if you post it in a forum though. If you just want to share something without engaging in a talk with someone, well that's what Blogs and Youtube are for.

Likewise I'm open minded about your idea and would like to get convinced that it's a valid thing to do. Otherwise I wouldn't have bothered about replying here at all in the first place.


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#9
Vermintide

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Yeah, it'd be nice basically if it didn't rely on a full 20 Warrior blob, which is a pretty beefy chunk of models, as well as points.

Generally the most effective use is going to be immortals. I don't remember my points exactly but I'm pretty sure warriors are still badly overcosted, and ultimately it's still only strength 4 shooting. Lots of it, but the problem with strength 4 is like barely a third of it even goes through most of the time. With immortals you're getting much better dakka for a cheaper cost- Let the warriors do their job sucking up firepower elsewhere.

I have use the VOD less conventionally to get a chunk of Lychguard up in their face. 2 wounds apiece so they are (technically) just as durable as your 20 warrior hypothesis; even more so of you use the shielded version with built in invulnerable. I only have the scythe versions though, so typically it's more of a distraction that forces your enemy's hand- After all, they struggle to make their charge straight away, but if you don't deal with them, those warscythes WILL mess something up.

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