The Heralds of Retribution

[pawl]

Greetings brothers! I come to you in search of opinions and possibly assistance regarding a Dark Angels successor chapter.

 

Long story short I'm trying to get back into the hobby after an extended period of inactivity (pre-Primaris!). The Dark Angels have always been my favoured chapter, but I want to run an Unforgiven successor because purple is clearly better than green.

All I'm looking for is colour-scheme critique, and possibly some help with lore-craft.

 

Where the Dark Angels use the left knee pad to denote company affiliation, I want to use a more codex friendly system of shoulder trim colours, possibly combined with knee markings, as so:

 

(images are a little large due to being on mobile, so I've put them in spoiler tags)

(colours may yet be rearranged, but you get the idea)

 

3rd company / sergeant

 

4th company / sergeant

 

5th company / sergeant

 

6th company / sergeant

 

7th company / sergeant

 

8th company / sergeant

 

9th company / sergeant

 

10th company markings are nominally black.

Veterans get a white stripe.

 

 

This is an early idea for the first company.

(the painter I'm using doesn't have a terminator template. Also ignore the metallics)

 

Again, an early idea for the second company, but I'm less sold on this one.

 

 

How lore-friendly would it be to use a codex-esque system of colours? Would it be easy to explain breaking away slightly from the DA system?

 

I'm also having some trouble with transfers. I'm reluctant to attempt to freehand markings due to a painting level that sits at approximately tabletop quality, and also because I prefer the idea of proper uniformity. Unfortunately colour seems to be an issue.

Over a black pad, unit markings would be white (no red thanks!), but gothic unit numbers would be too large to sit inside the marking, and so black isn't possible as it would get lost in the background.

I hope that makes sense, and if so it would be appreciated if anybody has any ideas.

 

 

I hope I'm not being too cheeky by asking for advice with only my second post, and thanks to anybody that stops by!

Edited April 25, 2020 by pawl

[jbaeza94]

codex doesnt change the helmet color. i would pick a secondary color, such as the gray from knees and aquila, and use that for all sgt helmets if thats the route you want to take, some uniformity across the board, and makes the whole veteran, lieutenant  and captain thing easier to sort since they all follow the same scheme. 

 

not all da successors are da compliant so to speak. they dont all follow the DA way of marking, and it wouldnt even be strange for them to be 100% codex compliant. you dont even need a deathwing and ravenwing company in different colors, other chapters doing their own thing for their DW/RW equivalent, and some may not even have 2 seperate companies at all for them. in my chapter, the DW/RW are the same company and only denoted as veterans by the shoulder pad color on their right.

 

i dont think you need the number on the shoulder, since company is already denoted on the trim. not all codex chapters display the number on their shoulders, so a knee would be fine, or just the trim.

[Sandalphon]

Hi, great start! do they have a name?

 

Even a loose background can be enough to get the ball rolling with fleshing it out. There are lots of great examples and templates around for chapter building with prompts to get you started: name, emblem, Homeworld, famous battles, etc. Do they hunt the fallen or are they unaware? Are they xenos hunters or are they in a long running campaign against the perils of the warp?

 

The purple base looks great but the range of trims I guess works with mixed results. The high contrasting complimentary shoulders are quite striking - yellow,orange, blue and green. The only one I don't think is as successful is the 8th co. which gets a bit lost - bone works well with purple, but I notice you also have white so they might be a bit close. Another option could be metallic trims which are more neutral for higher ranks, gold and silver etc would work.

 

If you want to limit the palette to your preferred schemes you could denote troop type by colour (fast, heavy etc) rather than company. Similar to the old BA (do they still do that?). Company can remain numeric and perhaps that's on the knee?

 

The full helmet colour is also quite strong, you could consider the old head stripe if you want to tone it down a little (not that there's a need)

 

I'm not sure about the blue first company and how it relates to the rest of the purple scheme (perhaps the fluff will explain?) but the second company looks great imo. In a way you've flipped the the DA's bone/black 1st/2nd co.'s was that intentional?

 

Look forward to seeing them develop!

[Berzul]

I can share the color scheme of my successors, which tries to be very close to Codex.

 

The base of the scheme is a green armor, with darkened white pauldrons, belt, top of the backpacks, and the helmet stripe.

 

Edges of the shoulder pads, and the aquila in the chest, go the company color per the codex astartes (gold, in my case, as most models are 2nd Company, but terminators use white per the 1st company).

 

Sergeants have their right knee pad in the same darkened white color, and their helmets are full dark white, instead of green with a stripe.

 

It has really worked for me. I feel the army has a very good sense of organizational consistency and logic to them.

 

The structure, I feel, that the codex brings, applies very well no matter the color, as long as it is a good palette.

 

Your colors look absolutely perfect to me, and the full color helmet will certainly stand out when the main color around will be a colder one (that being the purple). Yellow, red and orange, i feel, make the best color combination.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Berzul

[pawl]

@jbaeza94

 

The Codex might not, but I'm not necessarily following it closely. I'm going more for a "rule of cool" approach, and just trying to force my ideas to fit!

I hadn't considered much above the rank of sgt, but was thinking I would use metallic elements somewhere. I really should figure out exactly how the ranks work, and which are above company level. Perhaps having company markings on the knee pads as well would be overkill, so they should be scrapped.

 

I prefer the idea of keeping a DW/RW component, with the idea that if/when fighting with DA there would be consistency between forces, and it would make cooperation easier. Plus the parallel with the Dark Angels revealing secrets as a Marine progressed through the ranks.

 

The shoulder number is to denote squad number, not company. =]

 

 

@Sandalphon

 

Cheers! No name as yet - tried looking for purple synonyms, but 'Angels Plum' doesn't really do it for me!

There's not much in the way of history yet. My early thoughts are that they were formed from the DA as a 1/2 company chapter to hunt a particular Fallen (or group thereof), with the majority being scouts or newer marines. Upon their successful return they were granted permission (without Terran consent) to remain and recruit as a chapter. That however doesn't give direct reason for diverging from DA standard markings.

At the time of the Primaris being introduced the whole chapter was away (hunt, war, caught in the warp, whatever - details obviously aren't fully formed!) and so didn't recieve the initial reinforcements, but have since gained the ability to create them. This has aided integration with the firstborn, and made ranking Primaris more easily accepted.

 

By the 8th company I'll admit I was struggling! Pink looked predictably ridiculous, so I settled for brown. A bone trim would be too easily confused with the grey of the 9th, I think (the grey could maybe do with being a little darker).

My vague plan for higher ranks was to possibly keep the company trim, but have the Aquila take a metallic colour. Alternatively to replace the black pauldrons with white instead, which might work better as it would be more noticable.

 

(I'm not sure if BA still do that, but I was never a fan!)

 

Are you thinking a stripe something more like this for sergeants?

https://i.imgur.com/NeSOBAh.jpg

(sorry, can't do a full stripe with this template)

If so I actually think that might work better. It's a little less garish if nothing else.

 

To be completely honest the midnight-blue was just a colour I liked the look of. I also liked the idea of darker terminators advancing near invisible in the night, impervious to any attempts to push them back. Again, no fluff, just like the colour!

The second company is the one that I've struggled most with, so it's nice to hear encouragement! Flipping the bone/black combo was semi-intentional, yeah. I thought that to counter the nightmare-terminator theme the idea of my RW speeding towards the enemy like a shining spear in the night would have made for a good remembrancer's tale!

 

 

@Berzul

 

You're more than welcome to! I think my biggest problem at the minute is with markings and heirarchy, but any inspiration is a good thing! And thanks for the kind words!

 

 

Again, my thanks to all three of you!

Edited March 31, 2020 by pawl

[jbaeza94]

you could follow similar to codex with markings for seniors, keep the company color on the helmet for sgts, for LT, add a stripe in purple, and for cpt add a stripe in another significant color, maybe the midnight blue of the DW, similar to how DA make a nod to the inner circle and DW with bone.

it sounds like there might be a terror or night theme, so i think the RW should follow a similar idea as well, white just feel out of place IMO. a dark purple or even black would work. maybe even a lighter version of the 1st, showing that they dont know as much of the dark secret as the first. im just spit balling ideas.

ive decided to make a mock up of the helmet idea to show what the 4th and 3rd company masters could look like using the midnight blue stripe over the company colors on the helmet, if you wanted to go with the blue = bone in your army.

Edited March 31, 2020 by jbaeza94

[pawl]

Strangely I had a play earlier too, and my results weren't too dissimilar from yours.

 

https://i.imgur.com/7lki8Jn.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/6ceDncE.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/14RpgAi.jpg

(white pads maybe?)

 

To play with your idea a little, I like the idea of a company colour stripe for sgt, full colour helmet for lt, colour helmet and white stripe & pads for cpt. Simply because I think the blue stripe could look 'off' with some company colours.

I like the idea of the blue robes having a tie to higher knowledge though, will have to have a play tomorrow to make sure they look right!

[jbaeza94]

glad my spit balling is getting somewhere lol

 

I'd keep black shoulders, just to tie the whole company together.

 

 

really digging the 3rd company scheme, id probably make those guys haha yellow just goes so well

Edited March 31, 2020 by jbaeza94

[pawl]

An outside perspective helps!

The scheme started with purple pads and black/white trim. When I couldn't decide I had a play and ended up with yellow, then black pads. The rest is just slowly falling into place around that!

 

And yeah, I imagine the majority of what I paint with be 3rd Co!

Ideally I would like to have units representing all 10 companies, with additional units from the DA and other Unforgiven chapters just because I can.

All in time though - I need to try and remember how to use a brush first!

[jbaeza94]

I'd like to give your guys a go when you get it all worked out! I had an idea in mind to create a squad or 2 of homebrew chapters from the da page.

 

I think the scheme is coming together well, get some lore thought up and that will help tie the little details together. Cant wait to read what these guys are about

[Skywrath]

As for a name - how about Angels of Terror? Or Dread Angels, something along those lines. Purple to me, screams (pun intended) fear. Maybe use that as a base idea? Great conversion on Lazarus btw. Massive fan. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Knight-Master Skywrath

[Sandalphon]

The Perps!

[Berzul]

Well, "purple combines the calm stability of blue and the fierce energy of red. The color purple is often associated with royalty, nobility, luxury, power, and ambition. Purple also represents meanings of wealth, extravagance, creativity, wisdom, dignity, grandeur, devotion, peace, pride, mystery, independence, and magic." So, in terms of name, how about

 

Royal Halos

Angels of Might

Sacred Sons

Hallowed Scions

 

Something along that line.

[jbaeza94]

Following berzuls comment,names could be

 

Royal Host

Angelic Host

Angels of Majesty

 

 

I really liked hallowed scions too

[Berzul]

Following berzuls comment,names could be

 

Royal Host

Angelic Host

Angels of Majesty

 

 

I really liked hallowed scions too

Angels of Majesty is absolutely awesome!

 

.... Man, I kinda wish I had thought of that one...

 

Maybe when I finish the Wings of Dawn, I'll make some purple successors heeheehee

[pawl]

@jbaeza94

If my colour scheme comes together as well as I'm hoping then I would be more than happy to share the recipe! I've got some things being delivered soon, including (hopefully) the perfect purple!

 

This is only a quick post as I'm busy at the minute, but I had been hoping that when the initial strike force was put together to hunt the as-yet-unnamed Fallen, they were sent with the words "Go, my Brothers. Go and be my Angels of Retribution."

A quick Google search however kinda ruined that idea, which is slightly disappointing. I might just roll with it anyway.

 

The reason behind the colour scheme/s is starting to form, and hopefully later on I'll have time to try and write out a very basic skeleton. Then I'll have to start looking at calendars and maps, which if I'm honest I'm not looking forward to!

 

I've also found a little time to do some name research, although it turns out GW have already had many of the choicest picks.

 

My thanks again though - you've all helped push me in the right direction!

[jbaeza94]

You can keep the "of retribution", but maybe choose a new word instead of angels:

Sword

Heralds

Lions

Blade

Scions

Host

Seraphim

Word

Bearers

 

Or do "retribution/Retributors of":

Caliban

The Lion

Angels

The 1st

The hexagramaton

Aldaruk

 

One more name in fond of, not sure if it makes much sense grammatically, but it sounds cool,

Angels or Archangels Retributor

[pawl]

So here's the notes I've been playing with on my phone as I've been pottering about today. Some of the names have specific meanings or reasons for choosing them, some just because they didn't sound too bad!

 

 

 

 

Heralds of Retribution

 

 

"For the Lion, for the Legion!"

 

 

Chapter / Supreme Grand Master :: Zaraphiel

Grand Master of Librarians :: Raziel (keeper of secrets, angel of mysteries)

Grand Master of Chaplains :: Nakiros (nakir - the denier)

Master of Apothecary :: Rafael (god heals)

 

 

 

 

1st Company :: White :: Barachiel

2nd Company :: Black :: Ophaniel

3rd Company :: Yellow :: Turiel

4th Company :: Red :: Lazareth

5th Company :: Green :: Samuel

6th Company :: Blue :: Arael

7th Company :: Orange :: Khamuel

8th Company :: Brown :: Azariah

9th Company :: Grey :: Thaumiel

10th Company :: Scout / Purple :: Zuriel

 

 

retribution

noun

punishment inflicted on someone as vengeance for a wrong or criminal act.

 

The chapter were raised specifically to punish the Fallen, so that when the Lion returns the Legion can stand as one against the enemies of Mankind.

 

 

Again, it's obviously still a work in progress. No colour scheme backstory yet either, still working on that!

Edited April 7, 2020 by pawl

[Berzul]

I am intrigued. Whats the story behind the name of the Chapter Master?

[jbaeza94]

Legion building is supposed to be a big no no, and having a moto as for the lion for the legion could raise some eye brows. Maybe it could be an "inner circle" kinda deal. Just thoughts, again take and discard what you want.

 

An interesting thing I discovered when looking up purple. Purple is also associated with bruising and foreboding. Maybe this could play into the identity and color of the chapter. Under the angelic and majestic exterior typically associated with purple, they carry the lesser known trait of purple pain of betrayal. This could make their drive to hunt that much greater, because the pain is much more engrained in the culture.

 

 

Edit: +1 for heralds of retribution

Edited March 31, 2020 by jbaeza94

[pawl]

It's a bit haphazard and poorly written, but here's some initial thoughts on a potential reason for the purple colouring;

 

 

The target of their initial hunt is a Fallen Angel known to be a Chaos sorcerer. Intelligence reports point to a backwater world where the sorcerer is believed to have travelled. The Heralds are made up of a hundred Brothers and Neophytes from the reserve companies, tasked with retrieving or neutralising the Fallen.

 

 

Upon landing, the Heralds learn of an ancient local tale of a Daemon sealed away in a hidden valley by a long-forgotten hero. The valley is 'guarded' by local shamans, who demand a yearly flesh sacrifice to keep the Daemon imprisoned. Any others who enter the valley are never seen again.

 

 

The elder who told the tale offers to act as a guide to the valley, but not before honouring a local tradition which calls for the petals of a rare, bright purple flower to be crushed into paste and daubed on a questing warrior's armour, that it might ward off evil spirits and bring good luck.

So blessed, the Heralds march into the valley, and find the Fallen at the head of a cabal of shamans, intent on bringing forth the Greater Daemon imprisoned millenia ago. In the process of subduing the former Angel the elder sacrifices himself to save the life of an Astartes.

 

...

 

Upon their return to the Rock, the Heralds are granted the right to recruit, hunt and make war under their own banner (who cares if Terra know?!). Access is given to Forge Worlds allied to the First that they can properly outfit themselves, and a small number of veterans from the Angel's ranks are assigned to them while they build their strength. The purple colouring of their armour comes from the flowers crushed in the ritual, and in honour of the old man's sacrifice.

 

 

 

@Berzul

It's just a bastardisation of 'seraph' or 'seraphim'. If it's an actual name then it was unintentional!

 

@jbaeza94

It is, but the Unforgiven have never exactly been known to play by the rules! I seem to recall that Dorn has secretly done the same, no?

 

And I think I've taken to Heralds of Retribution, thanks!

Edited March 31, 2020 by pawl

[Berzul]

(...)

 

@Berzul

It's just a bastardisation of 'seraph' or 'seraphim'. If it's an actual name then it was unintentional!

 

 

 

 

No, no, not at all.

 

It is just that, my Chapter Master for my own successors, is called Zerephiel.

 

I found the similarity very amusing, and I wondered if maybe my use of the name touched to an actual name out there, or one that had some lore behind it. Specially since my use of the name Zerephiel is actually an inside joke.

 

To explain: I am chilean. We speak spanish, over here. In spanish, Zerephiel sounds exactly like the phrase "Seré fiel", which, depending on context, tone and inflection, can be said to either mean "I will be faithful", or "will I be faithful?". Which is a joke, of sorts, because the name written down sounds like a variation on the name for a type of angel, and follows the conventions for Dark Angel names, but at the same time, when spoken, it is a statement of the untrustworthy nature of the parent chapter as a whole.

[pawl]

 

 

(...)

 

@Berzul

It's just a bastardisation of 'seraph' or 'seraphim'. If it's an actual name then it was unintentional!

 

 

 

No, no, not at all.

 

It is just that, my Chapter Master for my own successors, is called Zerephiel.

 

I found the similarity very amusing, and I wondered if maybe my use of the name touched to an actual name out there, or one that had some lore behind it. Specially since my use of the name Zerephiel is actually an inside joke.

 

To explain: I am chilean. We speak spanish, over here. In spanish, Zerephiel sounds exactly like the phrase "Seré fiel", which, depending on context, tone and inflection, can be said to either mean "I will be faithful", or "will I be faithful?". Which is a joke, of sorts, because the name written down sounds like a variation on the name for a type of angel, and follows the conventions for Dark Angel names, but at the same time, when spoken, it is a statement of the untrustworthy nature of the parent chapter as a whole.

That's really rather interesting! While I'm a staunch believer that the Dark Angels are, at their core, loyalist, I like the reference to the duality of their nature.

I was considering swapping the name out for one of the company masters, but he's definitely staying where he is now!

[Berzul]

 

 

(...)

 

@Berzul

It's just a bastardisation of 'seraph' or 'seraphim'. If it's an actual name then it was unintentional!

 

 

No, no, not at all.

 

It is just that, my Chapter Master for my own successors, is called Zerephiel.

 

I found the similarity very amusing, and I wondered if maybe my use of the name touched to an actual name out there, or one that had some lore behind it. Specially since my use of the name Zerephiel is actually an inside joke.

 

To explain: I am chilean. We speak spanish, over here. In spanish, Zerephiel sounds exactly like the phrase "Seré fiel", which, depending on context, tone and inflection, can be said to either mean "I will be faithful", or "will I be faithful?". Which is a joke, of sorts, because the name written down sounds like a variation on the name for a type of angel, and follows the conventions for Dark Angel names, but at the same time, when spoken, it is a statement of the untrustworthy nature of the parent chapter as a whole.

That's really rather interesting! While I'm a staunch believer that the Dark Angels are, at their core, loyalist, I like the reference to the duality of their nature.

I was considering swapping the name out for one of the company masters, but he's definitely staying where he is now!

 

Yeah, I do also believe they are loyal. But, it is funny, as an inside joke. Specially since "Dark Angels are Heretics" is pretty much the maximum expression of comedy in my gaming group ¬¬

 

But, trying to get back to the topic at hand:

 

So, this particular campaign was such a victory, that the brothers involved were granted recruiting rights and were turned into a chapter of their own? This feels like a good start, but I also feel like something had to have happened there that "made" the Chapter Master of the DA decide to allow this brothers to splinter off.

 

Maybe:

 

1) They were tainted in some way by the experience, and had to be taken out of the parent chapter

2) They witnessed something, or were witnessed doing something by their allies on the ground, which necessitated some distance from the parent chapter, and thus, were granted autonomy

3) They displayed a particular set of skills and abilities in their campaign, which made them acquire value before the eyes of the parent chapter, as a splintered group of warriors, with a more specialized focus in the great hunt

 

Something along those lines? Maybe?

[jbaeza94]

They could be like the disciple of caliban who were made to hunt at the request if the grandmaster if the da. I imagine they all know the secret. Maybe that's why they needed to splinter?