b1soul Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 Are they wild and feral, attacking anything Savage and unstable but not entirely feral like those in the French's Ahriman novel Quite lucid and capable of cooperation like in Warzone Fenris (probably my least favourite portrayal as it reminded me too much of the Worgen in Warcraft)? How does the Curse play out? Is it still portrayed as a proper curse, or it more of a blessing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHowler Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 I think the answer will depend on who you ask, as we all let our personal head canon flavor our understanding of the lore and GWs lore is (as always) notoriously inconsistent. Personally, I see it as a curse. The man is lost if he loses to the beast within. On the tabletop it comes across as nothing but win with no downside, but that’s only on the tabletop. If you met a marine who had succumbed to the curse he would not be the same man he was before. His wit, his pride, his memory of battles won and friends lost would all be overwritten by a feral bestial nature. His combat prowess may be unmatched, but “almost” everything he was before is gone. Per GW, they can apparently be spoken to and reasoned with, but I think the general feel even in the newest lore is that most marines would hope that they don’t wolf out, and all struggle to resist the change. What I don’t like about the new lore is that I get the feeling that GW now believes that the only “Wulfen” in the 40k universe are 13th company marines who returned from the warp. I could be wrong on that last part though. Iain_Stormeyes, Konnavaer and Valerian 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 (edited) they're not mindless like Death Company. They're lucid and can communicate... at least they can until battle is joined and the bloodshed starts. Edited April 3, 2020 by Wispy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikuEru Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 Savage and unstable but not entirely feral like those in the French's Ahriman novel Quite lucid and capable of cooperation like in Warzone Fenris (probably my least favourite portrayal as it reminded me too much of the Worgen in Warcraft)? Somewhere between the two. The most current portrayal of them is in Saga of the Beast. A Wulfen accompanies Ragnar and his chosen companions. And he's a :cussing whirlwind of murder. He can talk, he can banter, he can listen to commands (...and he howls. Quite badly) - still doesn't keep him from running right behind Ragnar to jump into the fray. But it's clearly portrayed as "This is effective, but too reckless.". Such a way to fight will get you killed. (No spoilers, because I don't know yet anyway.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 Are they wild and feral, attacking anything Savage and unstable but not entirely feral like those in the French's Ahriman novel Quite lucid and capable of cooperation like in Warzone Fenris (probably my least favourite portrayal as it reminded me too much of the Worgen in Warcraft)? How does the Curse play out? Is it still portrayed as a proper curse, or it more of a blessing? I wish it were all of the above. (Makes them more interesting) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted April 5, 2020 Author Share Posted April 5, 2020 (edited) I really liked the version in French's Ahriman work. In it, the Wulfen were portrayed as able to cooperate but extremely reckless (e.g. running straight into bolter fire and getting head-shotted). Their leader is also losing his sanity becoming more and more feral, which suggests to me the ultimate fate of a Wulfen is probably almost completely bestial and berserk, endangering friend and foe. It felt like a Curse with a major downside, but partially offset by the boon of enhanced strength and speed in combat (though far from being invincible)...kinda like BA Death Company or WE berserkers. The direction GW is taking them...is frankly a bit disappointing to me. Since Warzone Fenris, the Curse of the Wulfen now feels like a power-up to which every young Space Wolf should aspire. They're starting to come across as a fantasy Werewolf faction akin to Warcraft's Worgen. Apparently, it's only a Curse because it makes them ugly. Just a bit of venting...this and the Ragnar vs. Ghaz double-kill and double-resurrection tell me GW is really bad at crafting mature, compelling fluff...and it paintfully shows when BL authours are being forced to promote factions/models via their stories. Edited April 5, 2020 by b1soul Lord Ragnarok and NightHowler 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 Yeah I like the traditional it is shameful to go full beast mode...however we will let them lose on y0u if there is a practical reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 (edited) I will defer to lore master Valerian on this but I swear I remember reading the attitude to wulfen changed dramatically when we realized it has been happening since Day 1 when Russ was around. It took a bit of the stigma away when Logan and Njal realized we had weapons in the Aett ready for wulfen usage which indicated we used them in war Edited April 5, 2020 by TiguriusX Bulwyf 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 I will defer to lore master Valerian on this but I swear I remember reading the attitude to wulfen changed dramatically when we realized it has been happening since Day 1 when Russ was around. It took a bit of the stigma away when Logan and Njal realized we had weapons in the Aett ready for wulfen usage which indicated we used them in war May be so, but before that it was definitely a curse. “Thunder from fenris” highlights this for example. Although the wulfen brother helped in the end, he was being hunted by his wolf brothers because he had to be put down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted April 6, 2020 Author Share Posted April 6, 2020 Seems to me the Wulfen are now fully functional members of the Rout (uglier but bigger, stronger, faster, and tougher) and have lost that curse of bestial instability. Bulwyf 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 I think the stigma of Wulfen is gone. They seem to be a bit like a werewolf sub faction inside the Rout. I know some hate this but I like it. I am a huge fan of werewolves and having Wulfen with some control of themselves and self awareness seems a nice mix into standing SW lore and units. It is still a curse because you can't change back but for the Rout they definitely fulfill a berzerker role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikuEru Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Seems to me the Wulfen are now fully functional members of the Rout (uglier but bigger, stronger, faster, and tougher) and have lost that curse of bestial instability. Again: No. The newest releases still show that the other Space Wolves look at them with... disdain and a bit of suspicion. It is still a curse and not something to strive for. The Wolf within must be reigned in or you're doomed. But they are also brothers and still have the right to a warrior's death. As long as they are sensible enough to fight alongside the regular battle-brothers, they are welcome to do so. ...but they are reckless and go into berserker rage as soon as blood can be spilled. So they will surely find a warrior's death soon. Saga of the Beast/Saga of the Wolf begins with Ragnar and the Blackmanes still purging the last traitors from Fenris' Surface, relatively soon after Wrath of Magnus. So the 13th Co. Wulfen haven't been part of the SW for long. And, if I heard it right, it's only one - dunno if the fate of his 'squad' is mentioned. I will have a re-listen and note down some quotes in the coming days. Do not worry. They are not on a "Let's go full Wulfen to unlock TRUE POWAH!"-trip. Funny that Thunder from Fenris is mentioned, as I am listening to the SW Audiobook Collection right now. And in it, the Wulfen also holds to his last scraps of humanity to lead his battle-brothers to a bigger threat they didn't know about yet. Also they are clearly torn about the topic of killing him or taking him to the Wolf Priests so they may judge him. Lord Blackwood, Konnavaer and Bryan Blaire 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprophetofwar Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 On the whole head canon thing, I lean more that way. I get the whole werewolves and vampires fan clubs. I lean towards the old school view of them: powerful but dangerous and not at all human friendly. Monsters with varying levels of control. I like the 40k fluff having hints of those in the Marines. The gene seed that gives them their strong traits, will also rob them of wit and control if it goes too far. The idea of the space wolves marines constantly having to balance the strengths without giving in fully to the beast is far more compelling to me than a werewolf upgrade. I don't think that's the way gw will push it, but who knows. I mean they are their own unit now instead of the (I preferred) 'upgrade' for a squad member. Respect it without embracing it, and solemnly fear it as a part of the job hazards. barek 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted April 8, 2020 Author Share Posted April 8, 2020 GW's take feels like a werewolf upgrade BL was getting it right a few years ago (at least John French was) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debauchery101 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 I dont know why Logan Grimnar thinks collecting all of the random wulfen in the galaxy will Bring Leman Russ back. Wulfen who often attack friendly space wolves and when fighting alongside firstborn space wolves tend cause them to turn as well. Also it's now proven that the primaris marines who are made from fenrisian heritage display the same attitude and traits as the rest of them... So are they finally going to stop intentionally tainting the new initiates with the crazy juice? The Legion also at one point tried to rid this curse from their marines...its like snorting meth but then trying take tranquilizers to calm down...how about stop the meth you primitive idiots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteySödes Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 It’s almost like it’s a sci-fi/fantasy story and the several hundred year old space viking knows something you don’t. NightHowler, GrFlur, Bulwyf and 3 others 6 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 I just listened to the Saga of the Beast audiodrama. I really enjoyed it. The Wulfen in there was completely sane, he could speak rationally and take orders. He showed some bloodlust at times but when Ragnar barked an order at him he quickly calmed and complied. This is completely different from how Wulfen were portrayed before. And frankly I prefer this. The curse is still there because it is a permanent change but they are still Space Wolves at heart and can speak and follow/give orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triszin Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 I dunno, I eb on flow on how gw portrays them. I like to think, mentally they are overloaded by their senses. Like when a trained dog sees a squirrel, or focused on doing the tasks to get a treat. Hyper focused, senses overloaded just barely able to communicate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted April 14, 2020 Author Share Posted April 14, 2020 Yeah, I have the opposite sentiment to Buliwyf's. If that's the case, the "Curse" is purely cosmetic, i.e. the downside is just hairiness and an uglier mug. The upside is...you're still lucid but much stronger in combat (and you still have the clarity of mind to shoot and employ tactics etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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