Tactica: Intercessors

[Bulwyf]

So what exactly do veteran intercessors get now that we can use them? I know it is +1 attack and +1 leadership but is that it? I know the sarge in Intercessors squad can take TH now. Does that also mean they can take a storm shield as well?

[Kallas]

So what exactly do veteran intercessors get now that we can use them? I know it is +1 attack and +1 leadership but is that it?

 

Yes.

 

I know the sarge in Intercessors squad can take TH now. Does that also mean they can take a storm shield as well?

 

No.

[Bulwyf]

 

So what exactly do veteran intercessors get now that we can use them? I know it is +1 attack and +1 leadership but is that it?

 

Yes.

 

I know the sarge in Intercessors squad can take TH now. Does that also mean they can take a storm shield as well?

 

No.

 

 

Thanks brother!

[Karhedron]

So what exactly do veteran intercessors get now that we can use them? I know it is +1 attack and +1 leadership but is that it? I know the sarge in Intercessors squad can take TH now. Does that also mean they can take a storm shield as well?

No Storm shield unfortunately but he effectively has 10 ablative wounds from his pack mates.

 

With the Veteran Intercessor strat, he has 4 attacks which is the same as an SM Captain and our +1 trait means he is nearly as effective in combat. But unlike the Captain they are a Troop unit and only cost around 100 points. They also have plenty of anti-infantry firepower, a bunch of regular attacks and Obj Sec.

 

For 100 points and 1CP, they look like a pretty good investment to me. A couple of squads like that form a good basis to build a Battalion around.

[Valerian]

 

So what exactly do veteran intercessors get now that we can use them? I know it is +1 attack and +1 leadership but is that it? I know the sarge in Intercessors squad can take TH now. Does that also mean they can take a storm shield as well?

No Storm shield unfortunately but he effectively has 10 ablative wounds from his pack mates.

 

With the Veteran Intercessor strat, he has 4 attacks which is the same as an SM Captain and our +1 trait means he is nearly as effective in combat. But unlike the Captain they are a Troop unit and only cost around 100 points. They also have plenty of anti-infantry firepower, a bunch of regular attacks and Obj Sec.

 

For 100 points and 1CP, they look like a pretty good investment to me. A couple of squads like that form a good basis to build a Battalion around.

 

 

And then, when all of the Pack Leader's mates have been killed, you pop the Lone Wolf Stratagem card on him, and make him into a complete badass.  It's like getting a whole other melee character in your army for free.

[Karack Blackstone]

 

 

So what exactly do veteran intercessors get now that we can use them? I know it is +1 attack and +1 leadership but is that it? I know the sarge in Intercessors squad can take TH now. Does that also mean they can take a storm shield as well?

No Storm shield unfortunately but he effectively has 10 ablative wounds from his pack mates.

 

With the Veteran Intercessor strat, he has 4 attacks which is the same as an SM Captain and our +1 trait means he is nearly as effective in combat. But unlike the Captain they are a Troop unit and only cost around 100 points. They also have plenty of anti-infantry firepower, a bunch of regular attacks and Obj Sec.

 

For 100 points and 1CP, they look like a pretty good investment to me. A couple of squads like that form a good basis to build a Battalion around.

 

 

And then, when all of the Pack Leader's mates have been killed, you pop the Lone Wolf Stratagem card on him, and make him into a complete badass.  It's like getting a whole other melee character in your army for free.

 

This guy's going to become 4W if none taken, 3 if wounded once, and, if he has a TH, he's going to beat face hard and fast with those base 4A', hitting on 3's. I almost wonder if a CSwd is good for AI, the only issue being no AP and D1 will weaken those 5 dice in melee too much. Meh.

 

Edit: Wordy, too wordy. And repetitive.

 

What other weapons are good enough in points crunch situations?

 

CSwd is situational, and pretty strong at anti chaff, just nothing of real import will likely die, as 5A hitting on 2's with no AP and D1 isn't great, however it's a decent threat. Besides the +1 or +2 for LWolf Strat, 3 or 4 A's hitting on 2's wounding most models on 3's or 4's isn't too shabby, sometimes 5's makes it rough.

 

I am used to using IC's as anti-anything, and free CSwd's right now fit that bill. The issue is more that when BattleScribe gets the SotB update worked in, SW's will basically always want the TH, just no SS hurts a little, however as the thread is already aware that's what the 8+ Ablative are for, and the presence of a unit in an Impulsor for so little points with just the bare minimum weapons.

 

I think it's 79 points, just twin SB's.

 

So,

91 4 x IC's, ICL, with 5 ABR', 1 AGL (90 for no AGL).

TH Cost, is what, 16?

97 for Imulsor with just twin SB's and a SD.

 

So that's 204, 203 with no AGL.

 

That's a frickin' steal for a pocket TH LW HQ.

 

Edit: The Shield Dome is now factored in!

Edited April 16, 2020 by Karack Blackstone

[Karhedron]

I would have to be seriously short on points not to take a shield dome on that Impulsor. A basic transport with a 4++ is really annoying for your opponent, especially if the cargo is just deadly enough to make them sweat.

[Karack Blackstone]

I would have to be seriously short on points not to take a shield dome on that Impulsor. A basic transport with a 4++ is really annoying for your opponent, especially if the cargo is just deadly enough to make them sweat.

I'm not quite sure where it is in Battlescribe, so I will look.

 

Easily remedied!

[VIth]

Glad to see all the Intercessor love here — when Space Wolves were best competitively (and, IMO, most fun) is when we relied heavily on our Troops, and I think we’re headed in that direction again. I can’t see anyone competing in the middle of the board with a well-piloted Space Wolves army. Counter-Charge is back, hjolda Russ!, meaning even a superior assault unit like Death Company or Sanguiniary Guard has to be very, very careful: our characters have a natural 6” Heroic Intervention and a our 1 CP strategem can give one of said units with a Thunder Hammer a 6” HI as well.

 

My intent is to have 2-3 units of Incursors start out infiltrated with an Invictor Warsuit then have four Impulsors filled with four units of Intercessors, Ragnar, a Wolf Priest with the +2” charge and the Wulfen Stone, and a Wolf Lord with Wulfkin and a Master-Crafted Powerfist. Then a Spearhead detachment of three units of Eliminators and a Phobos Wolf Lord with Morkai bolts. I am so stoked to try this updated list!!!

 

One question for group: what do you think of running a 10-man pack of Bolt Rifle Intercessors (with Thunder Hammer) as veterans and deploying the via Cunning of the Wolf? It’s a 3 CP investment, but it’s also a lot of AP -2 shooting showing up, and one more serious threat for your opponent to deal with as everything comes crashing down turn 2. It’s hard to justify when you could get two squads for the same CP and one TH more in points, but I’d love to hear everyone’s thoughts.

 

Also, FWIW: if you’re having issues getting into combat, don’t forget to ram your Impulsors into things to eat overwatch or move block your opponent. I trapped a Knight against a building with two Impulsors last game for two turns as they have FLY so he couldn’t just move away. Tri-pointing most things with Impulsors will lock them in combat and prevent them from moving due to the FLY keyword.

Edited April 17, 2020 by VIth

[Karhedron]

One question for group: what do you think of running a 10-man pack of Bolt Rifle Intercessors (with Thunder Hammer) as veterans and deploying the via Cunning of the Wolf? It’s a 3 CP investment, but it’s also a lot of AP -2 shooting showing up, and one more serious threat for your opponent to deal with as everything comes crashing down turn 2. It’s hard to justify when you could get two squads for the same CP and one TH more in points, but I’d love to hear everyone’s thoughts.

I would be tempted to try a big unit of Aggressors instead for that kind of approach. For the cost of 10 Intercessors plus Hammer, you can get 4-5 Aggressors with Boltstorm Gauntlets and Fragstorm launchers. Now that is only 12 or 15 wounds as opposed to 20 from the Intercessors but that are T5 which compensates. Also the Intercessors get 10 shots at long range or 20 shots at 15". The Aggressors will get 40 or 50 shots on average at out to 18" and they will be AP-1 on T2 when they come on. In melee, every Aggressor has Power Fist attacks as opposed to just one TH in the Intercessor squad. Plus the whole lot just costs 1CP for Cunning of the Wolf.

 

We are one of the only Chapters with a way to deploy our Aggressors from Reserves and I think the Stratagem works better on them whereas Intercessors excel at using their longer range to move up the board either on foot or in Transports to contest the centre ground.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Karhedron

[Valerian]

Agreed with Karhedron on this one.  Also, it's already a challenge to find the points for the Troops to bring 2 Battalion Detachments, so buying a big unit of 10 makes that even more challenging.  Much prefer 6 units of 5 (whether Intercessors, or a mix of them and Incursors, or cheaper Firstborn packs, if you can't afford all Primaris), to get the 10 Command Points that come from that.

 

EDIT:  Pre-game, I'll be reserving one Command Point to put Aggressors into Reserves/Deep Strike via Cunning of the Wolf, and a second Command Point to make one unit of Intercessors into Veterans, so they can be a "proper" escort for Primaris Ragnar.  They're even getting the Wolf Guard pack markings.

[VIth]

Thanks for the feedback. I generally agree with it, although I will point out that between Bolter Discipline and the Rapid Fire strategem I think you’re under-selling bolt rifles (particularly in the AP -2 Tactical Doctrine). That could be 40 shots (for another 2 CP), but I still take to heart to cost/benefit ratio. I suppose I’m biased by my Aggressors being 2-for-2 in showing up and failing a charge two games in a row and thinking it would be nice to at least have more effective shooting if I can’t rely on them for combat for a turn.

 

WRT Wolf Guard: my intent is to paint the right knee of my veteran Intercessors with a yellow and black triangle pattern to denote their honorary-ish status, and continue painting my Aggressors with the Wolf Guard shoulder markings (which is the most logical designation, IMO). It seems so silly to make guys armed with dual-flamers or auto boltstorm guantlets with dual powerfists the equivalent to long-range fire support.

Edited April 17, 2020 by VIth

[Valerian]

WRT Wolf Guard: my intent is to paint the right knee of my veteran Intercessors with a yellow and black triangle pattern to denote their honorary-ish status, and continue painting my Aggressors with the Wolf Guard shoulder markings (which is the most logical designation, IMO). It seems so silly to make guys armed with dual-flamers or auto boltstorm guantlets with dual powerfists the equivalent to long-range fire support.

 

Yeah, I'm doing my Aggressors in Wolf Guard markings, as well.  Much better fit than as Long Fangs.  

[PeteySödes]

With the datasheet leaks how are we feeling about our bolt rifle options for 9th? Im pretty torn TBH, i havent had much playtime with intercessors in general but each option seems to have a place with it kinda nice (and infuriating to choose).

 

Im modeling up a squad of auto bolt rifles first for the "rapid response" but im worried about the lack of AP. I still see stalkers being a decent backfield option as well. Anyone thats actually had table time recently have any good insights?

[TiguriusX]

With the datasheet leaks how are we feeling about our bolt rifle options for 9th? Im pretty torn TBH, i havent had much playtime with intercessors in general but each option seems to have a place with it kinda nice (and infuriating to choose).

 

Im modeling up a squad of auto bolt rifles first for the "rapid response" but im worried about the lack of AP. I still see stalkers being a decent backfield option as well. Anyone thats actually had table time recently have any good insights?

Technically you get an AP once the Tactical Doctrine kicks in.

 

I think the main question is what do you expect to be shooting

 

Chaff like guard etc?

 

ABR don't fall far behind

[PeteySödes]

I don't have a specific target in mind really just roles. Im just theory crafting though so was asking how others' experience weighed in. I see bolt rifles as a pretty solid default, ABRs as a harassing mid/close range option, and the stalkers as a backfield obj holding unit.

 

Some questions:

• With mobility seemingly being key, does the ABR win over the BR or we been finding ourselves sitting on obj and utilizing rapid fire more?
• Has light cover been a challenge which the AP of a Bolt Rifle would be held in high regard?

In my mind, the aggressive nature of my personal playstyle seems to favor the higher number of shots esp if the other cover mechanics are affecting the hit but I can also see the argument for quality over quantity.

[TiguriusX]

The ABR is awesome if you are on foot

 

Advancing and firing gets those intercessors to mid field objectives fast enough to contribute

 

If you are using an impulsor that would change my evaluation

 

If your list synergy is aggressive you get a larger threat projection with ABR

 

Also...volume of fire is better than AP in certain situations

 

For example...ABR out perform BR firing at wulfen with storm shields

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

With the datasheet leaks how are we feeling about our bolt rifle options for 9th? Im pretty torn TBH, i havent had much playtime with intercessors in general but each option seems to have a place with it kinda nice (and infuriating to choose).

 

Im modeling up a squad of auto bolt rifles first for the "rapid response" but im worried about the lack of AP. I still see stalkers being a decent backfield option as well. Anyone thats actually had table time recently have any good insights?

There isn't a clear cut best option which as you pointed out is a good problem. I run mine on foot and prefer the auto bolt rifles because I can advance and still roll some dice. That and I tend to get to assault doctrine ASAP.

 

My suggestion would be to plan at a list and then look and see if a certain load out would help fill a gap.

[Valerian]

My Intercessor packs typically move into position to stand on the backfield/near-side Objectives, including the ones that are sometimes just forward of my deployment zone, but not too far into the No Man’s Land. Because of that, I have found the standard Bolt Rifle to be the most useful. I typically get 2 shots, all of the way out to 30” (which covers a huge amount of table surface using the new minimum sizes) with the AP to ignore Light Cover, etc. In the future, when all standard Marines go to 2W, however, I could definitely see transitioning to the Stalker Bolt Rifle for this role - I want to kill a Marine with every Wounding hit, and the added point of AP will help a lot, too.

 

My forward-focused units are riding in Impulsors, and geared toward melee, so I’ve found Assault Intercessors and Bladeguard to be most useful, which leaves Assault Bolt Rifles out of the running. If I weren’t using mechanized infantry, and just Foot-slogging, I’d definitely go with ABRs, but with the Impulsors, they just don’t seem to be as worthwhile.

[Jarl Caldersson]

My intercessors have been retired to back field objective babysitting. With assault intercessors supposedly the same cost as intercessors, I don't see me running up the field with standard intercessors anymore. With their heavy pistols at 18", and AP-1 they can cover middle ground well enough until they get into charge range.

 

The auto boltrifle assault3 looks good though 3 attacks can easily cover the lacK of AP-1. However it is rumored to be a misprint and it is actually assault2 If this is the case than stalker looks really good with ap-2 and 2 damage. That makes it a marine killer.

 

So intercessors in CQC, is being replaced by assault Intercessors. Marines getting 2 wounds means the stalkers 2 damage, AP-2 is going to be a stable way to remove marines. If auto bolt rifle is getting assault 3, that is going to be the best against mob armies like guard and Orks, if it's assault 2 I feel as though standard bolt rifles are better due to AP-1.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Jarl Caldersson

[PeteySödes]

Good points all around. I think my struggle then is still too many unknowns, the fate of the impulsor shield dome, the codex version the assault intercessors etc. Im fairly certain ill be doing at least one stalker unit it'll just be where i end up with my midfield options.

[Triszin]

then theres the likly hood that veteran intercessors are completely different then they are now, since they appear to be an elite slot

[Valerian]

The auto boltrifle assault3 looks good though 3 attacks can easily cover the lacK of AP-1. However it is rumored to be a misprint and it is actually assault2 If this is the case ...

They’ve been Assault 3 for a long time, now, so I seriously doubt they’ll go back to just 2 shots. Every adjusted weapon profile we’ve seen so far has been toward more lethality, not less.

[Jarl Caldersson]

 

The auto boltrifle assault3 looks good though 3 attacks can easily cover the lacK of AP-1. However it is rumored to be a misprint and it is actually assault2 If this is the case ...

They’ve been Assault 3 for a long time, now, so I seriously doubt they’ll go back to just 2 shots. Every adjusted weapon profile we’ve seen so far has been toward more lethality, not less.

I hope they don't change assault 2 would make the rifle redundant imo. These 3 currently rifles have very defined roles and fulfill them well.

[Karhedron]

then theres the likly hood that veteran intercessors are completely different then they are now, since they appear to be an elite slot

That is a really good question. Do they just get the +1A and +1Ld built in rather than having to pay a CP for them? Or are they something different? My hunch is they are basically a datasheet version of the existing option to upgrade. I think that Bladegard Veterans fulfil the niche of a melee-orientated Primaris elite unit.

 

Then again, maybe they will be a bit better. Perhaps similar to how Sternguard are better Tactical Marines (actually I don't know anyone who takes Sternguard so that may not be such a great comparison ).