Nids are just in a bad spot at the moment. They are in a really weak place right now.
Horde armies just dont work, genestealers are only usefull if you get the turn 1 charge, and the big monsters are terrible.
So I am looking at what works for space marines and trying to incorperate that into a nid list.
So for example: Chapter vs Hive Fleet
Iron Hands can move and shoot heavy weapons without penalty, and re-roll 1s with heavy weapons...but only turn 1 now.
Tyranids can get move and shoot heavy weapons, or advance and fire assault weapons with out penalty, but all game.
Iron hands get a 6+++, with a stratagem for it to become 5+++ on a unit. Nids have a psychic power to get a 5+++ on a unit instead.
Space marines get +1A when charged etc. Nids can get +1 to hit...but only for monsters.
So with that in mind, for this list I am thinking of Morphic Sinews & Prey Sight.
So most space marine players have a batallion CP dumb.
This consists of a librarian and Lieutenant (usually primaris types) with 3 squads of 5 scouts.
So for nids, HQs would be:
Neurothope - Similar to a Primaris Librarian, trading fighting for a 3++
Tyranid Prime - Similar in stats, with the prime having an extra S, T & W. Both have no invun. The lieutant gives re-roll 1s to wound in a 6" bubble while the prime gives +1 to hit to Warriors within 6".
For troops you are taking 3 units of swarms.
Now every single SM list has a Captain (Chapter Master), usually primaris.
The closest nids can get is a Brood Lord. The brood lord gets a 5++ instead of a 4++, but gets +1 S&T and either a better weapon or effectivly better WS, and is also a level 1 psycher. The captain gives re-roll 1s (failed) hits, the brood lord gives genestealers +1 to hit. Basically the broodlord is a better offensivly while the captain is better buffing.
The second HQ is a bit more tricky.
I guess most lists have a chaplain. The clostest nids can get to this is probably a Malanthrope.
The chaplain gives a buffing power to units within 6", while the Malanthrope gives a -1 to hit auro to units within 6".
Next is the invictor warsuite. Usually seeing 2 of these.
I am thinking the closes we can get is a trygon for similar points. All stats are the same except the trygon has an extra 2(3) attacks while the warsuite has +1W (and effectivly S14). The warsuite can deploy 9" away but they trygon can deepstrike and act as a drop pod. The warsuite has more guns...yea the warsuite is better but still, its as close as i can get.
Then its Centurion Devistators.
Usually units of 4 with lascannons or heavy bolters.
3 Devistators with lascannons or 4 with heavy bolters is equivalent to 6 Hive Guard with impaler cannons.
The lascannons put out 6 S9 AP-3 DD6 shots and heavy bolters put our 24 S5 AP-1 D1 shots, while the hive guard put out 12 S8 AP-2 DD3 shots, but hive guard ignore cover and LOS...and who are you kidding, your double tapping that unit for 24 shots. However centurions have better wounds, armour and S, and are also good in combat.
So basically we trade better shooting for worse survivability and combat. Whoever wins that fight will be the one that shoots 1st, which with ignore LOS should be the hive guard
The next one is a bit tricky.
Usually your seeing tripple thunderfire cannons...but nids dont really have much to compare that to
So instead i will take the Repulsor Executioner with Las. I have seen a few lists with just one of these because if it dies to can still shoot.
I think the closest we really have is the Exocrine. Armour means nothing really as any weapons shooting at them will most likely ignore it, but both have T8. Both benefit from standing still.
The Executioner has better Anti-tank and lots of low strength shots, while the exocrine has more average S and D shots. However you can get 2 exocrines for 1 executioner...which is about right.
The Executioner will most likely be benefitng from the chaper master re-rolls however giving it a 86% hit rate compared to the exocrines 66% (assuming standing still)
Also somewhat similar to the leviathan with storm cannons
Againt most lists are running 3 units of 5 Intercessors with stalker bolt rifles.
Now i am thinking 3 units of 3 Tyranid Warriors with adrenal glands, deathspitters, bone swords and venom cannons.
These come to the same points as the Intercessors.
2 of them could also come up with the Trygon meaning that its instictive beaviour is not an issue.
However before PA i would have said this is the best way to run them. But PA gave nids 2 very important things.
1) Unyielding Chitin: This means than unless you are D4 you are not killing a warrior &
2) Enhanced Resistance: Reducing AP -1&-2 to AP0 means standing in cover you warriors are getting a 3+ save.
With the amount of AP-1/2 and D2 weapons out there now i am thinking of combining those 3 units into 1 big 9 man unit.
This would mean that the other 2 troops slots would be taken up by probably termagaunts as they would also provide some screening, especially in turn 1.
Finally the last choice.
Not really sure what to put in here for space marines but i guess i will just compare the next choice to the Redemptor Dreadnought with Plasma
For this i am thinking of carnifex with Heavy Venom Cannon & Monstrous Crushing Claws, Tusks and Enhanced Senses.
The Redemptor has 5 more wounds and +1S (Effective S14 vs S12)
The Redemptor has D6 S9 AP-4 D2 shots, while the Heavy Venom Cannon Has D3 S9 AP-2 D3 shots.
If the carnifex charges, both will have 5 attacks, which hit on 3s, while the carnfiex will need 3s to wound vs the redemptors 2s.
The carnifex is 55 points cheaper however, meaning i can effectivly get 3 carnifexs for 2 redemptors.
And so the list:
Batallion 1: +5CP
Neurothrope - Warlord (No trait)
- Powers are Smite and Catalyst
- Resonance Barb
- Lashwhip & Bone Sword
3* 3 Rippers
6 Hive Guard
- Impaler Cannons
Batallion 2: +5CP
- The Horror
- Enhanced Resistance
- 6 Death Spitters
- 3 Venom Cannons
- 9 Bone Swords
2 *10 Termagaunts
- 10 Fleshborers
- Murderors Size
- Adrenal Glands
- Adrenal Glands
- Heavy Venom Cannon
- Monstrous Crushing Claws
- Enhanced Senses
This comes in at 1967 points.
So you could add spores to the carnifex's, or make on the the trygons a prime and give him the relic for 3D6 charge dropping the lowest, or increase one of the termagaunts to an 18 strong unit.
While i did think about the malanthrope i have 2 big problems with it.
1) Its not a psyker and this list is already severly lacking is psychic powers
2) -1 to hit aura against a lot of lists is just not that good. Yes against some lists its amazing but against space marines especially the re-rolls to hit just negates so much of that.
Still, a brood lord could be dropped out for a malanthrope if so wished, in which case i would probably give the canifex's spores, and drop one of the bone swords off the warriors/prime for the extra 2 points
Edited by jgascoine011, 05 April 2020 - 08:47 PM.