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What scattered the primarchs


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#1
b1soul

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As I recall, the pivotal scene etched into our collective memory as readers is in the opening trilogy of the HH series, i.e. Horus witnesses the scattering of the infant primarchs by the Primordial Annihilator

Spoiler


Anyone else have other theories of how

Spoiler


#2
Scribe

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All Warp Power, is Chaos.

It doesn't matter who uses it.

That's how I am resolving this. I'm not going to assume
Spoiler

Smash Fascists.

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DISOBEY


#3
calgar101

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I would say either she struck a deal with the pantheon or was a pawn.


#4
DarkChaplain

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Whatever the author feels like did it at any given time. Probably Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau.


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#5
SpAcEGhOsT095

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Until proven otherwise, I am of the belief that was Omegon in a wig.



#6
mc warhammer

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i'm kinda curious about the actual mechanics of it. what did she use to slingshot the babies into space?


'WHEN WE CONFRONTED THE CORRUPTED, HOMICIDAL HORUS WHO ONCE USED TO SHINE LIKE THE BRIGHTEST STAR, WHO USED TO BE OUR BELOVED FAVOURITE – WHEN THE FATE OF THE GALAXY HUNG BY A THREAD – WERE WE NOT COMPELLED TO EXPEL ALL COMPASSION? ALL LOVE? ALL JOY? THOSE WENT AWAY. HOW ELSE COULD WE HAVE ARMOURED OURSELVES? EXISTENCE IS TORMENT, A TORMENT THAT MUST NOURISH US. EVIDENTLY WE MUST STRIVE TO BE THE FIERCE REDEEMER OF MAN, YET WHAT WILL REDEEM US?’

 

#7
Xisor

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Psychic phenomena/perils of the Warp entirely accounts for it, in my estimation.

There isn't cause/effect any more than "the Emperor tried to manifest a power, and it went not entirely to plan..."

See also genies/wishes.

Emperor & psykers casting such a big spell, it's got a fair chance of going wrong, or at least not entirely correctly.

Look at the Dark Heresy 2 psychic rules: "To cast CREATE PRIMARCH I'm gonna have to be at least level ten, so I'll have to PUSH to get that +3 level bonus, but that's an auto Psychic Phenomena roll, with a +15 modifier. Pfft, it'll probably just rot all the fruit in a 10*PRkm radius, nothing terrible.

*rolls d100*

Cast!

*rolls d100*

Gravity inverts?! Maybe I should fate a re-roll. Fine...

*rolls a d100*

Hey, where did all the caskets go?"

#8
Scribe

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i'm kinda curious about the actual mechanics of it. what did she use to slingshot the babies into space?

 

Spoiler

Smash Fascists.

...

DISOBEY


#9
mc warhammer

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i'm kinda curious about the actual mechanics of it. what did she use to slingshot the babies into space?

 

Spoiler

 

yeah, "warp shenanigans" and all that entails seems to be the only choice in my mind, but i'm just wondering whether the book actually details the nuts and bolts


Edited by mc warhammer, 07 April 2020 - 01:06 AM.

'WHEN WE CONFRONTED THE CORRUPTED, HOMICIDAL HORUS WHO ONCE USED TO SHINE LIKE THE BRIGHTEST STAR, WHO USED TO BE OUR BELOVED FAVOURITE – WHEN THE FATE OF THE GALAXY HUNG BY A THREAD – WERE WE NOT COMPELLED TO EXPEL ALL COMPASSION? ALL LOVE? ALL JOY? THOSE WENT AWAY. HOW ELSE COULD WE HAVE ARMOURED OURSELVES? EXISTENCE IS TORMENT, A TORMENT THAT MUST NOURISH US. EVIDENTLY WE MUST STRIVE TO BE THE FIERCE REDEEMER OF MAN, YET WHAT WILL REDEEM US?’

 

#10
Scribe

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Spoiler


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#11
Nemesor Tyriks

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Wasn't there a scene in an earlier Heresy book of some traitors being brought to see that happen by some warp shenanigans?  It's been at least a few years so I might be mistaken.  



#12
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Wasn't there a scene in an earlier Heresy book of some traitors being brought to see that happen by some warp shenanigans?  It's been at least a few years so I might be mistaken.  

 

Yes, in The First Heretic, it was Argel Tal and his squad, but they were in the Eye of Terror, in the middle of what could easily be justified to be a vision/lie/dream/nightmare.


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#13
BrainFireBob

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First Heretic. The Word Bearers damage the Gellar fields around the pods keeping the Primarchs in their warp wombs. Valdor is there, as is Big E. Big E initially telekinetically stops them, then does a "so be it" and releases them into the warp. Implication is he rolled with it and didn't fight it.

Ties into the perfect landings of so many Primarchs- psychic judo. Used the Chaos God's snatch force against them to slingshot them to "relatively" appropriate havens

Edited by BrainFireBob, 07 April 2020 - 01:47 AM.


#14
Nemesor Tyriks

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Wasn't there a scene in an earlier Heresy book of some traitors being brought to see that happen by some warp shenanigans?  It's been at least a few years so I might be mistaken.  

 

Yes, in The First Heretic, it was Argel Tal and his squad, but they were in the Eye of Terror, in the middle of what could easily be justified to be a vision/lie/dream/nightmare.

 

Yes! Thank you.  I should re-read that, I remember enjoying it but not much else.



#15
DarkChaplain

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At this point, I'm honestly more confused what kind of bargain the Emperor struck on Molech to begin with. We now know this and that about the Primarchs' creation, probably too much, but still have no real answer as to where that Molech bit fits in.

 

Spoiler

 

We know the Gods consider the Emperor not just a regular old threat to themselves, but also a traitor who didn't uphold a bargain, and that the Emperor went into that portal and had Alivia Sureka keep watch over it just in case he needs it again. How does that fit into the mix now, with these recent retcons? The bloke has a full cast of super competent geneticists working on the project, did nobody ever figure "hey, what's this weird goop in the biomaterial"?



#16
Nemesor Tyriks

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At this point, I'm honestly more confused what kind of bargain the Emperor struck on Molech to begin with. We now know this and that about the Primarchs' creation, probably too much, but still have no real answer as to where that Molech bit fits in.

 

Spoiler

 

We know the Gods consider the Emperor not just a regular old threat to themselves, but also a traitor who didn't uphold a bargain, and that the Emperor went into that portal and had Alivia Sureka keep watch over it just in case he needs it again. How does that fit into the mix now, with these recent retcons? The bloke has a full cast of super competent geneticists working on the project, did nobody ever figure "hey, what's this weird goop in the biomaterial"?

I also don't get the timeline of his trip to Molech.  Maybe I missed something but he had Primarchs with him, right?  Was that a second trip?  Was the first before the Dark Age of Technology?  That whole plot, I felt, muddled things up.



#17
b1soul

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The Warp/soul enhancement is probably separate from the bio material, I would imagine. It's still a mystery how E infused the primarchs with Warp essence, unless the "undesired" trip through the Warp was the final ingredient.


Spoiler


[w]

#18
BrainFireBob

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I always suspected Emps got the better of the bargain, not that he broke it.

Either the Primarch's daemon-killing gifts, or half would fall to Chaos- and Emps stacked the deck so they got the crazies. Maybe the Marines were a freebie. Maybe they doubled his power, and he planted it as 20 "seeds". Or maybe it was a loan he took from the Warp and put in stable physical bodies where they couldn't reclaim it.

Heck, maybe the two missing Primarchs were dog piled at a hint of corruption, so the Big Four couldn't get their tithe.

Edited by BrainFireBob, 07 April 2020 - 03:40 AM.


#19
b1soul

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Is there anything concrete stating that the Emperor borrowed from the Warp to boost the primarchs?

Could it be that the Emperor originally intended the primarchs "merely" to be genetically perfect warrior-generals, and the Warp empowerment

Spoiler


The Emperor then ran with it, realising that the Warp shenanigans resulted in less stable but also more potent primarchs.

So back to the old debate over whether the Emperor intended for the primarchs to be whisked through the Warp, but the debate could be extended to whether the Emp intended for his "sons" to be Warp infused.

#20
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Rampant Speculation (or how I wish it was).

 

Spoiler

Edited by Scribe, 07 April 2020 - 04:53 AM.

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#21
b1soul

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I think Erda would fit into 5 neatly

#22
nagashnee

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I honestly dont think BL knows or has any clear ideas other then 'popular authors opinion in new book xxx'.  Which i believe is their idea of ambiguous origins.  


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#23
Scammel

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At this point, I'm honestly more confused what kind of bargain the Emperor struck on Molech to begin with. We now know this and that about the Primarchs' creation, probably too much, but still have no real answer as to where that Molech bit fits in.

 

I also don't get the timeline of his trip to Molech.  Maybe I missed something but he had Primarchs with him, right?  Was that a second trip?  Was the first before the Dark Age of Technology?  That whole plot, I felt, muddled things up.

 

I don't recall there being any implication that the Emperor's activities on Molech were in aid of anything other than personal empowerment. The Primarchs were definitely around and were themselves unchanged by events on Molech, besides the Emperor wiping their memories.



#24
Robbienw

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The first trip to Molech was sometime during the age of strife, when he went into the portal to gain whatever he got/took from the warp. He got there in a spaceships but didn’t leave in it, so must have got back to earth using warp shenanigans.

The second trip was during the crusade with several of the primarchs, and resulted in Molech being compliant and heavily fortified.

Of course the first trip to Molech was the first in context of Vengful Spirit plot, he could have been there before during the Age of Technology or some such. He acquired prior knowledge of the portal there somehow.
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#25
Phoebus

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Rampant Speculation (or how I wish it was).

Spoiler

My thoughts on the matter, based on the readings available:

Spoiler

Edited by Phoebus, 07 April 2020 - 02:17 PM.

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