Land Speeder crew helmets, yellow or not?

[appiah4]

Xenith's post got me flicking through my 3rd Edition codex and yeah, red helmets it is.

 

Something just doesn't look right about yellow helmets to me..

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by appiah5

[The4thHorseman]

Well, to be Fair, 2nd Ed had Yellow Helmets.

 

 

[Leonaides]

But 2nd ed speeders were the best. Not like the plastic chunky-monkeys.

[Jolemai]

Has anyone tried yellow helm with black skull face? I'd be keen to see that variation.

Fwiw my LotD have black with a bone face. (Misc imperial blog). Looks cool.

[Jolemai]

My Landspeeder is a Typhoon with a Multi-Melta..  Yellow just doesn't feel right on a skimming gunboat like that

If it helps, think of it as a slightly larger anti-grav Attack Bike. A skimming gunboat would be a Stormtalon.

[FishFuzz99]

Has anyone tried yellow helm with black skull face? I'd be keen to see that variation. 

 

I was thinking of trying that out. I really don't like how they look with the yellow/bone.

[Xenith]

 

Has anyone tried yellow helm with black skull face? I'd be keen to see that variation. 

 

I was thinking of trying that out. I really don't like how they look with the yellow/bone.

 

 

Yea, I think it would look ace 

 

That said, I'm not opposed to this look:

 

[Closet Skeleton]

2nd edition is ancient. LOTS of things have changed in the past almost 30 years. If you don't just want to talk nostalgia you shouldn't really point towards outdated ressources I'd say.

 

As for the vehicles part, the 8th edition Codex also says that every company except for the 10th maintain a host of support vehicles which range from Rhinos and Razorbacks to Bikes and Land Speeders.

However that does not mean that every company has absolutely every kind of vehicle at their disposal. It makes no sense for a reserve company focussed on Battleline squads to have Bikes and Land Speeders because using those is the job of Close support squads.

 

So, I'm not confused at all. I'm just not considering outdated ressources to answer questions of the present. Especially not when we live in a time of change with Primaris getting added and FOC slots and Battlefield roles getting more separated and everything.

 

 

Its only 'outdated' for Blood Angels whose codex is less detailed on those matters. Its not out of date for Ultramarines where it was still mentioned in 7th. The 8th ed book is about the revised Codex Astartes post Guiliman so that might be relevent to it not being in the current one.

 

The 6th and 7th companies are not purely focused on battle-line squads and never have been, rather they have two roles, one is being reserve battle-line squads the other is being vehicle crews. If that makes no sense to you then its the Space Marine company fluff you don't like. Reserve companies don't have single roles, they both provide reserves to reinforce battle companies and function as specialised forces that can deploy and operate as a company in their own right. A specialised force of battle-line generalist squads doesn't make much sense, so there's some logic to those two companies specialised roles being slightly different to their squad make-up, while the 8th and 9th's specialised roles are more in line with the specialised squads they're made up of.

 

I didn't say you were confused, I just don't think you've read enough non-BA codexes. The 8th ed marine codex is explicit that the 6th and 7th while each consisting of 10 battleline squads ALSO deploy as vehicle companies and that large skimmer formations are drawn from those rather than the 8th which operates as a specialised assault formation.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Closet Skeleton

[redshadow]

Don’t know if this helps but there a full chapter explained on bell of souls

Ultima founding so most up to date I could find

 

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/08/warhammer-40k-organization-of-a-primaris-chapter-prime-bonus.html

[FishFuzz99]

 

 

Has anyone tried yellow helm with black skull face? I'd be keen to see that variation. 

 

I was thinking of trying that out. I really don't like how they look with the yellow/bone.

 

 

Yea, I think it would look ace 

 

That said, I'm not opposed to this look:

 

 

 

 

I did end up painting some reivers with black face masks, I'll try and get some pictures up when they're finished. It doesn't look awful but it isn't great either. TBH I'm thinking I just don't like the yellow helmets.

[FishFuzz99]

 

 

 

Has anyone tried yellow helm with black skull face? I'd be keen to see that variation. 

 

I was thinking of trying that out. I really don't like how they look with the yellow/bone.

 

 

Yea, I think it would look ace 

 

 

I did end up painting some reivers with black face masks, I'll try and get some pictures up when they're finished. It doesn't look awful but it isn't great either. TBH I'm thinking I just don't like the yellow helmets.

 

Gave a go at glowing red eyes, which turned out ok. 

 

 https://imgur.com/a/U6XD7gv (not sure how to upload an image on here)

Edited April 15, 2020 by FishFuzz99

[SnorriSnorrison]

The glowing eyes effect looks good, but I agree in that the yellow helmets for Reivers look a bit odd. Don’t know what it is, even on GW stock photos...just red and a black skull mask would probably look ace.

[Thoridon]

The yellow and blue helmets do look out of place on most of our close support / heavy models. If I was painting the models disregarding all heraldry/markings I'd leave them red. As it is I (mostly) decided to follow Codex markings so I go for the yellow and blue, but I do think they'd look better in red in most cases.

 

It's typically because it's the only place we use that colour on the model. If the Reiver had more yellow in places as a secondary/tertiary colour it would look more like it belongs, but a bright yellow helmet with no supporting colouring on the rest of the model simply doesn't fit the eye. But then adding more yellow elsewhere would be going away from the Chapter scheme, which is the point of doing the yellow helmet in the first place.

 

That's not a criticism of anyone's painting - I feel the same about my own.

 

The picture Xenith linked shows the yellow looking a better fit as it's less saturated, only a side colour on the face mask and supported by the yellow knee pad. The red remains more dominant on that model and the yellow isn't as distracting to the eye.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Thoridon

[Iron Lord]

 

 

The 6th and 7th companies are not purely focused on battle-line squads and never have been, rather they have two roles, one is being reserve battle-line squads the other is being vehicle crews. If that makes no sense to you then its the Space Marine company fluff you don't like. Reserve companies don't have single roles, they both provide reserves to reinforce battle companies and function as specialised forces that can deploy and operate as a company in their own right. A specialised force of battle-line generalist squads doesn't make much sense, so there's some logic to those two companies specialised roles being slightly different to their squad make-up, while the 8th and 9th's specialised roles are more in line with the specialised squads they're made up of.

 

I didn't say you were confused, I just don't think you've read enough non-BA codexes. The 8th ed marine codex is explicit that the 6th and 7th while each consisting of 10 battleline squads ALSO deploy as vehicle companies and that large skimmer formations are drawn from those rather than the 8th which operates as a specialised assault formation.

 

Yup.  I figure that all members of the  6th and 7th will be wearing red helmets, regardless of what they're actually riding in, and the 6th and 7th possess Land Speeders and Bikes.  The

 

"According to the tenets of the Codex Astartes, Bikers are drawn from amongst the ranks of the Assault squads"

 

thing, only applies when the company possesses Assault Squads (or Close Support Squads). A company that does not (the 6th or the 7th) yet still has Bikes/Speeders, won't  be repainting their helmets before getting into them.

 

For that matter, a case could be made that even the 9th Company has access to Bikes and Speeders,  since:

 

"each company, save the 10th, also maintains a host of support vehicles. These range from Rhino  and Razorback transports to bikes and speeders  -  such tools are drawn on whenever the tactical situation requires. This allows even a single Blood Angels company to fulfil a  multitude of tactical and strategic roles."

 

 

So, you could plausibly have bikes or speeders with blue helmets, representing the rare occasions when the 9th Company take to the field en masse, making full use of their access to support vehicles.

 

 

Despite being in the Close Support section, Attack Bike formations, in the basic Codex Space Marines, are described as being used as fire support. And the Blood Angels codex describes Attack Bike formations (created by detaching them from regular Bike Squads) as "nothing less than a fast-moving Devastator squad". 

 

 

So it makes sense to me that the 9th company, on occasions when they've got Bikes, Attack Bikes, or Speeders, and are deploying, led by their Captain (instead of consisting of 1 or 2 squads attached to a Battle Company), would use their stuff this way.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Iron Lord

[Xenith]

 

Yup.  I figure that all members of the  6th and 7th will be wearing red helmets, regardless of what they're actually riding in, and the 6th and 7th possess Land Speeders and Bikes.  

 

*snip*

So it makes sense to me that the 9th company, on occasions when they've got Bikes, Attack Bikes, or Speeders, and are deploying, led by their Captain (instead of consisting of 1 or 2 squads attached to a Battle Company), would use their stuff this way.

 

 

This is basically my stance on it also. The studio army is painted one specific way, for one specific company, however I'm having fun with army composition. Blue helmed typhoon speeders would be ace. 

 

EDIT: Another non-codex thought that @Panzer will hate ( ) is that while speeder crews are normally drawn from assault squads, BA also have a preference for assault squads being assault squads and marines from bttleline units being moved to maintain full strength assault squads, It stands to reason that they might, on occasion, use tactical marines as speeder or bike crews instead to maintain full assault squads. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Xenith

[Panzer]

I don't hate it, I just don't agree with that kind of interpretation. Of course everyone can paint their toy soldiers however they want though. ;) 

[Iron Lord]

IMO  the main reason red-helmeted speeders or blue-helmeted speeder pilots (as opposed to bike riders) will be very rare, is that, unlike bikes, speeders are very much in demand, in  universe.

 

As such, the Battle Companies, who need them much more, will get first crack at them (it's rare for a Reserve Company captain to take the field alongside everyone in his company that hasn't already been attached out as reinforcements).

 

 

Bikes, by contrast, are not particularly popular with the Blood Angels, and Assault Squad guys will vastly prefer to use jump packs instead. Thus it's plausible that a hefty proportion of  the ones the Chapter has, will be sitting at home in the armoury, ready for the Reserve Companies to requisition on the rare occasions that their Captains take the field.

[Spagunk]

My army is primarily 6th company. As a tactical company, their default helm color is red. I paint stripes to signify temporary deployment via bikes and jet packs.

 

No actual fluff justification, just my take.

[1s=heretical]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Has anyone tried yellow helm with black skull face? I'd be keen to see that variation.

I was thinking of trying that out. I really don't like how they look with the yellow/bone.

Yea, I think it would look ace

 

That said, I'm not opposed to this look:

 

 

I did end up painting some reivers with black face masks, I'll try and get some pictures up when they're finished. It doesn't look awful but it isn't great either. TBH I'm thinking I just don't like the yellow helmets.

[Iron Lord]

Reivers don't need yellow helmets if  they're  part of the 10th company, or the 1st Company.

 

1st Company Reivers could have gold helmets instead, and 10th Company Reivers (the "standing Vanguard force") are Vanguard rather than Close Support specifically - so wouldn't follow the colour-coded helmet system.

[Xenith]

Vanguard is just a catch all term like 'battle line company'. All fluff. A battle company is made up of BL, CS and FS squads. Reivers attached to the 10th would still have a CS role and yellow helmets. 

 

Helm schemes traditionally didnt apply to scouts as they didnt have helmets.  

[Iron Lord]

Vanguard is just a catch all term like 'battle line company'. All fluff. A battle company is made up of BL, CS and FS squads. 

 

The 10 Vanguard squads attached to the 10th Company are different - they are people who have finished the implantation process, but are not yet ready to take their place in the Reserve Companies. Think of them as like really senior Scouts. They are not a Battle Company. They are not a Reserve Company either.

 

 

 

As such, they will be learning all the Vanguard roles, and not pre-assigned to any particular combat role - be it Close Support, Fire Support, or Battleline - until they actually deploy.

 

When they deploy - they will be kitted out as their superiors want, depending on the situation - but they won't be "Close Support" or "Fire Support" squads, administratively, they'll just be "Vanguard Squads" - which is how the core Space Marines Codex lists them, as "10 Vanguard Squads". The Blood Angels Codex itself doesn't mention Primaris in the 10th Company at all - but Blood of Baal does, saying "Primaris Marines of the 10th Company fight as Vanguard Squads".

 

 

What will distinguish "The 10th Company Vanguard" from "Other Companies" is that they won't have the shoulderpad trim (for armies that use this) and that they will have the 10th Company symbol on their shoulderpad (for armies that use that).

 

 

Incursors are Close Support (so, ones in a Battle Company, or the 8th Reserve Company, would be expected to wear the yellow helmet). 

 

But in Blood of Baal, (page 43) a quote from a 10th Company Incursor,  comes with an illustration - and the illustrated Incursor wears the red helmet.

 

This, IMO, supports my contention that the 10th Company Primaris don't colour-code their helmets.

 

 

 while speeder crews are normally drawn from assault squads, BA also have a preference for assault squads being assault squads and marines from bttleline units being moved to maintain full strength assault squads, It stands to reason that they might, on occasion, use tactical marines as speeder or bike crews instead to maintain full assault squads. 

 

 

Traditionally they're drawn from  the Assault Squads, but anyone who's been through the relevant Reserve Companies will have the appropriate vehicle skills - so the Battle Company members, who always have done so, will have the full suite of skills.

 

As such, a point was specifically made, in the standard Space Marine Codex, that when a squad has to be "deployed incomplete" the remaining members, will find roles elsewhere - driving vehicles, especially.

 

The example given was of a 10 man Fire Support Squad, 6 of whom deploy as Aggressors - and the rest of whom either drive Rhinos or pilot Invictor Warsuits.

 

For a  non-Primaris example,  you could have 6 men out of a 10 man Devastator squad deploying in a Razorback.  Even if one of the remaining guys is piloting it - that still leaves 3 guys "spare" to find combat roles elsewhere.

 

 

Given that,  after the Guilliman reforms, it's highly likely that Battle Companies will  consist of a mix of  Primaris Marines and regular Marines, it's quite possible that all the Close Support Marines in a Battle Company will be Primaris. As such, the "Speeder Crew" will end up being drawn from "guys who fit into the seats".

 

 

Such as the remaining guys of a 10 man Devastator Squad, if a Devastator Squad is being "deployed incomplete" in a Razorback.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Iron Lord

[Panzer]

 

Vanguard is just a catch all term like 'battle line company'. All fluff. A battle company is made up of BL, CS and FS squads. 

 

The 10 Vanguard squads attached to the 10th Company are different - they are people who have finished the implantation process, but are not yet ready to take their place in the Reserve Companies. Think of them as like really senior Scouts. They are not a Battle Company. They are not a Reserve Company either.

 

That's wrong. They aren't "not yet ready". They are fully trained and won't leave the 10th to join another company ever. It's just that the 10th got extended to contain more than Marines in training. A Vanguard company is a proper fully trained company too, just with a different purpose than a Battlefield company or a Reserve company. 

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

Along the same line as this question, even though all the examples of BA tanks have the crew wearing red helmets, could there be a fluff justification for a tanker having a blue helmet? Say for example the gunner sticking out of the hatch firing a Stormbolter?

[Panzer]

Along the same line as this question, even though all the examples of BA tanks have the crew wearing red helmets, could there be a fluff justification for a tanker having a blue helmet? Say for example the gunner sticking out of the hatch firing a Stormbolter?

 

Yeah regular vehicles like Razorbacks, Invictor Warsuits etc. are driven by any Marine that's available in the company and not currently deployed together with their squad (because they are only deployed as half squad or whatever reason you can come up with). Or traditionally by Techmarines which wear Mars red armour.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Panzer