Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

[Kromlech/Tabletop Scenics] Astartes Movie Cooperation

Third party miniatures Kromlech Tabletop Scenics

  • Please log in to reply
1517 replies to this topic

#1501
Spinsanity

Spinsanity

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 832 posts
  • Location:Canadia

I'm not sure what folks are seeing as a IP violation - GW was told they weren't able to use the shape of pauldrons as an IP covered item, nor the concept of power(ed) armor, etc. Even some of their Chapter logos weren't able to be protected/claimed as they weren't unique enough or were historically used emblems.

Why don't we worry less about what legal action GW might take on this situation and leave that up to GW's attorneys to figure out - I'm sure there are more interesting things we could discuss about these items being available through Kromlech. Chances are if GW takes action, we'll hear about it swiftly.

 

Problem is, the Astartes creator specifically calls out Warhammer as being the inspiration behind his shorts, both in the videos themselves and on his YouTube and Patron pages. The fact that he would then turn around without Games Workshop's permission and let someone profit from their IP is bound to be problematic. We're way outside of the usual grey area Chapterhouse was in where they could claim it wasn't GW's universe, just one with similar visuals...


  • Irbis likes this

#1502
Bryan Blaire

Bryan Blaire

    ++ EXPLORATOR BIOLOGIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 7,857 posts
  • Faction: Imperium, Chaos, Xenos

Problem is, the Astartes creator specifically calls out Warhammer as being the inspiration behind his shorts, both in the videos themselves and on his YouTube and Patron pages. The fact that he would then turn around without Games Workshop's permission and let someone profit from their IP is bound to be problematic. We're way outside of the usual grey area Chapterhouse was in where they could claim it wasn't GW's universe, just one with similar visuals...

Except as long as it is all produced in a legal fashion, it doesn't matter in the slightest what the "inspiration" for something is - yes, seriously. As long as they don't use trademarked (or other IP covered) material for the sales (and the court in the U.S. has already stated that they can't claim basic shapes such as the shoulder pauldrons as trademarkable), the legal ground is shaky - a case must be made and agreed to by a judge to hear arguments.

It's not any different from an aftermarket light kit being sold that transforms an automobile light from a standard to LED set up, even with the official kit being sold by the manufacturer.

The Astartes creator already covered himself by doing the whole "fan-made" thing and specifying he intends no usurpation of claim by using trademarked items, etc. Kromlech is covered by not using any trademarked terms or material. There's very likely no "joint" infringement - you typically have to make cases against individual material infringers directly, or you have to be able to show some kind of conspiracy to mislead the consumer that something is official, etc. If the material being sold is not trademark covered, then there isn't a way to do that, because there's nothing saying "this is official product based on X trademarked item". Also, you typically have to bring the case in the jurisdiction that the infringement occurred in originally, not distribution points/destinations, so depending on how the IP laws work where it happened, you have to satisfy the elements of that jurisdiction for a hearing.

Seriously, if you guys feel so strongly that this is an issue, go report them to GW's attention via any means you might have - GW is the only entity that can determine if they want to pursue a case and would have legal standing in the situation - about the only thing that might be an issue is the specific use of the term Astartes (not sure if that specific term was called out as unenforceable - Astarte is a historical name, but not in conjunction with space-borne infantry, or if it is able to be enforced due to use to clearly refer to a specific type of "space Marine" - specific use/reference is often a key factor). All of us on the outside don't mean squat.

You are allowed to be inspired and create something derived from someone else's IP - and if things aren't trademarked or can't be trademarked, that can mean being able to sell parts that are identical to a manufacturer's parts.
  • Lexington, Volt, Panzer and 1 other like this
My DA Successor Chapter DIY - Stoneburners: Index Astartes Stoneburners; Images: Stoneburners WiP - DA Forum
Completed Squads: Stoneburners - Hall of Honor Forum
Drakeslayers, Bellicose Monster Hunters of the Fang: Drakeslayers - Space Wolves Forum
Other Material Here (Angels on both sides of the Long War): PCA WiP Forum
gallery_59244_7045_11084.jpggallery_59244_7045_3768.jpggallery_59244_7045_10256.jpg

#1503
Marshal Rohr

Marshal Rohr

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 17,678 posts
  • Location:Georgia
  • Faction: 7th Terran Regiment
They won’t be able to stop Kromlech but youtube will pull Astartes

Your opinion is important, and someone posting here probably does care what you think. You should go tell them. Remember that it really hurts to come up with an idea you care about and have no one else care. Go care about something and tell them what you think. Now. Think of what it would have meant to you when you were young.

 

+++The Iterators Guild+++

A Group for Lore Minded Hobbyists and World Building Projects

 


#1504
m0nolith

m0nolith

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,348 posts
  • Faction: IXth Legion: The Blood Angels

I seriously have to ask is anyone here a lawyer who actually practices IP law, because if anyone is lawyered up to holy hell its Kromlech.

When it comes to the creator of Astartes, I really don't think he didn't consult a lawyer about this and his work, especially given he has more than 7200 partons on Patreon. That's a lot of money he's getting every month and to risk screwing that up because of something like this is really not worth it, that is unless he figured out has some legal safety after consulting an actual lawyer. 

 

Look, like many here I 'feel" that this is bad news in the long run, but given the fact that I'm not an expert in this field, my feelings count for nothing here. I highly doubt that lawyers were not consulted here.


  • Felix Antipodes, calgar101, Dosjetka and 5 others like this

gallery_48988_10980_21879.png    gallery_86352_12089_20671.jpg

Instagram gallery_86352_14298_238.jpgm0nolithpainting


#1505
DuskRaider

DuskRaider

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 6,661 posts
  • Location:Albany, NY
  • Faction: Death Guard, 3rd Grand Company
Wow, with all of you on the case GW is SURE to come out on top 🙄.

In any case, interesting release from Kromlech. I'm sure the creator of Astartes is psyched, a company just made parts specifically for his custom Chapter.
  • calgar101 and Volt like this

Check out my Photobucket Here
 DuskRaider's 40K Nurgle: An Experiment in Flesh and Machine (House Makabius & Dark Mechanicum WIP currently)
 

 In Service of the Death Lord: DuskRaider's Adeptus Titanicus Project

 

 DuskRaider's 30K Word Bearers Force
 
 DuskRaider's 3rd Grand Company Death Guard Legion Force
 
To view my older threads, please go to the link HERE and download the add-on to view Photobucket linked images.


#1506
Dosjetka

Dosjetka

    ++ TUTATOR MONTEM ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 13,173 posts
  • Location:The Culinarium

=][= Threads merged.

 

Also, discussion on legal matters go beyond the limits set by the B&C's mission statement, so please keep such discussions to what is necessary and relevant to the topic at hand. =][=


Edited by Dosjetka, 08 April 2020 - 09:10 AM.

  • DuskRaider likes this

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

You carry the Emperor's will as your torch, with it destroy the shadows.


#1507
twopounder

twopounder

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,474 posts
  • Faction: Dark Angels

This is what irks me about GW. They seem to be operating like its the turn of the century and they still control demand for their own product. Yet, if they were forward thinking, they could have given the guy a license and cast their own shoulder pads, along with a spotlight on warhammer community. Very small investment that could have large returns by letting fan work drive demand. It would have even expanded the universe a bit to boot.


4bVlhOy.jpg

Massive 3D Printing Project - Working on the Whirlwind Scorpius

Ravenwing WIP - (57 Bikes and counting)

Full Battle Company - Lion's Blade including 14 Razorbacks

Shapeways - Like the models I make? Now you can get them too!


#1508
Black Blow Fly

Black Blow Fly

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 14,794 posts
  • Location:Unto realms immortal...
  • Faction: TODESKOMPANIE

Then everyone would demand the same.


=][= fortis Fortuna adiuvat . =][=
my 40k FB Page:
https://m.facebook.com/Terminus6Est
Terminus Est
Blood and Honor!

#1509
Bung

Bung

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 821 posts

Then everyone would demand the same.

Other Companies do that. Look at Corvus Belli they have some partners who can sell: Designed for Infinity. Just look for partners with good reputation.

#1510
grailkeeper

grailkeeper

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 649 posts
  • Location:Ireland
  • Faction: Vylka Fenrika
Im a lawyer although my knowledge of IP law is a little out of date.

Even if it is the case that legally GW dont have a foot to stand on, I could see them making life harder for fan works in the future. The new GW might see this as counter productive but who knows? The old one would have. Any moves GW takes to protect its IP, litigation or otherwise, may result in negative outcomes for the fans. I think this moves risks triggering such a response.

What I really wanted was for the astartes guy to work with GW in future, just like Helsreach creator Richard Boylan. This move ends that.

#1511
DeadFingers

DeadFingers

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,429 posts

What I really wanted was for the astartes guy to work with GW in future, just like Helsreach creator Richard Boylan. This move ends that.

Without getting into all the legal stuff, I doubt he's interested in working directly for GW. He probably earns more through his Patreon and job doing what he wants than what GW would offer him to do what they want.


  • Black Blow Fly, Noserenda and Volt like this

#1512
Elzender

Elzender

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,174 posts
  • Location:Barcelona
From some comments I've read around (so take this with quite a bit of salt), the author has a good position elsewhere, so it would seem he might not be interested in getting directly involved with GW.

Edited by Elzender, 08 April 2020 - 08:11 PM.

My blog (in Spanish): http://suenosdeuncon...logspot.com.es/

 

ETL_2016_Banner_03_Custos_Fidei01.jpggallery_48988_10069_73849.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


#1513
Apothecary Vaddon

Apothecary Vaddon

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,310 posts
  • Location:Washington State, US
  • Faction: n/a, don't do TT

From his patreon alone he's earning far north of $14k usd a month since part 5 released. I'm like, 99.999999% sure he earns more from that, let alone any freelance modelling jobs he's been taking, than what GW would ever pay him.


Edited by Apothecary Vaddon, 08 April 2020 - 08:28 PM.


#1514
calgar101

calgar101

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,350 posts
Yeah apparently GW made him an offer it just wasn't worth it for him. Hopefully from this GW will put more effort in their animation game.


#1515
Black Blow Fly

Black Blow Fly

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 14,794 posts
  • Location:Unto realms immortal...
  • Faction: TODESKOMPANIE

So I’m guessing he’s not upset then... all’s well that ends well.


=][= fortis Fortuna adiuvat . =][=
my 40k FB Page:
https://m.facebook.com/Terminus6Est
Terminus Est
Blood and Honor!

#1516
Volt

Volt

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,091 posts
  • Location:CA, USA
  • Faction: Anges de Vindication

Considering the maker of Astartes was a Kiwi, I wouldn't be surprised if he was a freelancer for Weta Workshop at times. Hell I'm pretty certain I've read something along those lines of him being a Weta Workshop freelancer before. It'd certainly match his technical expertise.


+Quod vult valde vult+


#1517
Kain Mor

Kain Mor

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 423 posts
  • Location:Denver, CO
  • Faction: Astra Militarum, Night Lords
Legal issues aside, I’m a little disappointed that these bits are being made by kromlech. I’ve never been a fan of their sculpting style, it all feels clunky and primitive in my opinion.
  • Aarik likes this

#1518
Bung

Bung

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 821 posts

Legal issues aside, I’m a little disappointed that these bits are being made by kromlech. I’ve never been a fan of their sculpting style, it all feels clunky and primitive in my opinion.


Which makes it perfect fir old marines.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Third party miniatures, Kromlech, Tabletop Scenics

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users