Consequences (PA short story - SPOILER discussion)

[Marshal Loss]

The story

Edited April 22, 2020 by Kelborn
title adapted

[Petitioner's City]

Well that's a stupid reaction, but one that's also so depressingly human. It reminda me of finding out where the renegades came from in the Ahriman trilogy, that Asteros and his chapter were damned without real investigation or (apologies) inquistion. You would just hope that Custodes would not be as blinkered as the Inquisition.....

[Marshal Loss]

For those who haven't read it yet: a fleet bringing Primaris reinforcements finds out that the chapter they are there to give the Primaris (Brazen Drakes) to has been declared traitor. Custodes demand that the fleet surrender, Primaris refuse. Custodian fires first and the Primaris fight back. It doesn't go well for the Greyshields but as of the end there are reports of fighting across the fleet so it's impossible to say whether they're all going to die off-screen and this is just a random plot point or whether it actually means something for the future.

[Biscuittzz]

For all their super-human and super intellect that they're supposed to possess, Custodes constantly come across as dimwitted. 

[armarnis]

The story

 

oof, i felt that was a terrible show. im somewhat tired of everyone obeying the holy inquisition that blindly. my money is on someone bought the cakeroll some backwater inquisitor wanted for breakfast and now to set the wrong right he declared them traitoris extremis

Edited April 20, 2020 by armarnis

[MrBadweed]

I'm all for chaos primaris, but this isjust so hamfisted and well ... bad.

 

I mean the greyshields have, at this point, no link whatsoever with the chapter, nothing, and the custodes go full on derp on them. It's nonsensical to me.

[Panzer]

For all their super-human and super intellect that they're supposed to possess, Custodes constantly come across as dimwitted. 

 

That's the problem with writing about some superhumanly intelligent being while only being a regular human yourself.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Panzer

[Doghouse]

Not sure what to make of that to be honest.

 

On the one hand it shows the Imperium doesn't take the slightest chance with the possibility of an Astartes Chapter going rogue but because there is no real connection between the Greyshield reinforcements and the renegade Chapter other than them being assigned to them it felt off to me. If there was mention the Greyshields shared the geneseed then yeah I'd be on board with that. 

 

It works as a story and doesn't work for me. They're not really traitors or renegades other than by association which doesn't make sense as a reader because they are still being refered to as Greyshields right up to the first shots being fired but kinda does makes knowing how insane and over the top the Imperium is.

 

It works but I'm not convinced that isn't accidental. It feels like I'm trying to justify something that doesn't make sense.

 

Feels like a "look how amazing Custodes are" excercise to me.

[OrkPlayer137]

The story does mention geneseed (written as gene-seed, in the conversation between Tyvar and Gerion, about 2/3 of the way through), although my recollection from the Dark Imperium novel was that Grey Shields generally had only first founding geneseed and were then assigned to the appropriate successor chapter. However, perhaps I remembered wrongly, or maybe chapter-specific geneseed from other foundings was used for some later Grey Shields intended as reinforcements for specific chapters?

[Chapter Master Valrak]

That story was so stupid, really.

[Panzer]

I'm all for chaos primaris, but this isjust so hamfisted and well ... bad.

 

I mean the greyshields have, at this point, no link whatsoever with the chapter, nothing, and the custodes go full on derp on them. It's nonsensical to me.

 

If that's the norm of how things get handled in the Imperium, I'm not surprised that there are so many traitors. :D 

[Dark Shepherd]

Yeah the story pretty much pours cold water on chaos primaris

 

I liked the story and they hyped it well IMO

[Subtleknife]

Seems a bit clumsy the whole plot. Also, how do sisters of silence always seem to go toe to toe with astartes? Arent they just human. Always seems a bit odd to me.

[calgar101]

Story seems a bit shoe horned and poorly written. The only way to reconcile and make sense of it is to know that Custodes do not trust Astartes at all. Custodes expect Space Marines to turn traitor at any given moment.

[Robbienw]

They must have had specific geneseed from the Brazen Drakes tithe from the Terran vaults.  The Shield Captains words imply they are directly linked.

 

‘The heretical gene-seed within your bodies is its own condemnation,’ Tyvar replied.

 

Its possible their specifc geneseed may have developed mutations that contributed to their corruption, so better to be safe than sorry with the Primaris chaps even though they have never met the rest of the Chapter.  They are of the same gene line.

 

Specific chapters do have their own mutation in their spefic geneseed, seperate from their orginal legion descent.  Like the Death Spectres for example, who have some variation in mutation compared to the Raven Guard.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Robbienw

[Darkwrath121]

Seems a bit clumsy the whole plot. Also, how do sisters of silence always seem to go toe to toe with astartes? Arent they just human. Always seems a bit odd to me.

They're heavily indoctrinated beyond even Crusade-era astartes, and their armour and training/chem-therapies are designed to boost their speed and reflexes greatly. (HH: Inferno) Edited April 20, 2020 by Darkwrath121

[Biscuittzz]

Actually, when you really think about it the entire premise is terrible and ill-thought out. If they're grey shields then their gene-seed comes from one of the 9 Loyalist legions, and this is what the Shield Captain says condemns them to heresy. The record of gene-seed is probably well known so are the custodes going to go after the heretic 1st Founding Chapter?

 

I can get behind the idea of primaris going renegade but they've practically walked all over the lore they just recently established. 

 

Edit: If the gene-seed comes from the Brazen Drakes tithe on Terra, then they wouldn't be greyshields, they'd be Brazen Drakes? I'm assuming the author doesn't know the difference. But this is to be expected the studio's lore writing.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Biscuittzz

[Doghouse]

The story does mention geneseed (written as gene-seed, in the conversation between Tyvar and Gerion, about 2/3 of the way through), although my recollection from the Dark Imperium novel was that Grey Shields generally had only first founding geneseed and were then assigned to the appropriate successor chapter. However, perhaps I remembered wrongly, or maybe chapter-specific geneseed from other foundings was used for some later Grey Shields intended as reinforcements for specific chapters?

 

Yeah you're right, "The heretical gene-seed within your bodies is its own condemnation," and I also thought Greyshields used the first Founding Legion geneseed as well.

[Biscuittzz]

As far as I know greyshield gene-seed is only from the 9 loyalist legions. Meaning the Shield Captain also condemns whatever Chapter it came from? As i said it's terribly written.

[Panzer]

Even if the geneseed were from the Brazen Drakes themselves, Cawl explicitly made clear that he has cleaned the Primaris geneseed of any mutation that wasn't very obviously in there by design of the Emperor (aka the Blood Angels' Red Thirst etc). He even went so far to tell Guilliman that there isn't any sign of corruption on a genetical level within the traitor legion's geneseed.

[Frater Antodeniel]

I think that the Short Story "Consequences" is a good depiction of the different characters reaction to the situation, notably given what is known, i explain :

 

- The Shield Captain reaction is a good portrayal of the latent mistrust and hatred the Custodians have towards the Adeptus Astartes. The fact that he refuse to aknowledge the Primaris Captain arguments or even want to hear of it can be seen as a typical reaction of the Custodians towards the Astartes. It also explain why despite being highly intelligent, the Custodian choose a way that he may know to lead to infighting in the end. His mental conditionning and his distrust of the Astartes do not allow him to try to understand the situation at hand. In his regard, all Astartes are potential traitors that he may need to deal with.

 

Also, as to why the Custodian trust the Inquisition judgement...well, not only like i said he do not trust the Adeptus Astartes, but also, i can be considered that the Custodians as a whole may consider the Inquisition as a solid institution, one that they can trust to some extand. Since they never had to deal that much with what is outside Terra, they may not know that the Inquisition is not always to be trusted in its judgement, in a way, one can say that the Custodians may be a little "naives" in regard of the Inquisition. I wouldn't be surprised that some Custodians may discovers for the first time how the life really is in the Imperium, a fact that can be summary in a single sentence, "You don't know what it is to live outside the walls".

 

- The Primaris Captain for his part, act like a good willing Captain of the Adeptus Astartes, he cares about his chapter and his brothers. He is shocked at the accusation of treachery that the Custodian profess against him and his still loyalist brothers, and thus is in the end forced to a choice. Note that he do not betray the Emperor, as he even express in his final words his faith by crying, "Emperor, no".

 

- The Sisters of Silence on their parts sides automatically with the Custodians, as it can be expected, yet the Sister of Silence leader do express her silent opinion of the situation, though it appears to be alligned with that of the Custodian, it still diverges as it does not appear to carry the Custodian hatred toward the Adeptus Astartes.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

I was thinking that the Flames of Aries reinforcements had already taken on their chapter's uniforms and name well before they made contact, unlike the Primaris in this story still being Greyshields.

 

And if the gene-seed for Primaris is taken from First Founding chapters, then that makes the Blood Ravens story about their Primaris reinforcements even more problematic. It was bad enough to think that Mars even had access to specific Blood Raven geneseed and that no one there either bothered to evaluate their geneseed to find out their true origins or was unable to do so. But either way, it was definitely Blood Raven geneseed they brought, not geneseed from a First Founding chapter as the end of that story had the Blood Ravens evaluating that geneseed themselves in order to try to discover their own origins. If it was geneseed from a First Founding chapter, there'd have been no mystery.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Well, that was exactly what I've come to expect from modern GW fluff writing. Nonsensical garbage.

 

Is there any fluff where Custodes aren't colossal s? They make the Great Crusade era EC look reserved, reasonable and humble. Also they're just idiots in this story. They don't know that there's anything wrong on Khassedur until they're in system. But the Shield-Captain just googles 'Brazen Drakes' to find out the Chapter has been declared Hereticus Diabolus Extremis. How? Why does he (or the writer) not give a better justification for such a stupid, knee jerk reaction. Surely the Custodes know that the Inquistion is far from infallible. Not to mention we know that Chapters have been branded traitors falsely in the past (Abyssal Crusade). Hell, even the Astral Claws weren't dealt with that summarily (they at least got a collective trial before execution after the Badab War, and they were actually guilty, unlike these Primaris). So either the Custodes is a gung ho idiot looking to kill Space Marines with any justification (which is a bad look for the supposed 'best of the best' Custodes). Or the author did a terrible job showing that he had good reason for such extreme action.

[Brother Casman]

That Shield-Captain certainly sees things in black and white, doesn't he? He obviously doesn't trust the Adeptus Astartes at all (mind you, he probably has a fuller understanding of what happened during the Horus Heresy than most people in the Era Indomitus).

 

I suspect that these reinforcements for the Brazen Drakes are drawn from their gene-seed tithe, and are only referred to as Greyshields since they haven't been delivered to their homeworld/chapter yet. I certainly don't think that Cawl necessarily had a direct hand in preparing the gene-seed for all chapters at this point - while he worked on the original 9 Legions, I would think that other Magos would have been brought into the process to upgrade the later foundings (which introduces chances for errors, of course).

[Noserenda]

Typical of two super hyped "alpha" types not being able to see the others point of view there causing trouble, The Custode overreacted (Which is fairly typical at least) but i suspect the Primaris would have been fine once the facts get looked over, Grey shields should be using base Ultramarine (statistically) geneseed rather than any specific chapters, just based on what they started with unless Cawl could secretly steal more which seems unlikely and we know its some geneseed mutation (probably) that made the parent chapter turn.

Eh, its stupid but its grimdark ;)