Consequences (PA short story - SPOILER discussion)

[b1soul]

"No, he's 'supposed' to ask nicely the first time. Because that's how you diffuse (or just don't crate in the first place) tense situations. Once again, the issue isn't 'the Imperium should be nice' or 'if you don't like this story you don't understand 40k' or anything like that."

 

Throne, I hope that accusation hasn't been thrown around. It's more like if you're cheerleading this depiction of Custodes, you're really selling them short

 

"The core issue remains that the fluff claims Custodes are these enlightened (by Imperial standards, obviously) polymath super-superhuman geniuses, with specific training in diplomacy. But this story gives us a command level Custodes who acts more like a parody of a Commissar."

 

Well said. There can be personality variation among the Custodes (maybe certain forms of resentment built on past experience), but that probably should have been addressed via a longer story.

[Scribe]

Yes, a longer story would have likely helped some of you get over the fact that a Custode expects obedience. Immediate, and absolute.

 

You honestly think that every single custode is a paragon of diplomacy?

 

But it's somehow a leap too far to expect Astartes to follow orders?

[Ishagu]

Do you think every single Custodes is good at hand to hand combat?

 

Also we're talking about an individual in a leadership position, someone who should be even more capable than normal.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Ishagu

[Robbienw]

Do you think every single Custodes is good at hand to hand combat?

 

Yes.

[Ishagu]

It was a rhetorical question. Just as every Custodes is a capable warrior, each one is also a cultured scholar.

 

The training and meticulous education go hand in hand.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Ishagu

[Phoebus]

Yes, a longer story would have likely helped some of you get over the fact that a Custode expects obedience. Immediate, and absolute.

 

You honestly think that every single custode is a paragon of diplomacy?

 

But it's somehow a leap too far to expect Astartes to follow orders?

With respect, that’s unnecessarily reductive.

 

To answer your first question, I expect Custodians to be depicted in a manner consistent with “highly intelligent,” “functionally immortal” beings that have had “endless opportunity to perfect their skills, further their education across every lore and discipline,” and as a result have been able to master “countless ... subjects,” diplomacy and statecraft among them, “to a breathtakingly high degree.”

 

No, I don’t expect a Custodian to “[suffer any] impediment to [his] mission – be it the machinations of the foe or the ... ignorance ... of their allies.” I do, however, expect someone with the “judgment and strategic skill” required of a Shield-Captain, and who trains to such an extent as to “be ready for every eventuality,” to have a better plan for the situation shown in this short story than Tyvar’s.

 

When a character acts in a manner that doesn’t take into consideration the above traits and abilities, as was the case with Tyvar, I expect the author to provide context that explains why that was.

 

I understand that inconsistencies and outright contradictions are an almost inseparable part of the setting, and that this means not every author will deliver to me the same Custodian. Nonetheless, I don’t think me (or anyone else) being disappointed by a Custodian that falls well short of the expectations set by the core material is a result of failing to understand or get over anything.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Phoebus

[jaxom]

I understand that inconsistencies and outright contradictions are an almost inseparable part of the setting, and that this means not every author will deliver to me the same Custodian. Nonetheless, I don’t think me (or anyone else) being disappointed by a Custodian that falls well short of the expectations set by the core material is a result of failing to understand or get over anything.

Well said! I think this summarized the key point of discussion (disagreement?) over the past few pages. Different readers had different expectations of Custodes behavior and it tinted how the story was viewed.

[Scribe]

I can agree with there being flaws or gaps in the story.

 

The author (based on his twitter) was looking at another Short, but from what I can see makes 0 effort to tie his story to it explicitly.

 

Ones tolerance or expectations for an individual's actions will differ between all of us.

 

I agree that it could be a better blurb, but honestly these are micro shorts.

 

I don't look at the Custodians any differently.

[Shield-Captain]

This one instance of a Custode acting maybe out of character but not that far out of character. I mean there are stories about loyalist Space Marines with necrodermis arms and what-not. It's an author's take on an unfortunate and rather tragic circumstance. It doesn't violate any fluff other than maybe an individual's headcanon and that is not the same as the IP. Like it or not, they are the authority on the matter. This isn't a fanfic: it was no doubt vetted by someone who said "yup, this works." and then published. Whether or not it is to your specific taste isn't really an issue. Am I in love with Tyvar's depiction? No. Am I going to rage and throw my Custodes army out? Also no.

 

40k is less a story than a setting that has a vague and contradictory overarching narrative. This has always been the nature of the beast and suddenly, a bunch of people are lore experts and saying silly things, making generalizations. It's like reading the Oubliette and assuming all imperial governors are beholden to a

Dark Eldar Mandrake

. One instance. It is by no means a rule.