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The aftermath of the Destruction of Caliban

Successors Cypher

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#1
Angel of Solitude

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During this lockdown period, I've been immersing myself somewhat into the lore of the 1st Legion. It started off with a simple question - who are the current Company Masters? - but has now evolved into something a bit deeper: what happened immediately after the Destruction of Caliban, how was the Legion split in line with the Codex, and who were the key indidviduals involved?
 
During my "research", I've also potentially uncovered a possible identity for Cypher...more on that later!
 
But first, what happened immediately after the Destruction of Caliban. The codexes essentially tell the following:
 

Internalising their grief, the Dark Angels pulled together, their Masters forming a plan of action. They were still the Sons of the Lion - tenacious warriors who, once stirred to action, were never short of zeal. 'In a way, the Dark Angels were born again, single-mindedly rededicating their lives to the service of the Imperium.

They decided the true story of treachery behind the destruction of Cali ban must remain secret; no outsider must learn of the schism that split their Legion, or that any Dark Angels had ever turned to the Ruinous Powers. Should the truth be revealed, the Dark Angels would be labelled Excommunicate Traitoris and never given a chance to redeem themselves. The senior members of the Legion formed a secret conclave- an Inner Circle of the Legion's Masters. They created an overlapping system to watch over their own Brothers, and also themselves. Everyone must be scrutinised for signs of corruption. Thus started a spiral of mistrust and secrecy that continues to this day.

 

 

Based on the events of Dreadwing and Ruinstorm, at this point I would speculate that the "Legion Masters" would be the 6 Hexagrammaton Voted-Liuetenants, as they appear to serve more as the Lion's council than any of the Chapter Masters. Dreadwing identifies these Masters and their voted successors (pre-Destruction of Caliban) as follows:

  • Deathwing - Holguin, Carorlingus
  • Ravenwing - Aloceri
  • Ironwing - Venerable Titus
  • Dreadwing - Redloss, Danaeus, Gawain
  • Stormwing - Calloson
  • Firewing - Vastael

 

Also likely to be included is a representation from the Librarius - mirroring the 40k Inner Circle structure.

 

Again, based on the events of Dreadwing we know there is a deep level of mistrust between the Voted-Lieutenants - notably the Dreadwing and Deathwing. It would thus make sense that they would mutually agree to an "overlapping system" of Legion command. At this point, the Legion is making every effort to keep secret all of the events that took place on Caliban. This would lend itself to a certain amount of focus, allowing tensions to be set aside.

 

The next event to happen is the discovery of the existence of the Fallen. Quoting from the codex:

 

The Grand Masters of the nascent Inner Circle swore that so long as even one of the Fallen remained alive and unrepentant, the Dark Angels would be Unforgiven, cursed by their brothers to atone for all eternity.

 

 

The suggestion here is that the Inner Circle remains united. I would speculate that this actually re-opens the old tensions: the Inner Circle are now faced with the possibility of their secret being discovered, and there is disagreement between the Inner Circle on how to proceed. This is based on the distinct differences that we see in the attitudes of Holguin (Deathwing) and Redloss (Dreadwing) during Dreadwing. It is also based on what we currently know about the Second Founding chapters.

 

The Dark Angels acquiesced to the order to split, as doing otherwise would raise suspicion at a time when they could ill afford any scrutiny. From their Legion, they sired the Angels of Absolution, the Angels of Redemption and the Angels of Vengeance, each new Chapter led by its own Grand Master.

 

 

At this point we have 4 1st Legion successor chapters...but 6 "Wings". There are some interesting points to note here:

  1. All of the chapters appear to have adopted the Deathwing/Ravenwing organisation;
  2. At the point of Dreadwing, Aloceri - the Ravenwing Voted-Lieutenant - was a direct choice of Holguin.

Why is this important? In my mind, it indicates that Holguin's camp prevailed over Redloss's camp, with Holguin's influence prevailing over the adoption of the Codex Astartes and the splitting of the Legion into chapters.

 

Here comes the controversion bit: at this point, Redloss's camp split from the Legion, unbeknownst to the Imperium.

 

(For clarity, at this point it may be that Holguin/Redless et al have since died, but their allegiences are maintained by their successors).

 

What is the evidence for this?

  1. The previously identified dominance of Deathwing/Ravenwing structure in the successor chapters;
  2. The lack of identifiable Dreadwing operating protocols in any of the successors;
  3. The Star Phantoms;
  4. The potential identity of Cypher.

Point (1) we have covered above.

Point (2) could be due to adoption of the Codex Astartes and use of such weapons being outlawed.

 

Point (3) is an interesting one. Supposedly, the Star Phantoms are a 23rd Founding chapter...who happen to share the same heraldry of the Dreadwing, exhibit behaviours similar to that of the Dark Angels, and have a penchant for non-traditional weapons such as plasma and melta. Oh and when you ask them (and the Dark Angels too), they "vehemently deny" any association to the Dark Angels. Oh no, absolutely not! Which is the sort of thing that you might say if you've had a really big falling out, resulting in an ideological split.

 

The speculation here then, is that at the Second Founding the Dreadwing completely split from the imperium, either staying low for some 8,000 years or perhaps being stuck in the Warp during that time...at which point they re-emerge and manage to convince the Imperium that they're a 23rd founding chapter. What have they been doing during this time? Perhaps they are on their own redemption path, split from the Imperium to wage war against the Fallen without any restriction.

 

At this point, it's worth noting the difference between Holguin and Redless. From Dreadwing:

 

Redloss: "We are th Angels of Death...For the Lion and Caliban, we destroy everything."

Holguin: "Loyalty and honour, my brothers! For the Throne!"

 

I appreciate it's only a single batte cry, but I believe this gives rise to the possibility of the Deathwing camp wanting to remain within the Imperium (and thus abide by all of the different restrictions) in their pursuit of the The Fallen, while the Dreadwing camp want to instead split from the Imperiu and hunt The Fallen unbound, as they are used to doing.

 

Now on to point (4). Within Dreadwing is this very brief mention:
 

 

'Kastael,' greeted Danaeus, his paired bolt pistols aimed at the palidin's chest.

 

 

Admittedly they're both bolt pistols, but this is an interesting reference. More so given that Danaeus is one of Redloss's voted successors.

 

The things we know about Cypher is that he is on some unknown quest, heading towards Terra. Whether it's to kill the Emperor, or to seek redemption is unknown. However, we do know that he is essentially his own man; he will align with other Fallen / Chaos agents when the need arises, but he will also provide support to Imperium factions - including the Dark Angels themselves. We also know from the early lore that nobody knows the true identify of Cypher. Given the existence of two voted successors - Gawain being the other - it is not inconceivable that Danaeus is appointed the role of Lord Cypher immediately after the Destruction of Caliban.

 

If we follow the assumption of the Dreadwing completely splitting from both the Dark Angels and the Imperium, then we can see why Cypher would become the "neutral" agent that he is. Exactly what his mission is is an answer I still do not have. But I am hoping that whenever Black Library tackles the Destruction of Caliban and the 2nd Founding, then we may get answers to some of these questions.

 

Anyway, that's all I have. I hope you enjoyed reading, and would welcome your thoughts / challenges / additional references.

 

 

 

 


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#2
TheWeepingAngel

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There’s some really cool ideas here, some of which align with some thoughts and ponderings I’ve had about the early days of the Dark Angels post-Caliban. I want to do a lengthier response when I’ve got time, but for now just wanted to acknowledge the creative thought - nice!

I'm now also on Instagram: @wrath_of_bruinen


#3
G8Keeper

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Counter to the Dreadwing leaving the legion:

 

I think with the scrutiny already upon the legion the newly created Inner Circle struggled with how to proceed with the hexagrammaton and if not before, actively suppressed the more controversial elements with the creation of the codex astartes and the second founding.  This suppression would definitely have included the Dreadwing and perhaps the newly tasked hunt for the fallen was better served by reducing completely down to just the Deatwing and Ravenwing. 

 

The Star Phantoms were created some 7000 years after the heresy and the assumed removal of most of the hexagrammaton, perhaps the High Lords or whoever assigns chapter heraldry simply stumbled across some old iconography? Weak I know :) but possible.

 

 What intrigues me now is the explosion in founding of new chapters using the 1st legion's gene-seed as a potential counter to Guilliman.  Is it on his say so, or is it at the behest of the High Lords? Something we'll probably never know.


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#4
Robbienw

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The 1st Company of the Angels of Vengeance is known as the Dreadwing, they were most probably founded by Dreadwing members.


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#5
Angel of Solitude

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Counter to the Dreadwing leaving the legion:

 

I think with the scrutiny already upon the legion the newly created Inner Circle struggled with how to proceed with the hexagrammaton and if not before, actively suppressed the more controversial elements with the creation of the codex astartes and the second founding.  This suppression would definitely have included the Dreadwing and perhaps the newly tasked hunt for the fallen was better served by reducing completely down to just the Deatwing and Ravenwing. 

 

The Star Phantoms were created some 7000 years after the heresy and the assumed removal of most of the hexagrammaton, perhaps the High Lords or whoever assigns chapter heraldry simply stumbled across some old iconography? Weak I know smile.png but possible.

 

 What intrigues me now is the explosion in founding of new chapters using the 1st legion's gene-seed as a potential counter to Guilliman.  Is it on his say so, or is it at the behest of the High Lords? Something we'll probably never know.

 

I certainly think that the requirements of the Codex Astartes (combined with Guilliman's first hand experience of the Dreadwing) will have necessitated the suppression of Dreadwing elements within the Chapter organisation. As you say, the unique specialities of the Deathwing and Ravenwing lend themselves well to the Hunt, which would result in the Fire, Storm and Ironwings being consolidated into the 3rd-9th Companies.

 

However, I do think the characters of the Dreadwing members means that they would not willingly accept this proposal. My quote from Redloss above suggests he's ambivalent towards the Imperium and is extremely passionate towards the "art" of the Dreadwing; I believe he (or his Voted Successors) would chose to split in this instance, rather than to become subordinate to Holguin and the Deathwing.

 

Regarding the Star Phantoms...it's possible. We know that the Dark Angels are the first legion, and the Hexagrammaton is a Terra-thing rather than a Caliban organisation, so it's possible that the individual wing heraldry has origins on Terra, and is thus in the archives somewhere.  But that theory's not nearly as dramatic as renegade Dreadwing companies being lost in the warp for 7,000 years :D

 

The 1st Legion geneseed comment...am I correct in thinking that is in relation to Cawl and the Primaris? Guilliman certainly has a very powerful position, given the large number of Ultramarine successors that are to all intents and purposes under his command - despite the Codex Astartes suggesting otherwise. I believe the High Lords have always known of the "informal" existence of the 1st Legion, but have been powerless to do anything about it. Their actions have continually demonstrated them as loyal, and their geneseed is known to be incredibly stable. However, with the resurgence of the Ultramarines, the High Lords no doubt see the close relationship of the 1st Legion as a very useful contingency plan should things go awry with Guilliman.

 

The 1st Company of the Angels of Vengeance is known as the Dreadwing, they were most probably founded by Dreadwing members.

 

This is an entirely valid possibility. I see two options:

1. There is no rift as per my theory, the incumbent Dreadbringer becomes Chapter Master of the Angels of Vengeance, and names the 1st Company in honour of the Dreadwing.

2. There is a rift, but not all members of the Dreadwing split. One part remains, with the senior "loyal" brother becoming Chapter Master. The 1st Company is then called the "Dreadwing" to create the impression that Everything Is Fine.

 

Equally, the 2nd Company is called the Raptorwing, and this lore is new to the 8th Edition Codex, so it could just be GW doing a bit of misdirection...


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#6
jaxom

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There's a lot to go through here (which is awesome) so I apologize for not using fancy quotations which tag person and time.

 

 

 

Based on the events of Dreadwing and Ruinstorm, at this point I would speculate that the "Legion Masters" would be the 6 Hexagrammaton Voted-Liuetenants, as they appear to serve more as the Lion's council than any of the Chapter Masters. 

 

This may not be the best idea. The codex has been repeated that information since well before the Hexagrammaton was an idea. Master, however, has universally referred to Praetorian levels of command; (Grand) Master of an Order and occasionally Chapter Master. It is possible it will eventually be revealed that the Hexagrammaton had more of a role in the splintering of the Legion, but just from what we currently have I think it's the normal command structure being referred to here.

 

In many ways, this is what makes any current analysis of what happens after Caliban's fall hard to work with at the moment. All currently existing information was written before (or depends on such writing) the Horus Heresy novels and the Hexagrammaton concept.

 

 

 

At this point we have 4 1st Legion successor chapters...but 6 "Wings".

 

The number of successors usually depended on the number of survivors at the time of the Second Founding. 

 

 

 

  1. The previously identified dominance of Deathwing/Ravenwing structure in the successor chapters 

 

If one were looking to circle the square, it could be a case of four Chapters for four Wings and then distributing the Deathwing and Ravenwing among them.

 

 

 

  1. The previously identified dominance of Deathwing/Ravenwing structure in the successor chapters;
  2. The lack of identifiable Dreadwing operating protocols in any of the successors;
  3. The Star Phantoms;

 

I'm going to tackle the Star Phantoms first. In-universe, unrelated Chapters share insignia and names across the history of the  history of the Imperium; it could be coincidence. Out-of-universe, the Star Phantoms existed prior to the Dreadwing. They were primarily a Forge World Chapter so it's possible when Blighe was working on the Horus Heresy material he either meant for them to be connected to the Dreadwing or just thought the symbol looked cool and made sense for an organization like the Dreadwing.

 

A lack of Dreadwing protocol is not evident as it's just a campaign of annihilation and Space Marine Chapters still do those. The difference is the same across all the First Founding and Second Founding Chapters - no one has the resources of a Legion to carry out such campaigns in the same manner that they used to do so (unless one counts orbital bombardment, but I'm sticking with boots on the ground annihilation).

 

 

 

If we follow the assumption of the Dreadwing completely splitting from both the Dark Angels and the Imperium, then we can see why Cypher would become the "neutral" agent that he is. Exactly what his mission is is an answer I still do not have. But I am hoping that whenever Black Library tackles the Destruction of Caliban and the 2nd Founding, then we may get answers to some of these questions.

Legacy of Caliban spoilers

Spoiler

 

 

 

I think with the scrutiny already upon the legion the newly created Inner Circle struggled with how to proceed with the hexagrammaton and if not before, actively suppressed the more controversial elements with the creation of the codex astartes and the second founding.  This suppression would definitely have included the Dreadwing and perhaps the newly tasked hunt for the fallen was better served by reducing completely down to just the Deatwing and Ravenwing. 

 

The splintering of the Legion took place before Inner Circle knew any Fallen had survived the destruction of Caliban. What we do know is that the Inner Circle actively altered indoctrination and education of initiates to conceal the truth of the Legion. The Hexagrammaton was based on Teacher-Student pairs and encouraged outside-rank communication, conversation, and questioning. Such things would be a massive hazard to maintaining control of the Chapter's narrative of what occurred.

 

 

 

I certainly think that the requirements of the Codex Astartes (combined with Guilliman's first hand experience of the Dreadwing) will have necessitated the suppression of Dreadwing elements within the Chapter organisation. As you say, the unique specialities of the Deathwing and Ravenwing lend themselves well to the Hunt, which would result in the Fire, Storm and Ironwings being consolidated into the 3rd-9th Companies.

The funny thing is that even the Deathwing and Ravenwing were technically Codex compliant according to earlier sources. The Codex was noted to require a company which focused on bikes and landspeeders and for most Chapters this was a reserve company. However, there was nothing indicating it had to be a reserve company. The Deathing being all in Terminator armour was a riches of equipment, but the were still made up as the Chapter's veterans and there was nothing to say they ever had to deploy in power armour. 

 

I hadn't previously thought about it, but matching the Stormwing into the Assault Company makes a lot of sense. I don't know if the Ironwing would be the chapter armouries (tanks) or if they also had heavy weapon squads.

 

 

The 1st Legion geneseed comment...am I correct in thinking that is in relation to Cawl and the Primaris? Guilliman certainly has a very powerful position, given the large number of Ultramarine successors that are to all intents and purposes under his command - despite the Codex Astartes suggesting otherwise.

 

The Ultima Founding/reveal of the Primaris included a lot of Primaris Space Marines from all the loyalist gene-lines, including the First Legion. What makes this special is that it's the first time in Imperial history since the Second Founding that a large influx of new Marines and Chapters are explicitly from that gene-line. See the next comment for more details.

 

 

 

 I believe the High Lords have always known of the "informal" existence of the 1st Legion, but have been powerless to do anything about it. Their actions have continually demonstrated them as loyal, and their geneseed is known to be incredibly stable. However, with the resurgence of the Ultramarines, the High Lords no doubt see the close relationship of the 1st Legion as a very useful contingency plan should things go awry with Guilliman.

It's the continued loyalty and gene-seed stability which makes not having recorded High Lord sanctioned foundings stand out. The key thing to remember is that the Ultima Founding wasn't the High Lords doing, it was Guilliman's. There's little that I'm aware of to indicate the High Lords know anything about the Lion's role in keeping Guilliman in check or that the High Lords would go for Dark Angel successors over more of whatever the Minotaurs are.

 

 

This is an entirely valid possibility. I see two options:

1. There is no rift as per my theory, the incumbent Dreadbringer becomes Chapter Master of the Angels of Vengeance, and names the 1st Company in honour of the Dreadwing.

2. There is a rift, but not all members of the Dreadwing split. One part remains, with the senior "loyal" brother becoming Chapter Master. The 1st Company is then called the "Dreadwing" to create the impression that Everything Is Fine.

 

Personally, I lean towards 1 at the moment. Seems like it was thrown into the codex as a neat nod to the Heresy books. However, there's simply too much unknown about how Heresy details will be used (reinforce, subvert, etc) with information pre-dating the HH books as things move forward.

 

One thing to think about, if one wants to further the idea of the Dreadwing being black sheep post-Caliban. Which 'wing's method of warfare is most likely to aid in all the factors that would lead to a planet being destroyed?

 

 

 

Equally, the 2nd Company is called the Raptorwing, and this lore is new to the 8th Edition Codex

 

Exactly. Look at all the new information the Imperial Fists, Raven Guard, Iron Hands, and White Scars got in their supplements relative to their coverage in HH (including FW books) and Black Library books compared to when their fundamental lore was established. The Dark Angels have had almost none of that level of description for their codex. If GW really wants to integrate ideas from the Hexagrammaton into any 40k stuff they have to wait until Crusade comes out.

 

EDIT: fixed some pretty bad grammar issues in one paragraph.


Edited by jaxom, 29 April 2020 - 05:55 PM.

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#7
Angel of Solitude

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Thanks for the detailed response - great to get the discussion going!
 

This may not be the best idea. The codex has been repeated that information since well before the Hexagrammaton was an idea. Master, however, has universally referred to Praetorian levels of command; (Grand) Master of an Order and occasionally Chapter Master. It is possible it will eventually be revealed that the Hexagrammaton had more of a role in the splintering of the Legion, but just from what we currently have I think it's the normal command structure being referred to here.

In many ways, this is what makes any current analysis of what happens after Caliban's fall hard to work with at the moment. All currently existing information was written before (or depends on such writing) the Horus Heresy novels and the Hexagrammaton concept.


Agreed. This aspect of the lore goes back very far - 4th Ed codex is the earliest I have access to, and it is clear that the Hexagrammaton was not a concept at all. However, the recent novels are placing the Hexagrammaton Voted-Lieutenants at the very top of the command structure, so I guess I'm trying to anticipate how this squares in to the existing lore!
 

The number of successors usually depended on the number of survivors at the time of the Second Founding.


Fair point. Four successor chapters equates to 4,000 marines. On arrival at Ultramar, the Lion had a force of 20,000, which is said to have fallen to 50% by the end of the Ruinstorm. This gives around 10,000 going into the Battle of Caliban for the Lion, plus whatever Corswain brought with him. 4,000 is not an unreasonable number of "survivors", enough for four whole chapters. In this instance, 6 is never going to fit nicely into 4...
 

If one were looking to circle the square, it could be a case of four Chapters for four Wings and then distributing the Deathwing and Ravenwing among them.


Equally, you have the Deathwing and Ravenwing in one camp, and the Dreadwing and Storm/Firewing in the other camp. Dread/Raven won out, imposing their structure throughout the four successor chapters. Either is a distinct possibility.
 

They were primarily a Forge World Chapter so it's possible when Blighe was working on the Horus Heresy material he either meant for them to be connected to the Dreadwing or just thought the symbol looked cool and made sense for an organization like the Dreadwing.

 

The Badab War book was published in 2010. Fallen Angels was published in 2009. I have no doubt that Alan Bligh had developed the Hexagrammaton concept prior to these two books being published. I find the following quotes from the Badab book revealing too:


"Some sources have since hinted that they utilised the Dark Angels gene-seed, although this has been vociferously denied by the Dark Angels themselves, and the Star Phantoms consider such queries, even via official channels, as inherently presumptuous and cause for offence."

"The Chapter has a preference for using heavy firepower to slaughter their enemies, closing to assault only when it is most tactically expedient to do so."

 

Bligh is trolling us here...creating a chapter of unknown origin, with both a fighting style, chapter icon and culture very similar to the Dreadwing, and with an overt dislike of any association with the Dark Angels?
 

Legacy of Caliban spoilers

Spoiler

 

I need to read that book again biggrin.png

However, in my head I've never considered that either of those characters could be potential Cypher candidates.

Spoiler

 

Personally, I lean towards 1 at the moment. Seems like it was thrown into the codex as a neat nod to the Heresy books. However, there's simply too much unknown about how Heresy details will be used (reinforce, subvert, etc) with information pre-dating the HH books as things move forward.

 

I think that's a good explanation as to how that lore can be created. I don't know who authored the 8th Ed Codex, but it is entirely possible that they read about the Dreadwing, thought it cool to include in the lore alongside the Death, Raven and Iron Wings, but didn't have the inside track on how the Dark Angels Horus Heresy timeline was going to play out.

Equally, if the Angels of Vengeance were formed from the Dreadwing, then why not also take on the Dreadwing symbol as the chapter symbol? Why give that honour to the Star Phantoms some 7,000 years later?
 

Exactly. Look at all the new information the Imperial Fists, Raven Guard, Iron Hands, and White Scars got in their supplements relative to their coverage in HH (including FW books) and Black Library books compared to when their fundamental lore was established. The Dark Angels have had almost none of that level of description for their codex. If GW really wants to integrate ideas from the Hexagrammaton into any 40k stuff they have to wait until Crusade comes out.

 

Yup. I'm positively giddy for the Dark Angels HH book, as I am for the 9th Ed Codex biggrin.png


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#8
Spinsanity

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I'm going to tackle the Star Phantoms first. In-universe, unrelated Chapters share insignia and names across the history of the history of the Imperium; it could be coincidence. Out-of-universe, the Star Phantoms existed prior to the Dreadwing. They were primarily a Forge World Chapter so it's possible when Blighe was working on the Horus Heresy material he either meant for them to be connected to the Dreadwing or just thought the symbol looked cool and made sense for an organization like the Dreadwing.

A lack of Dreadwing protocol is not evident as it's just a campaign of annihilation and Space Marine Chapters still do those. The difference is the same across all the First Founding and Second Founding Chapters - no one has the resources of a Legion to carry out such campaigns in the same manner that they used to do so (unless one counts orbital bombardment, but I'm sticking with boots on the ground annihilation).

I’ve long had my own theory as to why the Star Phantoms are basically never mentioned anywhere even though they might have originally been related to the Dreadwing.

Forge World’s Badab War book places them, iirc, as a 23rd founding chapter. However, in the Flesh Tearers first book (Flesh of Cretacea, if I remember the name right), the story begins with Amit ignoring a plea for help by the Star Phantoms in his pursuit of the Orks he’d been fighting. One can surmise that if the Phantoms requested assistance, maybe it led to their demise. Since this story was set in the early years of the Scouring (before the Tearers found their own homeworld), maybe their passing was so quick that some Administratum Clerk eventually decided to erase that failure from imperial history...

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So, having started to read The Unforgiven, I’ve encountered another view on this topic. As he is rising following the
Spoiler
Sapphon observes that the Deathwing and Ravenwing were reformed by Grand Master Haradin following the discovery of the existence of The Fallen. During the Heresy, Haradin was Grand Master of the 3rd Order, and was part of Corswain’s forces. So, one view of history is that in the aftermath of Caliban, Haradin took control of the legion - as described by the Codex.

So, two points here: first, the Haradin narrative appears in Gav Thorpe’s books, while the detail of the Hexagrammaton comes from David Guymer (Primarch novel, Dreadwing). I highlight this as a way to explain why there is a disparity in the lore.

The second point is that the Haradin origin story is told to us by Sapphon. Given the “circles within circles”, there is every likelihood that even Sapphon hasn’t been told the true history of the chapter, the roles played by Holguin, Redloss and the other Voted-Lieutenants during Caliban, and the true origins of the Death/Ravenwings in the successor chapters.

...and that’s enough for now.

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#10
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So, two points here: first, the Haradin narrative appears in Gav Thorpe’s books, while the detail of the Hexagrammaton comes from David Guymer (Primarch novel, Dreadwing). I highlight this as a way to explain why there is a disparity in the lore.

 

Don't forget Angels of Caliban, a Thorpe book. Also, I can't wait for The Lion to hit general release - I am personally disappointed by the long waiting period and having to dodge spoilers.


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#11
Angel of Solitude

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Yeah, Angels of Caliban is I think the first time we see the Voted-Lieutenants as major characters in the Horus Heresy, and as you say, it's a Gav Thorpe book. I had a quick skim through the book's entry on Lexicanium, and it reminded me that much of the book was about the sheer utter destruction that the Dreadwing can unleash. We then have tiular novel about the Dreadwing, at the end of which the Lion sets on his merry little way to Caliban. You can't help but think that the Dreadwing are going to have an instrumental role in the Fall of Caliban.

 

The obvious role is that they are the ones who are capable of unleashing the power that leads to the destruction of Caliban...but then this is the obvious play. Since their introduction, unhealthy tension between the wings has been a thing, particularly in the context of where their ultimate loyalty lies. I honestly believe this tension will have a crucial role to play in the Fall of Caliban.

 

I guess we'll have to wait though for at least until the SIege of Terra series is concluded :(


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#12
Skywrath

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I think the other wings still exist, however the other successors embody them. For instance the Consecrators can be the modern-day firewing based off their tactics/iconography. The Star Phantoms can be the Dreadwing (assuming they are of the Lion's geneseed), again due to their overwhelming odds traits on the battlefield. There was another chapter (think it was the Angels of Vengeance??) that embodied the aspect of the Deathwing. I'm sure that if I go through all the successors of the Dark Angels, I'll find a chapter that embodies one wing or another.  So, no, I don't think the wings are "dead", they are just masked. I do wonder if the First Legion re-unites again, whether these divisions will be the same divisions of old, in the new legion.  


Edited by Knight-Master Skywrath, 03 May 2020 - 08:15 PM.

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#13
Hrvat

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 or whoever assigns chapter heraldry simply stumbled across some old iconography? Weak I know smile.png but possible.

According to the older background it is done by the newly appointed Chapter Master upon consulting the Imperial Tarot, alongside choosing the initial name. Considering the tarot is apparently guided by the Emperor the initial name and heraldry are sanctioned by the highest authority. 







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Successors, Cypher

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