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New PA Engine War Range - What are you excited for?

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#101
DeStinyFiSh

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Rules look amazing!

Since custom FWs get 2 boni I guess regular Dogmas will see an update as well. Most of them would be to week otherwise.

Canticles both look great. Mars is nice for Breachers, Bots, Ironstrider (S8 Autocanons) and Icarus Onager. Even our Stubbers will be more reliable against T4. With Dogma and Cawl you can maybe get it multiple times, depends on the mechanic for the FW specific canticles.
Stygies might save your a.. every now and then. How often do you loose because you get tied up. To draw the whole army out of CC and still shoot might swing things around.

WLT looks amazing. Lots of flexibility added and very fitting as well. Tech Priest analyzing the fight and changing routines if needed. Nice.

Raiders still do not amaze me. But we need to see more of the rules.

Flyer seems good. -1 to hit and damage paired with Dogmas and Shroudpsalm might make it pretty durable.

All in all I like the preview a lot!

Edited by DeStinyFiSh, 26 May 2020 - 04:15 PM.


#102
Ishagu

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They've easily eclipsed my Ultramarines.

-Ignore movement penalties
-Add 1 to strength of heavy weapons (insane)
-Aura generating more hits on a 6 = 25% increase in damage

And I've literally just finished a pure 2k Mars force.

Edited by Ishagu, 26 May 2020 - 04:23 PM.

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#103
DanPesci

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Im a 'stygies' player (custom FW scheme but always used stygies rules), that new canticle seems a bit pants, but im excited for this now nevertheless.

 

Fall back and still shoot (when we know tanks are getting 'stay in combat and shoot') seems largely redundant.....I guess it could actually be useful on my large breacher squads but usually once theyre in combat I want them to stay there pulverising things. 

 

 

The mars one is really good.

 

S7 breachers/kastelans (and kastelans being able to move without the -1)

S8/9 Destroyers

S8 Icarus Array!

S5 stubbers are no joke

 

Can Mars Rangers/Vanguard with arqebus can now move and fire S8 sniper rounds???

 

Will be interesting to see how the FW canticles work for choosing -  as unless they replace one of the 1d6 you can roll for I'm not sure how itd work - maybe you can only use them once? (it would certainly reign in the mars one a bit!)

 

 

Those new warlord traits look tasty & flexible  (and you get to choose 1 of 3 each turn, with 4 sets to choose from? Yep, will take that)

 

The custom FW options also look like theyre going to be fun. That -1AP one is super useful against marines.

 

Totally called it on the raiders getting sniper biggrin.png advancing and shooting with the flamerdogs will be nice too.


Edited by DanPesci, 26 May 2020 - 04:47 PM.

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#104
Charlo

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As a certified Martian it makes me very excited. It's a solid boost to strength and output - I wonder if it will be enough though.



#105
Black_Knight

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Its enough for todays meta, but with 9th edition rules and points changes anything goes right now. A lot of choices to make during play, that makes me happy.


Edited by Black_Knight, 26 May 2020 - 05:04 PM.

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#106
Commissar Yossarian

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The Mars canticle looks bonkers. +1 St for so much of the shooting is an amazing break point for obliterating key targets along with no move and shoot penalty.

 

The flyer looks like hot trash the more they reveal for it. It may be suffering from early 9th rules where they grossly over estimate somethings effectiveness. Unless it's a super cheap platform (though at the launch price I don't know if that'll help it) I cannot see it being competitive.

 

The command uplink looks like an added purchase which helps apply a LD buff (useless currently) and unlocks a strategy that will never do anything. Spend a CP after leaving your flyer within 1-6" of an enemy character at the end of your move phase so they have to walk up to 5" away from your flyer so their auras work again? Who wrote that rule and who botched their lobotomy? Clearly no higher brain function was left at all.

 

New warlord mechanic looks awesome though. If they all have 1 awesome effect along with 2 situational effects then I'll make happy beeping noises.  



#107
Ishagu

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I imagine you can get two turns out of that Canticle. Select if turn 1, use the Strat to keep it turn 2.

And with Cawl you can have shrouding on turn 1 also.

-~Ishagu~-


#108
DeStinyFiSh

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The command uplink looks like an added purchase which helps apply a LD buff (useless currently) and unlocks a strategy that will never do anything. Spend a CP after leaving your flyer within 1-6" of an enemy character at the end of your move phase so they have to walk up to 5" away from your flyer so their auras work again? Who wrote that rule and who botched their lobotomy? Clearly no higher brain function was left at all.


Might be helpfull to break bubbles or at least force some heavy weapons to move. Situational, but not completely stupid in my opinion.

#109
DanPesci

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The flyer looks like hot trash the more they reveal for it. It may be suffering from early 9th rules where they grossly over estimate somethings effectiveness. Unless it's a super cheap platform (though at the launch price I don't know if that'll help it) I cannot see it being competitive.

 

The command uplink looks like an added purchase which helps apply a LD buff (useless currently) and unlocks a strategy that will never do anything. Spend a CP after leaving your flyer within 1-6" of an enemy character at the end of your move phase so they have to walk up to 5" away from your flyer so their auras work again? Who wrote that rule and who botched their lobotomy? Clearly no higher brain function was left at all.

 

 

 

I think the idea would less to fly them directly at a character, but more be to leave it 5-6" in front of your lines so that anything charging your lines them no longer gets character bonuses when they get there. Its very situational but theres also going to be some characters who dont want to move.

 

2 of these midfield with 12" bubbles characters cant move into without losing their auras seems like it would be a total nuisance to assault/midfield armies that rely on character buffs (chaplains, ragnars reroll charge bubble etc)

 

You could also end up with some sneaky tactics where you are effectively 'pushing' characters towards where you want them (e.g. towards your new units of raiders).

 

Its not like its not also still firing weapons (with -1 to damage), so until we see points I just see these command uplink things as being nice bonuses. 


Edited by DanPesci, 26 May 2020 - 08:32 PM.

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#110
Black_Knight

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I get this man - Although being able to collect three armies over three years is pretty impressive, that's much faster than a lot of people. I tend to buy a kit or two every other month and have been on and off for years - New edition boxes/ limited run boxes are only picked up when they're relevant to me personally - Namely never (Until Forgebane).

 

 

I have been very lucky with ebay buying tbh got a knight for £40 and then this last year we had the double Knight set and some free Armigers with the Castellan Christmas box set. I doubt we will see them again anytime soon.


Edited by Black_Knight, 26 May 2020 - 07:02 PM.

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#111
Magos Takatus

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A Dogma for a Rad saturated Forge World? Thanks GW, that's a great move for me. 

 

IMG 20190806 102420
 teehee.gif
 
Seriously though, some of these rules look pretty fun. I cannot wait until these models are released. The asking price has dampened my enthusiasm a little but I'll still be buying a few items. Still deciding if the Sulpherhounds or the Raiders look more interesting.

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#112
krakjen

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Can Mars Rangers/Vanguard with arqebus can now move and fire S8 sniper rounds???

Unfortunately, no.

It's the Transuranic Arquebus weapon description that prevents from firing when moving, not the Heavy keyword.



#113
DanPesci

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Can Mars Rangers/Vanguard with arqebus can now move and fire S8 sniper rounds???

Unfortunately, no.

It's the Transuranic Arquebus weapon description that prevents from firing when moving, not the Heavy keyword.

 

 

Ah yeah you are right, shame, i had amazing visions of multiple units piling out of skorpius haha.

 

They'll still be S8 though right? Wounding most characters on 2s is nice.


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#114
krakjen

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Can Mars Rangers/Vanguard with arqebus can now move and fire S8 sniper rounds???

Unfortunately, no.

It's the Transuranic Arquebus weapon description that prevents from firing when moving, not the Heavy keyword.

 

 

Ah yeah you are right, shame, i had amazing visions of multiple units piling out of skorpius haha.

 

They'll still be S8 though right? Wounding most characters on 2s is nice.

 

Yeah of course, it's still a Heavy weapon so it qualifies for the buff.

And so are pretty much all our vehicles/Kataphrons weapons.



#115
Ishagu

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Will more people be playing Mars now? I wonder.
Lol it's still possible others will have unique canticles even better than this.
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#116
brother_b

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Will more people be playing Mars now? I wonder.
Lol it's still possible others will have unique canticles even better than this.


I wonder that too. Very powerful forgeworld already got a kicker of a new rule. I wonder what the other forgeworlds will get.

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#117
MajorNese

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No need to debate which forge world is the most powerful, when we barely have any information on the others.

As with every other codex release - a faction is always the absolute strongest just before the rules are actually released.

 

When do the youtubers usually put up their review vids? That would give a more complete picture.


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#118
Commissar Yossarian

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@DeStiny and Dan Pesci

It's stupid because the vast majority of auras worth caring about are units within X not models. So the enemy character can easily sit just outside 6" of the flyer and still cover the units they care about. The effect costs CP and the life of your flyer for something at best that will be a minor annoyance.

For the points and CP cost it's always going to be more effective denying enemy auras by killing the offending character then parking a vehicle in a convenient place to die in hopes of turning off an aura if your opponent happens to suffer a stroke between the end of your movement phase and the end of their movement phase/shooting phase dependant.

Doubling down to make bigger bubbles etc is just running further down the efficiency ladder. It's a neat idea with a dumpster fire implementation.

#119
GrinNfool

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@DeStiny and Dan Pesci

It's stupid because the vast majority of auras worth caring about are units within X not models. So the enemy character can easily sit just outside 6" of the flyer and still cover the units they care about. The effect costs CP and the life of your flyer for something at best that will be a minor annoyance.

For the points and CP cost it's always going to be more effective denying enemy auras by killing the offending character then parking a vehicle in a convenient place to die in hopes of turning off an aura if your opponent happens to suffer a stroke between the end of your movement phase and the end of their movement phase/shooting phase dependant.

Doubling down to make bigger bubbles etc is just running further down the efficiency ladder. It's a neat idea with a dumpster fire implementation.

Eh there are a handful of things its useful against.  There are quite a few units that supply defensive benefits, that you can make a garunteed removal of.  Things that come to mind off the top of my head are the shadowseers -1 to wound (and new +6" range check) DG have some ones that buff their FNPs,  Custodes banners for -1 to hit, or the +1 fnp banner for DA etc.  Can also use to remove rerolls or bonuses from a unit you are about to charge w/ electros, dragoons, or the new sulphurhounds/pteraxxi.  IH defensive auras, darkshrouds etc.  There are uses, its not gamebreaking, but its 1 cp, I think for 1 cp it has enough situational uses you will occasionally find yourself using it.


Edited by GrinNfool, 27 May 2020 - 07:31 AM.

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#120
Ishagu

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You could use it to remove the 5++ and 5+++ bubble from Iron Hands, as an example.
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#121
DanPesci

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It's stupid because the vast majority of auras worth caring about are units within X not models. So the enemy character can easily sit just outside 6" of the flyer and still cover the units they care about. The effect costs CP and the life of your flyer for something at best that will be a minor annoyance.

For the points and CP cost it's always going to be more effective denying enemy auras by killing the offending character then parking a vehicle in a convenient place to die in hopes of turning off an aura if your opponent happens to suffer a stroke between the end of your movement phase and the end of their movement phase/shooting phase dependant.

 

 

I get that its more efficient to kill characters full stop than just remove their aura but most assault armies want to be in combat turn 2 or will even have alpha strike elements - which generally means you don't have time to clear screens/get to their characters before they do what they want.

 

As noted above its probably much more useful to think of it in terms of removing defensive buffs for your own shooting, than removing the enemies offensive buffs.

 

E.g.

 

As a wolves player I often utlise storm caller psychic power (gives rune priest 6" cover bubble), followed by the cloaked by  the storm strat (-1 to hit bubble - this costs 3CP!) in order to have a hope of my guys reaching combat.

 

Both can be shut down by this flyer/1CP strat. 

 

Id still say against buff based assault armies it also has its uses. Place one 4-5 inches out in front of the unit you really don't want charged and pop the strat. You're now forcing someone to make a decision - focus fire on the flyer (which they may not want to do, or be able to take down (-2 to hit with stygies, -1 dmg) or potentially lose any charge/combat aura buffs. 

 

Is it going to be super useful every game? No. But it is far from useless.


Edited by DanPesci, 27 May 2020 - 10:55 AM.

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#122
MajorNese

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Is it going to be super useful every game? No. But it is far from useless.

This.

The game has so damn many aura abilities creating game-breaking combos, we'll only see what mileage we get out of that when we know what our opponent fields/does.

Not all strats are meant to be used each and every game, they are tools for the toolbox, and a potentially damn useful one in this case. At least we can decide if/when we spend CP on that - unit abilities (like the primaris Infiltrators' anti deep strike bubble) are included in the unit cost, and can be wasted points before even putting down the first model.


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#123
DanPesci

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Will more people be playing Mars now? I wonder.
Lol it's still possible others will have unique canticles even better than this.


I wonder that too. Very powerful forgeworld already got a kicker of a new rule. I wonder what the other forgeworlds will get.

 

 

 

I think of the 2 mars definately now has the edge over Stygies (I thought the reverse previously)

 

The -1 to hit of stygies is still very good against some armies (as is the pregame move strat which i presume is staying), so its not surprising their extra canticle is weak as otherwise they would have probably become too strong - I would have still liked to see them get something not quite so useless though 

 

it might be just my build - but I either have CC units that wont ever want to fall back once they are in combat (breachers/priests), or units not strong enough to survive combat/still be a viable shooting threat after they fall back (e.g. vanguard/infiltrators) or units that are about to get a rule that means they can stay in combat and shoot (onagers, skorpius).

 

If you were running massed destroyers or even several 10 man vanguard units - maybe it would have a use?

 

 

But the sheer extra strength output of the mars one (whilst being able to also have shroudspalm on) is just gonna be bonkers!

 

Cant wait to see what other FW get though as 1 extra rule can make a huge difference


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#124
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Well with the raiders getting character sniping rules, which from what I see is independent of wargear, they have the chance of being really damned good if they have 10" movement. But it'll come down to their carbines stats. If the guns are carbon copy snipers with RF1 I don't think they'll be too used, if its assualt 2 though I can see them having a niche.

With the new canticles I'm hoping Ryza gets something good, with both Mars and Stygies getting something good it helps keep that hope afloat. Buuut nothing will stop me from my plasma barbecue, now with a dash of promethium from the sulphurhounds.
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#125
Prot

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The Canticle is good. Not great, but good. It's similar to a Marine Doctrine, but the random element comes into play once you exhaust your abilities to choose it. Marine version appears better since everyone has a 'super doctrine'.  

 

Having 6 Kastelan robots makes me happy to use it as often as possible. Also glad I magnetized my 6 Kataphrons way back in the day before we knew if  Vigilus was going to help them. I thin Grav might come out again. 

 

The Copter is still probably my go to of the new stuff. Stealing the eldar ability is a nice survival buff. 

 

I'm still struggling to find a reason to open the wallet up for those infantry units/serberys. 

 

I have 10 of each Priest type and I've always seen the merit of certain combo's withe Fulgurites where as most seem to prefer the Corpuscarii.  So replacing those with this new infantry doesn't really grab me yet. I also have 10 Sicaran infiltrators I never use anymore. 

 

I strongly suspected AdMech and Necrons to get a good boost going into end of 8th edition. I'm just realistically holding off on some of these new units until I see how they work in 9th since we are at the end of an edtion.

 

I remember when we got one of the first codexes of 8th and quickly faded into obscurity along with Grey Knights.  So literally some of these units can be fantastic but at this point in the edition and the fact we probably won't have 'proper' tournaments for a year.... I might actually be smart and hold on to some money. 

 

The flyer I admit will probably steal a few bucks from me personally. 


Edited by Prot, 27 May 2020 - 01:58 PM.

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