Undertaking a new project.

[Irate Khornate]

Im thinking of branching out into the realms of other aligned chaos armies. Khorne has been an absolute blast, but until World Eaters get their own codex/units im practically finished with the exception of batch painting bloodletters.

 

Thousand Sons/Tzeench daemons has pretty much been my designated go to post Khorne. I'm thinking of picking up 3 of the starter boxes but this leads me to a major question.

 

If I were to build and paint one Ahriman as the traditional blue and gold would someone take issue if I painted a second one with the Brotherhood of Dust red and silver and ran him as an Magistus Amon(read Exalted Sorcerer)? The staff would be converted for Amon and the rest of the army would be Brotherhood of Dust paint scheme, but for the most part the model would be untouched except for color.

[WarriorFish]

I don't think anyone would mind especially if you plan to convert him up. I'd get the Exalted Sorcerers box set at some point as aside from adding good models it's a fantastic kit full of great bits - might give you ideas and fodder for more? With a different core colour scheme the models will look different enough. Keep us updated with your model progress :tu:

[Irate Khornate]

So here's a question, how viable are half and half contemptor dreadnoughts? I am absolutely entranced by the Osiron Dreadnaught.

[WarriorFish]

I'm assuming you mean half Helbrutes and half Contemptors? If so, I think it is viable. The Helbrutes can offer a bit more quantity while still being good in their own right and this allows your Contemptors to specialise a bit and make the most of their advantages. Added bonus could be that opponents may focus more on your Contemptors which are more dangerous but also a bit more durable, this may give your Helbrutes more breathing room to shine :)

 

So for example having two Contemptors (one stock Sons, one Osiron) and two Helbrutes should form a neat core to your Dreads and AT along with some combat punch too. I'll let more experienced players embellish with better ideas ;)

[Irate Khornate]

I meant more of how effective is a contemptor armed with a melee weapon and a gun. There are the stirrings of a plan to fling them at the front lines with the Cult of Duplicity.

 

Normally I'm all for specializing one or the other, but I've noticed a distinct lack of long range anti-tank so it doesn't seem right to take melee contemptors. Though I will accept that I'm just trying to have my cake and eat it to.

[Prot]

With the Contemptor you're largely paying for a great Ballistic Skill and some survivability. I think you're asking this question because you know the answer. ;)

 

My Contemptors always have dual Lascannons. It's not only a decent point cost, but it fills a massive hole we have in list making.

 

I will say I fiddle with using the newer teleportation power from Duplicity to 'flip' a Helbrute (very basic: Melta/Fist) up the board. If I get him in cover it's amazing some games what some people have to pour into him. The thing I'm saying here is there's no need to do it with a Contemptor. A cheaper Helbrute is just as scary in that scenario.

 

The other thing I'll mention is dual fists Contemptors. They actually have kind of decent 'fist' loadouts.

[WarriorFish]

Ah right, that's how I always take mine. Partly it's because I like it but also because the melee capability goes a long way. For Sons especially so I'd imagine, I also don't want to miss out on those 4 WS2+ fist attacks. That said my CSM are Slaanesh so want to be punching things so they would want a combat weapon arm.

 

As Prot says the "best" is probably dual guns, and Sons would like more long range guns. Would make it a high target priority however, but I think that Contemptors have enough going for them that you can likely justify any build :)

[Irate Khornate]

With the Contemptor you're largely paying for a great Ballistic Skill and some survivability. I think you're asking this question because you know the answer. ;)

 

My Contemptors always have dual Lascannons. It's not only a decent point cost, but it fills a massive hole we have in list making.

 

I will say I fiddle with using the newer teleportation power from Duplicity to 'flip' a Helbrute (very basic: Melta/Fist) up the board. If I get him in cover it's amazing some games what some people have to pour into him. The thing I'm saying here is there's no need to do it with a Contemptor. A cheaper Helbrute is just as scary in that scenario.

 

The other thing I'll mention is dual fists Contemptors. They actually have kind of decent 'fist' loadouts.

You're absolutely right. I'm just trying to justify to myself buying 3 Osirons

[Archaeinox]

I bet Cult of Duplicity would love teleporting a melee contemptor somewhere every turn. If you're getting three, that could be viable and be worth taking a battalion of Duplicity (any aspiring sorcerer could cast if needed)

Edited May 11, 2020 by Archaeinox

[Irate Khornate]

I've been pondering it more and more and i can't quite justify it. My next Forgeworld purchase is likely to be either dual lascannon contemptors or dual c-beam. Anyone have some knowledge to share on c-beams? They look great in theory hammer, but I'm not sure they'd perform as well on table with the restriction on movement.

[WarriorFish]

With how quickly armies can move and units can be upon you I'm not sure how much opportunity there will be to get the most from them. An opponent won't let that happen easily, so it feels like this will not happen often short of lining up against another unit that wants to be far away. At least with lascannons they're always hitting at good stats.

 

It's a shame as I wanted to use them too (long liking and using Techmarines, and it's one of their things) but for the armies my Contemptors are in I couldn't really justify it. The profile isn't that amazing outside of the top one and I always ended up comparing it to autocannons or lascannons

[Irate Khornate]

Welp, until Forgeworld reopens the point is moot but most likely lascannon. Until then, how do thousand sons play with their pantheon daemonkind? Or is that mostly ignored due to goats?

[Prot]

I think we'll see an upsurge in the Daemon element once a Psychic Awakening treatment happens. 

 

They are in a weird spot right now. I know Arch likes to take the Lord of Change. I think that's a strong move because that inherent 3+ Invuln is very nice, but it's a fair amount of points.

 

The second version is a cheap Battalion because you can throw Pinks/blues/yellows in the mix to your desire to get those 5 CP at a reasonable points cost. They do disappear very quickly however.

 

Third version is cherry picking. You set aside your reserve points and use them how you see fit and summon them. Let's say you're facing an army with Assassins. You bring in Flamers and scorch his fat head off the planet. Summoning keeps you flexible.

 

All three options get you the ability to use Daemon Strats (I think?!). The one I used to always go for is the double perils strat. It's an easy way to get your opponent to take up to 6 mortal wounds from Perils.

[Irate Khornate]

I think we'll see an upsurge in the Daemon element once a Psychic Awakening treatment happens.

 

They are in a weird spot right now. I know Arch likes to take the Lord of Change. I think that's a strong move because that inherent 3+ Invuln is very nice, but it's a fair amount of points.

 

The second version is a cheap Battalion because you can throw Pinks/blues/yellows in the mix to your desire to get those 5 CP at a reasonable points cost. They do disappear very quickly however.

 

Third version is cherry picking. You set aside your reserve points and use them how you see fit and summon them. Let's say you're facing an army with Assassins. You bring in Flamers and scorch his fat head off the planet. Summoning keeps you flexible.

 

All three options get you the ability to use Daemon Strats (I think?!). The one I used to always go for is the double perils strat. It's an easy way to get your opponent to take up to 6 mortal wounds from Perils.

I hate to be the negative, but I'm not expecting much from PA for daemons. I can understand with this whole covid nonsense, but gut feeling tells me it's the redheaded stepchild of this release.

[Quixus]

I bet Cult of Duplicity would love teleporting a melee contemptor somewhere every turn. If you're getting three, that could be viable and be worth taking a battalion of Duplicity (any aspiring sorcerer could cast if needed)

What has been bouncing around in my mind is two "Osirons" (yeah we only get the hellforgerd rules in 40K :( ) and a Dreadclaw. Arm one with dual shooters (lascannons or butcher cannons) and the other with dual melee weapons. Put the latter into the dreadclaw and drop it on the face of the enemy.

 

Any thoughts on that?

[Montoya]

thinking on this.   Why not do dual chain claws (or dreadclaws if you like).   And then put Ectoplasma blasters in them?

 

you sacrifice some range, but then you still have two dual shot S8 weapon that do 2 damage, in addition to getting the extra attack for having 2 melee weapons.

 

If your plan is to flip them forward into your opponents face, then the range reduction isn't such a big thing. 

[Irate Khornate]

So now with dreads shooting in combat for 9th edition, how does a fist n gun Contemptor look?

[Archaeinox]

It's making me strongly consider replacing my twin las/fist with twin heavy bolter/fist and spending 1 CP for Inferno Bolts. ESPECIALLY since we generate 1 CP in our cmd phase.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Archaeinox

[Quixus]

Sounds makes Cotemptors and other dreads able to do somthing across all phases (except the Psychic Phase) Come on, FW, give us a 40k Osiron!

[Irate Khornate]

So I've gone full circle and came back to this drawing board. With the changes made to Forgeworld dreadnoughts, what can I use for reliable tank hunting? Common question I know. I'm thinking about picking up a few laser destroyer vindicators. Will they work or do I need to look elsewhere?

[Archaeinox]

I've been on the receiving end of a pair of Vindicator Laser Destroyers in recent 9th games and the reliable minimum damage output for shots that connect made them pretty scary for me. The same opponent also had lascannons in the list and they are much more swingy. I stopped using lascannons, myself (unless you paid 2-3 helbrutes with lascannon/missile up with the Prophecy relic in which case lascannons are ok).

Edited January 1, 2021 by Archaeinox