++Why Reivers are Bad++

[Iron Lord]

 

 I imagine all new SW Primaris marines starting out as Reivers similar to how first borns start as Blood Claws and think GW should rule them as such: Primaris close combat troop choice.

 

 

Codex says our Reivers take Scout Pack markings so they could easily go either way (troops or elites) for us

 

 

i find myself unable to agree with the "reivers should be blood claws" takes. Reivers are professionals, scary and ruthless stonecold killers, hence they are Wolf Scouts to me. Blood Claws are wild and rambunctious, terrifying in their own undisciplined way.

 

 

 

Its a lot of shoehorning at the moment but Eliminators and Incursors/Infiltrators are much closer to Wolf Scouts but theyre heavy support (bizarely) and troops respectively.

 

 

Except in space wolves blood claws are the scout equivalent. So this really sets no precedent for reivers being blood claws at all...

 

I'd agree with those that say Reivers are first and foremost recon rather than first and foremost close support.

 

So their shoulder pad markings don't need to change. I'm assuming that all the Vanguard, including Fire Support Guys like Suppressors, will wear the same black markings on grey  background that the Reivers do.

 

 

 

 

The point I was trying to make was that there's precedent for Reivers being the youngest power armoured guys in the 10th Company. Space Wolves being Space Wolves, their "newbies" wear power armour not carapace armour - because they don't put anyone on the battlefield until their Black Carapaces have taken, and  they're ready to wear power armour. Carapace armour, the gear of the Wolf Scout, is reserved for those Grey Hunters that have a mile-wide streak of "loner" and a real knack for stealth.

 

 

 

So, psychologically, a Reiver can be in the same place as a Blood Claw - a guy whose Black Carapace was only implanted a short time before.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Iron Lord

[Valerian]

I'm really looking forward to revisiting this topic when 9e drops.  It's possible that the upcoming changes make these guys worthwhile.  We already have indications that Morale is going to be more impactful, and in new ways, so the Reivers' Terror Troops ability might actually do something worthwhile.  Also, we know that maximizing Troops for Command Points isn't going to be a concern in 9e like it is now, so the fact that these guys sit in the awkward Elite slot will probably be much, much less of an issue.  

 

We'll really dive into a new evaluation of these guys once we have all of the details, but I'm crossing my fingers that 9e makes Reivers worth taking, for Space Wolves players.

[Wispy]

i was musing a few weeks ago that terror aura might be fun - an aura that disrupts enemy units from gaining the benefit of a command aura. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Wispy

[TiguriusX]

i was musing a few weeks ago that terror aura might be fun - an aura that disrupts enemy units from gaining the benefit of a command aura. 

 

Even better...no stratagems or CP can be used on the unit in the terror aura

[Wispy]

yep, that would outright make them a useful asset. Edited May 29, 2020 by Wispy

[Dark Shepherd]

The general outflanking ability waters down deep strike ability so hopefully theyll drop in points too

[Wolf Guard Dan]

I agree with Kraigan. They should allow grapple guns to ignore vertical distance like they did. Something needs to change for them.

 

Overall I don’t see Reivers “getting good” with the new edition. Unless GW was committed to revisiting their rules in earnest. I hope they do get good. I’ll be looking good forward to Valerian’s dissertation on “Why Reivers are Good”. :)

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

They have said the are changing leadership so my hope is that they actually end up being scary because I feel like thats their real unique ability and a way they could be made to shine but we shall see.

[Dark Shepherd]

They have said the are changing leadership so my hope is that they actually end up being scary because I feel like thats their real unique ability and a way they could be made to shine but we shall see.

If that change is leadership tests are cumulative not per turn then any leadership modifier gets a lot scarier

[Triszin]

The morale attrition or something

.

 

I'm really curious to see what it is exactly.

 

As it might make reivers useful with our other tools. Lukas, krom, strats

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Reivers need a fair amount of help imo. 

 

1) they aren't troops.

 

If they become troops I largely think that they're fine as they are. That said 9th will bring some changes on that front, and I think it would be a lot more interesting to make them feel elite. I mainly listed this drawback first because its a simple fix (which isn't always the best) 

 

2) they don't hit hard enough.

 

I would give their knives an ap bonus on a turn they successfully charge. For the carbines, I think I would limit their range to 18" and give them an extra point of strength.  

 

3) their gear is hard to leverage.

 

I think the range of the shock grenades should be extended to 10", and their grappling hooks should allow them to re-roll 1 or both dice on charge rolls if the opposing unit is in cover.

 

I do think if they remain elites that they would probably need both second and third points addressed.

 

[Jarl Caldersson]

I think we should stop focusing on "they aren't troops". I doubt they will ever become troops,  and at this point its just pointless wish listing. So lets fixate our attention what can be done.

 

In the books the Reivers are said to carried "power knives", however their weapon profile is that of a normal knife. So what if we actually give it a power knife profile, something like AP-2 or S+1 AP-1? Also make their grav-chute standard, as they don't have concealed cover rule, they can at least get a deep strike rule which seems to be more powerful according to 9th rumors.

 

As for the morale thing, with 9th around and modifiers being only +-1, i think the gang-up strategy people are using to lower morale may not last.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Jarl Caldersson

[Dark Shepherd]

I think we should stop focusing on "they aren't troops". I doubt they will ever become troops, and at this point its just pointless wish listing. So lets fixate our attention what can be done.

 

In the books the Reivers are said to carried "power knives", however their weapon profile is that of a normal knife. So what if we actually give it a power knife profile, something like AP-2 or S+1 AP-1? Also make their grav-chute standard, as they don't have concealed cover rule, they can at least get a deep strike rule which seems to be more powerful according to 9th rumors.

 

As for the morale thing, with 9th around and modifiers being only +-1, i think the gang-up strategy people are using to lower morale may not last.

Astartes Combat Knife