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Raptors and Warp Talons - Thoughts wanted


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#1
SilverShire

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Hi guys I am looking to add either a unit or two of Raptors or Warp Talons to my Alpha Legion army and wanted to get your thoughts on them. Here is my take on them:

 

Raptors - I would only take them in units of 5 and max out on plasma as much as possible. A unit of 5 could drop 6 plasma shots (in rapid fire) with 2 plasma guns and a combo-plasma on the champion for 108pts which I think is pretty good. 

 

Warp Talons - I think these guys come in pretty expensive at 19pts a model but they look to be pretty good in combat and have the 5++. 

 

Those are my thoughts, what are your guys? 


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#2
Galron

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  1. With a host raptoral warp talons are great. The important part of Warp talons is no overwatch on the turn they drop in.

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#3
SilverShire

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Face palm moment for not reading the Warpflame Strike rule properly facepalm.png is there a way to buff their likelihood of making the charge distance? 


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#4
Zephaniah Adriyen

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I feel that, for Alpha Legion in particular, Raptors are "better" - from a fluff perspective. Strap jump packs to MkIV Tacticals, or pick up the Forge World resin MkIV Assault Marines and some upgrades for 'em. You could pick up a MkIV plastic squad (so you get gun-holding off hands), an Assault Marine resin box and the Forge World Plasma Gun and Combi-Weapon upgrades, run a squad of Raptors with double plasma and a combi-plasma and still have a bunch of MkIV parts left over.

 

As far as Warp Talons, I've always seen Alpha Legion as being closet Loyalists, or at least not Chaos worshippers, in general. Warp Talons are, by necessity, Warp entities, as far as their rules are concerned... althooooough, you could run them as something akin to what Corax became - an individual so heavily Warp-exposed as to become Daemon-like himself. I'm aware that this came from him being a Primarch, but the Astartes have a bit of the spark of demigodhood that Primarchs possess. Just my two cents. I'm expecting most of this thread to be rules things - which, admittedly, seems to be more what you were getting at - but hey, this is my thoughts on the Alpha Legion and the two jump infantry options they have access to.


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#5
SilverShire

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Admittedly my original post does imply thoughts on the rules of the two units but for me fluff is just as important as strength of a unit! I prefer to play a fun fluffy army but there are times were I'm playing in more serious matches (competitions at my FLGS


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#6
Iron Father Ferrum

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I don't deep strike my Raptors. I Forward Operative them. They have the speed that the extra 9" can get them just about anywhere, and they can really leverage their Assault weapon options with all that movement racked up. Triple melta makes them good tank hunters and triple flamer is great for roasting light infantry.
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#7
Lucerne

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I feel that, for Alpha Legion in particular, Raptors are "better" - from a fluff perspective. Strap jump packs to MkIV Tacticals, or pick up the Forge World resin MkIV Assault Marines and some upgrades for 'em. You could pick up a MkIV plastic squad (so you get gun-holding off hands), an Assault Marine resin box and the Forge World Plasma Gun and Combi-Weapon upgrades, run a squad of Raptors with double plasma and a combi-plasma and still have a bunch of MkIV parts left over.

 

As far as Warp Talons, I've always seen Alpha Legion as being closet Loyalists, or at least not Chaos worshippers, in general. Warp Talons are, by necessity, Warp entities, as far as their rules are concerned... althooooough, you could run them as something akin to what Corax became - an individual so heavily Warp-exposed as to become Daemon-like himself. I'm aware that this came from him being a Primarch, but the Astartes have a bit of the spark of demigodhood that Primarchs possess. Just my two cents. I'm expecting most of this thread to be rules things - which, admittedly, seems to be more what you were getting at - but hey, this is my thoughts on the Alpha Legion and the two jump infantry options they have access to.

Warp Talons? No such thing.

 

They're Alpha Legion CQC assault marines...that a daemon has taken an interest in, against their will.


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#8
Iron Father Ferrum

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Mighty arrogant of you to impose your beliefs on someone else's fluff. My Alpha Legion Warp Talons are exactly what the codex says they are.
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#9
ChazSexington

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You'll want to run them with Host Raptorial from the Vigilus Ablaze supplement. You make a Detachment "Host Raptorial" for 1 CP, spend 1 more CP to make a Character with a Jump Pack a Field Commander (Tip of the Spear or something), and all Jump Pack units from that Detachment gain +2 to charge if they're within 6" of their Field Commander. Warp Talons then come down with a 7" charge and no Overwatch. 

 

 

I feel that, for Alpha Legion in particular, Raptors are "better" - from a fluff perspective. Strap jump packs to MkIV Tacticals, or pick up the Forge World resin MkIV Assault Marines and some upgrades for 'em. You could pick up a MkIV plastic squad (so you get gun-holding off hands), an Assault Marine resin box and the Forge World Plasma Gun and Combi-Weapon upgrades, run a squad of Raptors with double plasma and a combi-plasma and still have a bunch of MkIV parts left over.

 

As far as Warp Talons, I've always seen Alpha Legion as being closet Loyalists, or at least not Chaos worshippers, in general. Warp Talons are, by necessity, Warp entities, as far as their rules are concerned... althooooough, you could run them as something akin to what Corax became - an individual so heavily Warp-exposed as to become Daemon-like himself. I'm aware that this came from him being a Primarch, but the Astartes have a bit of the spark of demigodhood that Primarchs possess. Just my two cents. I'm expecting most of this thread to be rules things - which, admittedly, seems to be more what you were getting at - but hey, this is my thoughts on the Alpha Legion and the two jump infantry options they have access to.

 

 

Admittedly my original post does imply thoughts on the rules of the two units but for me fluff is just as important as strength of a unit! I prefer to play a fun fluffy army but there are times were I'm playing in more serious matches (competitions at my FLGS

 

It's fully fluffy to run Alpha Legion Warp Talons. There's plenty of Possessed, Daemon Princes etc. in Alpha Legion lore. 

All Chaos Warbands (bar maybe the Cult Legions and the Word Bearers) have varying levels of corruption enhancement. Two Warbands from the same Legion don't necessarily have anything in common other than their origins. 


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#10
SilverShire

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+2 to charge is very nice, looks like I'll have to get a copy of Vigilus! 

 

I never thought about using forward operatives on either unit Ferrum, depending on deployment map it could be a good way to get either unit in a distance for a reasonable turn 1 charge success. 


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#11
Iron Father Ferrum

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It's not worth it so much for Talons because they only deny Overwatch on turns they deep strike.
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#12
Zephaniah Adriyen

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Mighty arrogant of you to impose your beliefs on someone else's fluff. My Alpha Legion Warp Talons are exactly what the codex says they are.

It was a suggestion, nothing more. In addition, this thread was asking for people's thoughts on Alpha Legion Warp Talons and Raptors; I gave mine.


"All power demands sacrifice and pain. The universe rewards those willing to spill their life's blood for the promise of power." - Sindri Myr

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#13
Lucerne

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Mighty arrogant of you to impose your beliefs on someone else's fluff. My Alpha Legion Warp Talons are exactly what the codex says they are.

As usual, you completely missed the point.

 

Anyway, yes, you like palette swaps of every other CSM warband ever as your personal preferred flavor of AL. We know. That's great- I'm just giving OP and someone looking to do things in another way a fluff suggestion for how someone could handle things imaginatively while using the flawed Codex to represent a subfaction with more unique fluff.


Edited by Lucerne, 20 May 2020 - 05:28 PM.

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#14
Gederas

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Mighty arrogant of you to impose your beliefs on someone else's fluff. My Alpha Legion Warp Talons are exactly what the codex says they are.

I think it's more amusing that there are people who still think the Alpha Legion were ever loyalists. If there’s anything more tedious than the "Dark Angels are secretly traitors" joke, it’s that the Alpha Legion are secretly not.



#15
Zephaniah Adriyen

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Mighty arrogant of you to impose your beliefs on someone else's fluff. My Alpha Legion Warp Talons are exactly what the codex says they are.

I think it's more amusing that there are people who still think the Alpha Legion were ever loyalists. If there’s anything more tedious than the "Dark Angels are secretly traitors" joke, it’s that the Alpha Legion are secretly not.

 

I feel that it's a mix. The Alpha Legion have the liberty of multiple Primarchs, they, of all Legions, can be more than just Traitors, closet Loyalists or simple Renegades. They can be all of the above, more than any other Legion, and their clandestine nature means it's possible for them to look like they're one thing.


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#16
Lucerne

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Mighty arrogant of you to impose your beliefs on someone else's fluff. My Alpha Legion Warp Talons are exactly what the codex says they are.

I think it's more amusing that there are people who still think the Alpha Legion were ever loyalists. If there’s anything more tedious than the "Dark Angels are secretly traitors" joke, it’s that the Alpha Legion are secretly not.

 

The idea of AL loyalists depends very much on your definition of loyalist, because- as much as the "literally loyalists" meme is almost as tiresome as "they have to be Chaotic", there are in fact multiple instances suggesting exactly the former across their lore, and in ways that speak to the Legion's driving force.

 

That said, the ambiguity of their motivations and their endgame is very much the point. It's one of the few concrete things about them- the Alpha Legion marches to the beat of its own drum and is a dubiously reliable ally to any cause it allegedly marches for. To quote forge world, "It was a weapon neither first the Emperor nor later the Warmaster could control." At every point in their timeline, including pre-Heresy, they've been a loose cannon that has its own ideas about how things should be done and uncertain obedience to outside leadership. Changing that is pretty much throwing away everything that makes the AL the AL.

 

Regarding raptors and warp talons, there's room for them in AL of any iteration, since there's usually a tidbit about "from all nine legions" re: raptors whenever they're mentioned, and the AL in any iteration isn't fussy about the usage of catspaws. That said, to restate past commentary on Night Lords, the idea any jump pack Marine that picks up a lightning claw has to magically become a warp talon fluff-wise is ridiculous and shows the flaws in the CSM Codex, so "Warp Talon" rules should be treated as a very loose suggestion for the category of jump pack marines it represents.


Edited by Lucerne, 20 May 2020 - 06:26 PM.

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