Valerian Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 (edited) Over the weekend, Colin McDade won the first in-pandemic Grand Tournament (major) with his Grey Knights. Full list in that link, so y'all can discuss the good and the bad. Only 26 players showed (normally 80 at that event), but still a promising sign about the potential for competitive Grey Knights post Ritual of the Damned. Also some interesting things to dissect from that list that speak directly to several conversations we've had in here in the Titan subforum over the last couple weeks/months. Edited May 20, 2020 by Jolemai Edited title Skywrath, librisrouge and Corvus Fortis 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted May 20, 2020 Author Share Posted May 20, 2020 So, I'll summarize some of the important bits. He ran a double-Battalion, for the starting 13 Command Points. For HQ/Character choices he went with: Grand Master Voldus Brother-Captain with Psycannon and Hammer Librarian with Warding Stave Chaplain with Crozius Arcanum Apothecary with Hammer For Troops he went with: 10x Marine Terminator Squad (6x Halberds and 4x Warding Staves) 10x Marine Strike Squad (10x Swords) 5x Marine Strike Squad (4x Falchions and a Psilencer) 5x Marine Strike Squad (4x Falchions and a Psilencer) 5x Marine Strike Squad (4x Halberds and a Psilencer) 5x Marine Strike Squad (4x Halberds and a Psilencer) Elites: 10x Paladin Bomb (5x Halberds, 5x Warding Staves, and 4x Psilencers) Heavy Support 5x Marine Purgation Squad (Warding Stave and 4x Psycannons). librisrouge and Silas7 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted May 20, 2020 Author Share Posted May 20, 2020 You can see with all of the Psilencers (8 in the army) and the Psycannons (5 in the army), that he's fashioned this army list to really take advantage of the Tide of Convergence, more-so than focusing only on leveraging the D2 Smite spam from the Tide of Escalation (although that can certainly play in, as well, and he has taken the mandatory Brother-Captain to ensure that he can leverage that Tide, too). He also has 2 large/full Troops choices with nothing but their Stormbolters (the 10x Marine Terminator and Strike Squads) to best take advantage of a use or two of the Psybolt Ammunition stratagem (probably also within the Tide of Convergence, to really make the use of that stratagem payoff). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 I'm legitimately surprised by the 10 man sword squad. Swords are often seen as the worst possible choices, yet there we are. I wonder if it was because of model availability or if he actually thought that the AP-3 was better than the strength bonus of the halberd, etc. Valerian 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seizeman Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Halberds are better against everything but T6 and T7 with 4+ or better armour, so it makes no sense to use swords. He downgrades the second librarian to a chaplain and Draigo to Voldus, which are not very efficient changes. He also downgrades paladins to terminators to add 5 purgators, which is a very bad trade. You are losing 10 (effectively more) terminator wounds for 5 power amor wounds, and you get 10 less melee attacks. Even if he wanted those extra psycannons, it would be much better to give the psycannons to the paladins and the psilencers to the purgators (and why would you add purgators just to use psilencers?). He could just remove those purgators, upgrade the terminators to paladins, and give those paladins the 4 psycannons instead. I think model availability has played a big role in the list composition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silas7 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 And not a baby carrier in sight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagah Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Swords were the most surprising to me as well. Also noted no SB on the Lib, pts I guess. I wonder how effective he found taking the Chap was rather than a second Lib. I have yet to play with a Chap myself but there seems to be a general agreement hat they are sub-optimal. librisrouge 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted May 20, 2020 Author Share Posted May 20, 2020 I'm legitimately surprised by the 10 man sword squad. Swords are often seen as the worst possible choices, yet there we are. I wonder if it was because of model availability or if he actually thought that the AP-3 was better than the strength bonus of the halberd, etc. I was wondering the same. Model availability would be the obvious choice for us casuals, but I don’t think those serious players let that get in their way; they take the game seriously enough to buy exactly what they think is needed to squeeze out those wins, while hitting the available points right on the nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seizeman Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 What makes you think that every tournament player has unlimited model availability? Warhammer competitive environment is still very casual by any standards, so most tournament players are limited by which models they have and are not that extremely invested that they are willing to purchase more stuff just to be a bit more competitive. Even if they are willing to purchase extra units, they may not have enough time to build/paint them before the tournament. This tournament in particular had a very low attendance and very special circumstances, so it should be even less competitive than the average one. Personally, I like to play very competitively and optimise every little detail, but I would not make a substantial purchase just for some weapon choices. Luckily, GK are my only army and I've been collecting them for more than 15 years, so I rarely run into that problem (my environment is not strict about WYSIWYG when it comes to equipment, anyway). No bolter on the librarians is actually the best choice most of the time. Grey knight lists are extremely tight and being able to save those 4 points is very convenient (I can't afford them in my list either). They can still use grenades :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywrath Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) Am I the only one that is seeing 3 battalions in that list for a combined points count of 2500 (well according to that PDF)? Unless one of those battalions are meant to be switched out as the game demands? Regardless seems pretty interesting though - but I'd probably still take psycannons over psilencers, they are about the same amount of points. Surprised at the use of swords though. Edited May 21, 2020 by Skywrath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted May 21, 2020 Author Share Posted May 21, 2020 Am I the only one that is seeing 3 battalions in that list for a combined points count of 2500 (well according to that PDF)? Unless one of those battalions are meant to be switched out as the game demands? They didn’t do a good job of scanning the document, some of the units were repeated by whoever made the PDF. There was only 1 Apothecary, and one unit of Paladins, as I noted for everyone up in this thread’s second post. Skywrath 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywrath Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Sorry, just saw, disregard that bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 I quite like all the warding staves. Sounds visually appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Lunkhead Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 What makes you think that every tournament player has unlimited model availability? Warhammer competitive environment is still very casual by any standards, so most tournament players are limited by which models they have and are not that extremely invested that they are willing to purchase more stuff just to be a bit more competitive. Even if they are willing to purchase extra units, they may not have enough time to build/paint them before the tournament. This tournament in particular had a very low attendance and very special circumstances, so it should be even less competitive than the average one. Personally, I like to play very competitively and optimise every little detail, but I would not make a substantial purchase just for some weapon choices. Luckily, GK are my only army and I've been collecting them for more than 15 years, so I rarely run into that problem (my environment is not strict about WYSIWYG when it comes to equipment, anyway). No bolter on the librarians is actually the best choice most of the time. Grey knight lists are extremely tight and being able to save those 4 points is very convenient (I can't afford them in my list either). They can still use grenades I don't think anyone is suggesting that every tournament player (or even most) have unlimited model availability. In my experience most competitive/tournament players construct their armies around competition and therefore are very focused to that end. Some have specific figures and squads that they swap out for that purpose. Some have heavily magnetized minis for the same purpose. Other methods are used (counts as, etc.) for the same purpose. In this particular tournament it's nice to see a more traditional GK army take glory. No matter the tournament size, a win is a win Valerian 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 A tad random and off topic sorry. But there has been some polarising opinions on the GK forum lately. It reminds me of when a veteran user "gentlemanloser" used to be around (if anyone remembers). His account is showing +EXCOMMUNICATUS+ Does that mean he was banned? Valerian 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Lunkhead Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 A tad random and off topic sorry. But there has been some polarising opinions on the GK forum lately. It reminds me of when a veteran user "gentlemanloser" used to be around (if anyone remembers). His account is showing +EXCOMMUNICATUS+ Does that mean he was banned? Yes.... +EXCOMMUNICATUS+ means he was banned...… and Yes, a tad random and off topic …… and speaking of 'off topic'...… COVID-19. As you know many states and countries are entering a period of easing lockdowns. They all have different rules and laws covering these procedures, and not everyone is in agreement on any of it. However, this is NOT a COVID-19 forum, but a Warhammer 40,000 forum. Let's keep it focused. librisrouge and Skywrath 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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