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Dawn of Fire


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#101
Xisor

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I think the key difference I like isn't really the presence of many such characters, the well-detailed workings of Cawl's faction(s), but the implication and evoking of them.

Bring to life the idea that the Imperium's messy and complicated and populated by billions of scheming gits who've all got more motivation and more experience of relentless fractal scheming than Guilliman has...

Then you're onto the money.

But just phoning Cawl and having him do it? Pfft.

It's a thin line that I've enjoyed in Guy's previous works on this sort of topic, not limited to the Dark Imperium books, the Great Work and - slightly forgotten - The Beheading.

Truth be told, I'd prefer to see more of it, deeper and thicker and more viscous still.

Not to make the entire series about it, but if there's enough of it dotted through the story, I'll probably lap it up without complaint.

In contrast, look at the Outcast Dead's Blind City - a place of phenomenal importance where Barry The Seeing Astropath could get an audience with Aliyah and Berthold, the senior figures of the City for the ENTIRE IMEPIRUM... Just because.

It didn't make the Imperium seem massive and awesome. It made it seem tiny and also empty.

---

In the Hollow Mountain, towards he end, Wraight used the emptiness of some of the places to really drive home the eeriness and creepiness of what was afoot.

If they manage to do that with the series, not spending too much ime on it, but also keeping it a present, looming "feeling" and "consequence" throughout the series, I'm sure I'd enjoy any old drivel.
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#102
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Be very surprised if we ever get anything related to the Badab Era or Age of Apostasy - if we do it won't revolve around Astartes anyway. There's no way they commission a long series in which they can't showcase Primaris.



#103
JH79

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Ignoring the Heresy Series (Primarchs & Siege) this is the closest thing to TBA we've had in 5 years. If it's a success maybe BL will consider looking at other, more obscure time periods / events to fill in using the Series format... given the sheer scale and length of time the Imperium of man has been fighting to survive, we've barely even scratched the canvas of possible stories / events to be explored.

As is my way, i'm drawing off topic a little, but what are you after (1) Exploring getting from A to Z (which is what HH and TBA did - Well A to B and D-E maybe) or (2) a narrative exploring what is going on over here? I'd much prefer the latter.

 

It's like that series Seaquest DSV vs Star Trek (very loosely) - Do we want to know more about the things we sort of know or do we want to know about things we can't even imagine yet?

 

For me it's all about the characters, but if that ties into an exciting narrative then all the better! :-)

 

I will happily admit that i know less about the background lore of 40K than most people on here, i simply don't have the time to dig into it. Working through a series such as the HH is amazing as everything is new, outside of the big E ending up on the Golden Throne, I was walking blind through each and every book / short story. I think it helps me overlook certain novel pitfalls re legion origins etc as i simply don't know any better, and in a way I'm glad i don't as each and every novel is a chance to learn something new.

 

Obviously I'm not so blinkered as to overlook abysmal writing / planning which is what, in many areas, killed much of any re-read value for probably half of TBA. The series goes from great to shockingly appalling drops of the ball by BL editorial. But I'm still happy for it's finer points and the possibility that it's financial success gave us the Primarchs and Siege series format, and now Dawn of Fire.

 

If BL can give us some great and likable characters who explore the setting and fill in the actual goings on during the Dominus Crusade, and maybe some flashbacks to TGS and Guilliman's rebirth / whooping of the Black Legion's ass then i'll be a happy camper!


Edited by JH79, 31 May 2020 - 12:41 PM.

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#104
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I'd be surprised if we ever see anything like the Badab War...the time for that was probably 15 years ago. There's likely a large number of current 40K players that wouldn't even get a reference to Badab or Huron Blackheart, given how old that fluff is and its development being largely linked to Forge World. Which no matter how much people cry about it here, it is a simple truth FW and its models and rules are well outside the experience of most players.  And more importantly to GW, what models is Badab going to sell? The 'old' Marines that are in the process of being Squatted?


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#105
DukeLeto69

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Be very surprised if we ever get anything related to the Badab Era or Age of Apostasy - if we do it won't revolve around Astartes anyway. There's no way they commission a long series in which they can't showcase Primaris.


You’re probably right but I sooooo hope you are wrong 😊

Edited by DukeLeto69, 31 May 2020 - 05:10 PM.

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#106
Noserenda

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I think there might have been such series' if the War of the beast wasnt such a mess, i suspect this series will be closely modelled on the Horus Heresy as thats done fairly well.



#107
Nemesor Tyriks

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I'm not very enthusiastic about this.  The best BL series I have read have all had one author so it is more consistent.  And Indomitus Era is probably the least interesting period for me.  I'd rather have Scouring or just random periods in the middle of the time between the Heresy and "now," since you can invent characters, get attached, develop them for years/many books, but still kill them off if desired.  Indomitus still has too many established characters they won't ever kill so unless they avoid all the big established names (which they can't seem to do) it'll still feel low-tension and kind of pointless.  If this gets good reviews from people I tend to agree with, I might give it a shot, but for now I'll pass.  If they branch out and have books that aren't about marines, it'll be a lot easier to go for it, but if I want to read about marines I could try to catch up in the Heresy a bit.  

 

I'd be surprised if we ever see anything like the Badab War...the time for that was probably 15 years ago. There's likely a large number of current 40K players that wouldn't even get a reference to Badab or Huron Blackheart, given how old that fluff is and its development being largely linked to Forge World. Which no matter how much people cry about it here, it is a simple truth FW and its models and rules are well outside the experience of most players.  And more importantly to GW, what models is Badab going to sell? The 'old' Marines that are in the process of being Squatted?

There is still no indication old marines are being removed.  And Huron has a model from GW (not just FW), and the Red Corsairs have rules from GW studio (not from FW), so I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here.  


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#108
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I'm not very enthusiastic about this.  The best BL series I have read have all had one author so it is more consistent.  And Indomitus Era is probably the least interesting period for me.  I'd rather have Scouring or just random periods in the middle of the time between the Heresy and "now," since you can invent characters, get attached, develop them for years/many books, but still kill them off if desired.  Indomitus still has too many established characters they won't ever kill so unless they avoid all the big established names (which they can't seem to do) it'll still feel low-tension and kind of pointless.  If this gets good reviews from people I tend to agree with, I might give it a shot, but for now I'll pass.  If they branch out and have books that aren't about marines, it'll be a lot easier to go for it, but if I want to read about marines I could try to catch up in the Heresy a bit.  

 

I'd be surprised if we ever see anything like the Badab War...the time for that was probably 15 years ago. There's likely a large number of current 40K players that wouldn't even get a reference to Badab or Huron Blackheart, given how old that fluff is and its development being largely linked to Forge World. Which no matter how much people cry about it here, it is a simple truth FW and its models and rules are well outside the experience of most players.  And more importantly to GW, what models is Badab going to sell? The 'old' Marines that are in the process of being Squatted?

There is still no indication old marines are being removed.  And Huron has a model from GW (not just FW), and the Red Corsairs have rules from GW studio (not from FW), so I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here.  

Perhaps you missed then that almost all of the rules and fluff developement for Badab was done by Forge World, not GW. And an ancient finecast Huron model is not a vote of commitment to the setting. People keep saying it, but the old marines ARE being shuffled to the background...and the next step is disappearing altogether. 



#109
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The fact that his fluff started in FW means absolutely nothing since GW picked him up and carried it on.  And what I see "people keep saying" is baseless rumors that marines are going away when there is no evidence of it.  If it happens, it'll be years from now, and it still won't mean Huron or the Red Corsairs are going away, so a Badab book/series could still make money beyond book sales.  Carcharodons have never had a single GW model, but they got a series.  It is far from impossible for GW to make a Badab series.  


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#110
Knockagh

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Aaron will write a Badab trilogy it’s written in the stars.
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#111
Petitioner's City

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The fact that his fluff started in FW means absolutely nothing since GW picked him up and carried it on. And what I see "people keep saying" is baseless rumors that marines are going away when there is no evidence of it. If it happens, it'll be years from now, and it still won't mean Huron or the Red Corsairs are going away, so a Badab book/series could still make money beyond book sales. Carcharodons have never had a single GW model, but they got a series. It is far from impossible for GW to make a Badab series.

.

You guys, history. Honestly check the dates and get chronology right before arguing like this smile.png i know it's not easy to find everything, but it's worth knowing 'who said what' when and where, as the Badab War has been part of 40K since almost its start:

 

The Badab war was published on in 1988, in White Dwarf 101 (source: https://wh40k.lexica..._Dwarf_101_(UK))

 

Spoiler

 

As Chaos-aligned marines, Huron and the red corsairs have been around at least since 2nd edition's 1995 Codex Chaos. It may be they appeared or were mentioned in Realms of Chaos (1988 and 1990) too, but I don't have these to hand.

 

Spoiler

 

He did not feature in the 3rd edition codex, nor the 3.5 codex.

 

Spoiler

 

In 2005, White Dwarf featured articles on the War and Red Corsairs in Index Astartes (source: https://wh40k.lexica..._Dwarf_303_(UK))

 

Instead he returned with the 5th edition, which included new fluff building on 2nd edition and is also when his first and current miniature was released, in 2007 (source: http://theminiatures...com/news/727721)

 

Spoiler

 

The Badab Forge World books are from 2010 (source: https://www.belloflo...world-pics.html) and 2011 (https://wh40k.lexica..._War_-_Part_Two). Alongside these was released two Astral Claws miniatures, Lufgt himself and Armanneus Valthex.

In 2013 a digital fluff supplement about Huron was released by BL Digital Editions (http://natfka.blogsp...kheart.html?m=1)

 

The last bits on the Red Corsairs that were new by FW was in Imperial Armour 13, released 2014 (https://wh40k.lexica..._and_the_Damned)

 

As he has a model, Huron has appeared in each successive main Chaos codex since 2007, and played a role in Gathering Storm and other supplements too.


Edited by Petitioner's City, 01 June 2020 - 12:19 PM.

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Cinema itself is a trick of time — still pictures passed through a focused beam of light at 24 frames per second. We are reminded of that in La Jetée...

#112
DukeLeto69

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Now I want a Badab series EVEN MORE!

Really hope BL do not return to having to slavishly support TT game and model releases. They really can do both and keep us “fiction and lore only customers” very happy too!
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#113
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I'm pretty sure that part of the reason for skipping ahead in the timeline was so that they could then go back and have a blank canvas timeframe to write stories in and fill up as they see fit. I'm also pretty sure that the big figures of the era aren't going to be the main characters of these books, so that will give them license to create and kill off new characters as they see fit. 


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#114
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Now I want a Badab series EVEN MORE!

Really hope BL do not return to having to slavishly support TT game and model releases. They really can do both and keep us “fiction and lore only customers” very happy too!


It seems like BL’s trying to go in both directions at once: a big series that connects intimately with the studio’s lore development and imprints like Crime and Horror that have nothing to do with the tabletop. Personally I’m always going to be more interested in the latter, but I’m sure Dawn of Fire will have some gems.

#115
DukeLeto69

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I'm pretty sure that part of the reason for skipping ahead in the timeline was so that they could then go back and have a blank canvas timeframe to write stories in and fill up as they see fit. I'm also pretty sure that the big figures of the era aren't going to be the main characters of these books, so that will give them license to create and kill off new characters as they see fit.


I would say that was A reason and makes sense for BL but I would say THE reason was so they had a “fluffy excuse” for why suddenly loads of players could field loads of Primaris on TT.

As I said above, I don’t like the concept they had 000s sitting on ice. My head cannon has it that the ONLY way to make Primaris is through Rubicon. That means each chapter would over time take the plunge as the level of danger involved slowly reduced with better knowledge etc.

Also means you get the veteran knowledge of old marines transferred into new marines as same ppl.

But that’s me!

#116
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I'm pretty sure that part of the reason for skipping ahead in the timeline was so that they could then go back and have a blank canvas timeframe to write stories in and fill up as they see fit. I'm also pretty sure that the big figures of the era aren't going to be the main characters of these books, so that will give them license to create and kill off new characters as they see fit.


I would say that was A reason and makes sense for BL but I would say THE reason was so they had a “fluffy excuse” for why suddenly loads of players could field loads of Primaris on TT.

As I said above, I don’t like the concept they had 000s sitting on ice. My head cannon has it that the ONLY way to make Primaris is through Rubicon. That means each chapter would over time take the plunge as the level of danger involved slowly reduced with better knowledge etc.

Also means you get the veteran knowledge of old marines transferred into new marines as same ppl.

But that’s me!

 

 

I agree with all of this wholeheartedly. The post-Fall of Cadia lore was so indigestible for me for so many years because I felt like it was presented as the same 10 cereal box heroes deciding the fate of the galaxy. Not my cup of tea in the slightest; even the Horus Heresy had more depth when it ought to be the reverse. Now that guys like Chris Wraight, ADB and Josh Reynolds have sunk their teeth into this exciting new sandbox I'm beginning to really enjoy Guilliman's Return, Biglymarines etc.

 

Spoilers for The Regent's Shadow

 

Spoiler



#117
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Amazon lists the "paperback" (probably actually hardcover) for August 18, and states it's "Book 1 of the brand new 9 part mega-series from Warhammer 40,000."

 


A great darkness has befallen the galaxy, and the armies of Chaos are rampant. To survive, humanity must retaliate and take back what they have lost. By the will of the reborn primarch, Roboute Guilliman, is the Indomitus Crusade launched – a military undertaking that eclipses all others in known history. From the Throneworld of Terra does the Avenging Son hurl his fleets, their mission the very salvation of mankind.

 

As vessels in their thousands burn through the cold void, the attention of Fleetmistress VanLeskus turns to the Machorta Sound – a region under attack by a dreaded Slaughter Host of the Dark Gods. The success of the Indomitus Crusade will be determined by this conflict, and the desperate mission of Battlegroup Saint Aster, led by Space Marine Lieutenant Messinius. Even then it is but a prelude to the forthcoming bloodshed.

 

If it's really only 9 books I'm surprised, marketing made it out to be their next big cash cow. On the other hand, that offers hope for other series about The Scouring or other things (as mentioned in this thread) sooner rather than later.


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#118
cheywood

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Amazon lists the "paperback" (probably actually hardcover) for August 18, and states it's "Book 1 of the brand new 9 part mega-series from Warhammer 40,000."


A great darkness has befallen the galaxy, and the armies of Chaos are rampant. To survive, humanity must retaliate and take back what they have lost. By the will of the reborn primarch, Roboute Guilliman, is the Indomitus Crusade launched – a military undertaking that eclipses all others in known history. From the Throneworld of Terra does the Avenging Son hurl his fleets, their mission the very salvation of mankind.

As vessels in their thousands burn through the cold void, the attention of Fleetmistress VanLeskus turns to the Machorta Sound – a region under attack by a dreaded Slaughter Host of the Dark Gods. The success of the Indomitus Crusade will be determined by this conflict, and the desperate mission of Battlegroup Saint Aster, led by Space Marine Lieutenant Messinius. Even then it is but a prelude to the forthcoming bloodshed.


If it's really only 9 books I'm surprised, marketing made it out to be their next big cash cow. On the other hand, that offers hope for other series about The Scouring or other things (as mentioned in this thread) sooner rather than later.

I saw some interesting wording relating to this on the community site:

The big difference here is that the Horus Heresy was telling a tale pretty much everybody knew. With Dawn of Fire, the first part of what will be the immense, sprawling epic of the Indomitus Crusade, we’ve created a new story. That means you don’t know what’s going to happen. For me, that’s amazingly exciting.’


Seems like Dawn of Fire’s possibly telling only the first part of the Indomitus Crusade and other story arcs, with different names, will follow on later? That would explain why BL keep saying we don’t know what’ll happen.
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#119
b1soul

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Yup, sounds like DoF is a nine-parter...but the Indomitus Crusade could span multiple nine-parters or the like

#120
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Oh man this pushes pretty much ever single one of my OCD buttons... 9... why 9... why not a nice even number like 8, 10 or 12... hmmm, maybe it will actually be 12 assuming they tack on the Dark Imperium trilogy at the ass end of the series... answers, we need answers for the sake of aesthetic book shelves everywhere! sweat.gif



#121
DarkChaplain

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Because 9 is divisible by 3. With Haley not being the only author, but supervising, we're most assuredly looking at 3 trilogies, following different narrative arcs rather than every book being about the same blokes and blokettes.


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#122
JH79

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Because 9 is divisible by 3. With Haley not being the only author, but supervising, we're most assuredly looking at 3 trilogies, following different narrative arcs rather than every book being about the same blokes and blokettes.

But... but... *hangs head* i suppose your "logic" makes sense smile.png


Edited by JH79, 02 June 2020 - 09:58 AM.


#123
cheywood

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I wonder who the other authors are. Haley presumably is going to write 2 or 3 books given his rapid pace, and at 9 novels total I’m going to prematurely count out ADB/Abnett/Wraight given they’ve got Heresy novels and their own series to work on in the next few years. So let’s assume something like 5-6 authors total, with a few doing multiple books. Here’s my wildly incorrect guess:

Guy Haley
Gav Thorpe
Justin D Hill
Guy Haley
David Annandale
John French
Gav Thorpe
Andy Clark
Guy Haley

Edited by cheywood, 02 June 2020 - 11:11 AM.


#124
Frater Antodeniel

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Something that i think could/will be a great plot to work around, and one that is very important in the 40K setting and the Indomitus Crusade is... Belisarius Cawl VS Oud Oudia Raskian (Mars current Fabricator General).

 

Does Belisarius Cawl "progressist" faction is currently "ruling" the Mechanicum, making him the true ruler of the acting Mechanicum, with the current Fabricator General being a tinpot ruler with little power ?

 

Are Belisarius Cawl and Oud Oudia Raskian "friends", "neutrals" or "enemies" to each other ?

 

How one action is supported or countered by the other ? Is there a sleeping schism running through the Mechanicum between "progressists" and "traditionalists" that only await to explode like the Moira Schism ? (Is Belisarius Cawl a Moirae supporter/believer ?)

 

Belisarius Cawl introduction into the 40K Lore and the many changes he delivered for, notably, the Adeptus Astartes, have raised a lot of question regarding his faction and its reaction towards such changes.

 

I believe that a whole novel to cover this plot (and others sub-plots affiliated) would make sense. (Why not a good old trip to a besieged forge world for a technological fight with the Necrons for the right to exploit the Noctilith beneath ? ^^.)


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#125
Captain Antargo

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I wouldn't mind if Guy Haley writes the whole series, I find his writing very accurate and it just works for me. 


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