SkimaskMohawk Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 The real kicker is core allowing to gift rerolls, strats, and prayers. They also have some light chaf clearing from storm bolter+melee and can take the grenade. Tiger9gamer 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 "Primaris lieutenant" is a boring meme. A walking chaplain with extra litanies is almost always better in that slot for BT. If you want wound rerolls, activate the stratagem on redemptor could be an option. The big base is good for aura. Agreed, except I have to pay a CP for that strat. And I can still do it, even with a Lt., to get extra coverage. Still, I think you guys have convinced me. Tiger9gamer 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 hey, I am going to use a lieutenant when I drop my LRC for VVets with jump packs. Apothecary just can't keep up, so I gotta rely on Divine protection. Going to give him the crusaders helm too. The real kicker is core allowing to gift rerolls, strats, and prayers. They also have some light chaf clearing from storm bolter+melee and can take the grenade. oh yea, that's right... I may just get more attack bikes. I really do want to have a full on templar blitzkrieg, but all the tanks don't really seem to good still. Maybe sometime I could do it for fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Do attack bikes really receive much for being core in a BT army? BT don't have tools like ravenwing bike apothecary. You may often need to move attack bikes out of reach of buffing heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Do attack bikes really receive much for being core in a BT army? BT don't have tools like ravenwing bike apothecary. You may often need to move attack bikes out of reach of buffing heroes. Well you can deploy them close to pick up full reroll and then move them out on their own. You can then use push and obsec to snatch objectives due to core. And if you have to play them a little tighter to your clump, then all the buffs and auras can be leveraged. Tiger9gamer and BLACK BLΠFLY 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) It is beyond astonishing to me that Space Marines get several popular-model nerfs (Bike Chappy, Dreads) when Space Marines aren't placing, but of the big 4, both Drukhari and AdMech make it through unscathed. Anyway, going to local tourney saturday. This is before the latest points changes take affect, so I'm bringing: Helbrecht Biker Chappy (divine protection, remorseless persecution, hate), MoS, T-Bones, Wise Orator Primaris Lt. 5 Ints 10 Ints (auto bolt rifles) 15 Pr. Crusader 3x red dreads (MPI, 2x SB, IRP, OGC) 1 relic contemptor dread (2x twin volkerite helverins, cyclone) 5x BGV (heinman, feast, sword of judgment) Pr. Apothecary (aurilian shroud) 1998 pts / 8 starting cp's 4 characters 35 infantry 4 dreadnoughts thoughts? good luck vs vehicles Edited January 25, 2022 by noigrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 11 macro plasma incinerator shots per turn should do fine if someone has the temerity to bring a vehicle. I'm far more worried about custodes jetbikes. BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) Speaking of lists, I may be getting a leviathan dread this weekend. While not the best I am trying to play in a more casual setting, so I came up with this list. Kinda stuck with WYSIWYG so leviathan load out will stick ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Black Templars) [100 PL, 1,978pts, 6CP] ++ + Configuration + Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Chapter Selection: Black Templars Detachment Command Cost Gametype: Matched + Stratagems + Strategem: Relics of the Chapter [-2CP]: 2x Number of Extra Relics Captain [6 PL, 140pts, -1CP]: Tannhauser's Bones, Jump Pack, Master of Arms, Storm shield, Stratagem: Heir of Sigismund, The Imperium's Sword, Thunder hammer, Warlord Primaris Chaplain on Bike [7 PL, 150pts, -1CP]: 1. Litany of Divine Protection, 5. Fervent Acclamation, Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Litany of Hate, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, Adamantine Mantle, Wise Orator Crusader Squad [5 PL, 100pts] . 3x Initiate w/ Chainsword: 3x Astartes Chainsword, 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Frag & Krak grenades . Initiate w/ Heavy or Melee Weapon: Power axe . Sword Brother: Boltgun, Power axe Crusader Squad [5 PL, 100pts] . 3x Initiate w/ Chainsword: 3x Astartes Chainsword, 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Frag & Krak grenades . Initiate w/ Heavy or Melee Weapon: Power sword . Sword Brother: Boltgun, Power sword Crusader Squad [6 PL, 115pts]: Bones of Mordred . 3x Initiate w/ Chainsword: 3x Astartes Chainsword, 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Frag & Krak grenades . Initiate w/ Heavy or Melee Weapon: Power axe . Sword Brother: 2x Lightning Claw Crusader Squad [5 PL, 100pts] . 3x Initiate w/ Chainsword: 3x Astartes Chainsword, 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Frag & Krak grenades . Initiate w/ Heavy or Melee Weapon: Power axe . Sword Brother: Boltgun, Power axe Leviathan Dreadnought [13 PL, 220pts, -1CP]: 2x Heavy Flamers, Grav-flux bombard . Leviathan siege claw Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 190pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon Vanguard Veteran Squad [15 PL, 333pts, -1CP]: Fist of Balthus, Jump Pack . Vanguard Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer . Vanguard Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Power fist, Storm shield, Stratagem: Champion of the Feast Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 140pts]: Multi-melta . Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter Land Speeder Typhoons [6 PL, 110pts]: Land Speeder Typhoon Vindicator [7 PL, 140pts]: Vindicator siege shield Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]: Storm bolter Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]: Storm bolter ++ Total: [100 PL, 6CP, 1,998pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe Edited January 26, 2022 by Tiger9gamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) The beauty of the Levi dread is you just run him off on his own without character support. Granted, probably overpriced now for what he brings and what he lost, but he'll still soak up a lot of shooting with his 2+ and 14 wounds. They should have kept him at T8 though (he's built like a brick :cuss house); losing Core was still enough of a concession. Edited January 27, 2022 by Marshal Mattias Tiger9gamer, BLACK BLΠFLY and Khornestar 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 The beauty of the Levi dread is you just run him off on his own without character support. Granted, probably overpriced now for what he brings and what he lost, but he'll still soak up a lot of shooting with his 2+ and 14 wounds. They should have kept him at T8 though (he's built like a brick sh!thouse); losing Core was still enough of a concession. Ya, i am excited to try it. Finally deciding to retire my LRC… it’s not even fun to play casually, and it sucks. It just does… nothing really. This game I just played it killed 7 orks and basically nothing else. It gets wounded so easily even with a 5+ save, it degrades way too fast to really do anything nice with it like move forward, and it just gets tar pitted easily. I am very sad to see it go this way but just… blah. also got very sad when a squad of ork squig riders and beast boys just ran over my vanguard vets. Those things are no joke, and I played dumb. Almost counted the vanguard vets out, especially when I was down to the champion of the feast w/ fist, but I was rolling godly on invuln saves for my heroes and eventually got bathe your blade because of him and a dying captain. which comes to my next decision… since I am switching to jump pack VVets, should I just bite the bullet and take a leutanant with jump pack instead? I am already taking a biker chaplain, and don’t have enough money for a jump pack chappy just yet… Khornestar and Sword Brother Adelard 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Why vanvet units need lieutenant? Their current staple weapon is lighting claw, which reroll wound rolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) Why vanvet units need lieutenant? Their current staple weapon is lighting claw, which reroll wound rolls.yeah a capi would be far more useful I think your listlackd antihorde so I would swap the plasma for a heavy onslaught and throw in some intercessors Edited January 27, 2022 by noigrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 I'd have thought Jump chappy more useful. Also, I hear you on the LRC front. I really wish people would stop insisting that newbies have to buy them or not be 'proper' Black Templars. It's so poor in game that it's just making people waste money on something that just isn't fun. I hate that that is true btw, but acceptance is the first step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 I'd have thought Jump chappy more useful. Also, I hear you on the LRC front. I really wish people would stop insisting that newbies have to buy them or not be 'proper' Black Templars. It's so poor in game that it's just making people waste money on something that just isn't fun. I hate that that is true btw, but acceptance is the first step. Are BT community that poisonous in your country/area? Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 It's not a local thing. It's everywhere. Look at any post in the larger Facebook groups about what a 'fluffy' BT army is, and they all invariably say LRCs are needed. A theory of mine is that one of the big downsides about not having any new BT books for 4.5 editions was there was no update as to what a classic BT army was. The perception got stuck in 4th ed mode. I'm hoping that the supplement, and future supplements will stop this idea. Lord Blackwood 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 It's not a local thing. It's everywhere. Look at any post in the larger Facebook groups about what a 'fluffy' BT army is, and they all invariably say LRCs are needed. A theory of mine is that one of the big downsides about not having any new BT books for 4.5 editions was there was no update as to what a classic BT army was. The perception got stuck in 4th ed mode. I'm hoping that the supplement, and future supplements will stop this idea. >LoL i haven't got a land raider in my life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 I don't have one, also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) I'm a strange one since I didn't even have LRC's in my old classic non-primaris crusade (instead having 2 spartans...) With my primaris crusade I have no reason to get anything with Land Raider in the name, though the situation with the primaris hover bricks isn't exactly ideal either. Edited January 27, 2022 by Reinhard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 My BT army is 100% Primaris (barring one relic contemptor dread with twin volkite helverins), so that, combined with the fact they are hot garbage, = there's not a chance in hell I would ever waste money or points on Land Raiders. I have two LR's (one crusader, one redeemer) for my Iron Hands, which is about the only chapter that even has a chance at making them work. Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Why vanvet units need lieutenant? Their current staple weapon is lighting claw, which reroll wound rolls. because my to wound rolls are freaking abysmal no matter what dice I use, and I need something to spread it out among the army including dreads, crusaders, attack bikes ect. I also already got a captain and chaplain. Also taking Thunderhammers and the Fist of Balthas and would like them to wound with my abysmal rolls The problem with the LRC is that it's not even that good at anti-infantry, at least against orks! it's still only str 4, and as I said my wound rolls are harsh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 primaris are good antihorde but lack cheap antitank change my mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 so... how does master of arms work exactly? I thought it meant got to fight at the same time as charging units, but now I am not so sure. The rules only say that charging units fight first, while the WLT says I fight at the start.Does this mean that I will be able to take my swings before charging units because I fight at the start? if I have him and another unit charge, does it mean he fights first before anyone else and then I get to pick a unit as well to swing first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 so... how does master of arms work exactly? I thought it meant got to fight at the same time as charging units, but now I am not so sure. The rules only say that charging units fight first, while the WLT says I fight at the start. Does this mean that I will be able to take my swings before charging units because I fight at the start? if I have him and another unit charge, does it mean he fights first before anyone else and then I get to pick a unit as well to swing first? It means that he fights at the same time as chargers or other fight first abilities. So it means that if he charges 2 of your units and your Master of Arms is one of them, he can pick one unit to fight with before it's the Master of Arms' turn. All "fight first" abilities mean the same thing, but you still have to follow the sequence of simultaneous fighting. Tiger9gamer and Brother Kraskor 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) primaris are good antihorde but lack cheap antitank change my mind Eradicators say hello? 135 for 6 melta shots... 190 pts. gets you 12 T5, 3+, wounds and 10 melta shots ((3 melta rifles + 1 multmelta)x2) ~ same price gets you 10 T4, 3+ wounds and 10 melta shots (4 multi-melta + arm cher) from a devastator squad. Also gets signum. Pretty close to same offensive output. Devs can go in Drop Pod, but Erads are more durable off the starting line. Edited January 27, 2022 by 9x19 Parabellum BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 so... how does master of arms work exactly? I thought it meant got to fight at the same time as charging units, but now I am not so sure. The rules only say that charging units fight first, while the WLT says I fight at the start. Does this mean that I will be able to take my swings before charging units because I fight at the start? if I have him and another unit charge, does it mean he fights first before anyone else and then I get to pick a unit as well to swing first? It means that he fights at the same time as chargers or other fight first abilities. So it means that if he charges 2 of your units and your Master of Arms is one of them, he can pick one unit to fight with before it's the Master of Arms' turn. All "fight first" abilities mean the same thing, but you still have to follow the sequence of simultaneous fighting. ah got it, Thanks! I was worried I was cheating myself out of stuff. still, like to take it on my TH/SS captain, if only to have that extra swing, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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