9th Ed. trailer: A hint at a future Cadian redesign?

[Beaky Brigade]

So while the Sisters, Vanguard Primaris and NewCrons were the stars of the 9th edition reveal trailer today we did get a brief look at some guardsmen in all their Cadian Green redshirtyness.

While there could be artistic licence employed in the trailer, the Space Marine and Sisters characters did look very much like clunky ported miniature designs, and the Vanguards and Crons especially will most likely get miniature counterparts in the near future.

From the few shots the guardsmen appear in it's possible to see a few subtle changes on the minis:

Extra armour (for all the good it does): They have vambraces on their wrists and full length greaves protecting their shins and knees

Crash diet: The proportions are a lot less blocky than the current miniature designs, and the bulky ear protectors are almost deleted. This could just be necessary artistic licence however.

Guardswomen: While they are not a new thing in the lore, miniature support has only recently come in a widespread way. After the Blackstone fortress traitors included warrior women it seems inevitable any future guard kits will include those as well.

Stowage and gas mask: The trooper on the right superficially looks like a Kasrkin but his weapon seems to be the same as the other Guardsmen. Possibly an option in a new infantry kit? The backpack design looks very unique.

I may be reading too much into all this, but I would welcome this more streamlined design for the Cadian pattern if it is the future. I've always had to go for other regiments due to my dislike of the current minis. It seems like evolution instead of revolution is on the cards?

[WarriorFish]

It's impossible to know, as you say this could easily be artistic license - the lasguns are missing their aquilas for example. The Guard kits could do with a spruce up - Catachan all the more, but as ever the whims of GW are not for mere mortals to understand (or GW, probably?). If there are to be new Guard kits I wouldn't expect them soon what with the other model bits we've seen already as they will likely consume the time and air waves.

 

Maybe next year is a safe guess, rather than late this year? I expect there to be a scale difference compared to the older miniatures though, so hopefully it's not too much for those of us with lots already. Evolution is what I'd like to see, and the new Necron Warriors we've seen support that at least. Whether we see other new Guard kits and regiments... that may be the real question ;)

[Hiroitchi]

Or just cannon fodder so it could make the scene look more epic. However it would have been grand to see more Guard fight rather than use them as a prop piece.

[Captain Incompetence]

Interesting little detail is they were wearing the Cadian Gate logo on their shoulderpad and they also had a skull in their squad number, indicating they were part of a command squad. However, the woman did not have purple eyes, as all purebred Cadians ought to have. Is that little detail from Cadian lore retconned? Or were these "Cadians" from a Cadian colony outside the Cadia system? If so, why are they wearing the Cadian gate logo? Has it gotten a new meaning after the fall of Cadia? Or is this just a case of the animators using their artistic license and not fully grasping the lore behind the symbols they used?

 

In any case, I wouldn't read too much into the trailer overall. I'm assuming they just wanted to showcase the Imperium fighting off the Necrons with the focus being on the new Adeptus Sororitas and ofcourse the posterboys of the Imperium fighting off the Xenos. I'd definitely like them to update the Cadian sculpts in 9th edition though cause they're quite old at this point and everytime I pick up a box, I end up frustrated at the very thick mould lines running all over the models .

[LameBeard]

Interesting little detail is they were wearing the Cadian Gate logo on their shoulderpad and they also had a skull in their squad number, indicating they were part of a command squad. However, the woman did not have purple eyes, as all purebred Cadians ought to have. Is that little detail from Cadian lore retconned?

I'm pretty sure Lorgar and co wiped out all the original purple-eyed Cadians. They had served their purpose and they didn't want to leave witnesses. Cadia was later re-colonised with humans.

[Arkaniss]

Or just cannon fodder so it could make the scene look more epic. However it would have been grand to see more Guard fight rather than use them as a prop piece.

Alas, the perennial problem with GW and their representation of the IG... unless you're reading the IG codex where they are allowed some wins

 

I think it's just artistic license with the video and not a hint towards new Cadian models. Necron and Primaris are the focus for now, perhaps in the not too distant future there will be new IG models. GW like to shout from the rooftops at the moment about how they've listened to community feedback and I think enough people have been asking about new greatcoat guard for example! You never know...!

[Lucerne]

GW has probably been holding cadian 3D designs hostage for years at this point going by the Blackstone "obvious tweaked cadians" designs.

 

Note also the arm armour that some of the Blackstone mooks have.

[RolandTHTG]

The right hand trooper is likely based on the FW Cadian hostile environment pack. https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Cadian-Hostile-Environment-Troops-Conversion-Set

 

Of course, there are just enough changes from the FW models that it could be a new reference model, or just artist interpretation.

[HallofStovokor]

I think that you're reading too much into the video. The Guardsmen were in it for less than 10 seconds. If they were planning on a major Guardsmen update, they would have announced it with the rest of the previews. The whole point is to get people pumped up to purchase new stuff and a revamped imperial guard line would make money hand over fist. People went nuts for the limited release of vostroyans a year and a half ago.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I hate to say it, but I really doubt that we'll see a Cadian redesign anytime soon. Honestly, I hope that GW doesn't do a Cadian redesign. I'd rather see them devote their efforts to plastic vostroyans, valhallans, mordians, and steel legion.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Ulrik_Ironfist

[Hfran Morkai]

I hate to say it, but I really doubt that we'll see a Cadian redesign anytime soon. Honestly, I hope that GW doesn't do a Cadian redesign. I'd rather see them devote their efforts to plastic vostroyans, valhallans, mordians, and steel legion.

See out of them I'd rather see Cadians. Admittedly they could retcon the part about "Cadian pattern" gear being the majority of Guard equipment throughout the Imperium but I still really dig Cadian aesthetics (primarily Kasrkin).

 

I'd love to see them all (especially Vostroyan, when they came out I was in love but couldn't afford a new army at the time) but Cadians are somewhat my favourite, boring as that may be to some.

[GreenScorpion]

I am guessing the issue with getting new models for AM/IG has little to do with lack of design options, but more to do with profitability.
The reason we are getting so many releases of low unit count armies based on elite forces is because they sell well (reason we have X number of SM armies on the store). This is somewhat based also on the fact some people might see Guard as the lowliest of the low, but economically I think the major reasons are the following:

• An infantry regiment following the background stories would be a horde army;
• Horde armies require a high number of soldiers, which easily get expensive unless the cost of the kit is low;
• Even if the cost is low enough, a horde army takes more time to paint and assemble;
• A high model count makes transportation of models more difficult;
• A high model count turns playing a tabletop game into a chore (moving lots of models, lots of dice rolls...);

Many of the above points have been part of the reason why armies like the Imperial Knights became quite common (low model count, looks nice even from the distance, easier to play with). If you look at kits from factions with a lore mostly based on horde armies, you will see that they haven't really gotten recent model updates to their horde units. Most people end up building somewhat more on top of the elite or vehicles in most armies that would normally be a horde, because frankly that is typically the best option.

 

While I agree that many players would pay handsomely for new kits for the Imperial Guard, especially for kits for specialized regiments, like Steel Legion, Vostroyans..., it just seems that on the spreadsheet at GW marines are mostly winning the crunching of numbers. I really liked the Blackstone Fortress traitor guardsmen, but I doubt that will be the base of a new faction or IG update in the short/medium term.

[Lord Marshal]

 

Interesting little detail is they were wearing the Cadian Gate logo on their shoulderpad and they also had a skull in their squad number, indicating they were part of a command squad. However, the woman did not have purple eyes, as all purebred Cadians ought to have. Is that little detail from Cadian lore retconned?

I'm pretty sure Lorgar and co wiped out all the original purple-eyed Cadians. They had served their purpose and they didn't want to leave witnesses. Cadia was later re-colonised with humans.

 

 

'Modern' Cadians do still have violet eyes, it's a trait that comes with living in such close proximity to the Eye of Terra. 

 

It's just one of those minor lore tidbits that's buried just deep enough for them to forget/not know about it when they made the cinematic, especially for a two-second shot of fodder that's only there to show how 'badass' the power armour guys/gals are.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Lord Marshal

[Warhead01]

I am guessing the issue with getting new models for AM/IG has little to do with lack of design options, but more to do with profitability.

The reason we are getting so many releases of low unit count armies based on elite forces is because they sell well (reason we have X number of SM armies on the store). This is somewhat based also on the fact some people might see Guard as the lowliest of the low, but economically I think the major reasons are the following:

• An infantry regiment following the background stories would be a horde army;
• Horde armies require a high number of soldiers, which easily get expensive unless the cost of the kit is low;
• Even if the cost is low enough, a horde army takes more time to paint and assemble;
• A high model count makes transportation of models more difficult;
• A high model count turns playing a tabletop game into a chore (moving lots of models, lots of dice rolls...);

Many of the above points have been part of the reason why armies like the Imperial Knights became quite common (low model count, looks nice even from the distance, easier to play with). If you look at kits from factions with a lore mostly based on horde armies, you will see that they haven't really gotten recent model updates to their horde units. Most people end up building somewhat more on top of the elite or vehicles in most armies that would normally be a horde, because frankly that is typically the best option.

 

While I agree that many players would pay handsomely for new kits for the Imperial Guard, especially for kits for specialized regiments, like Steel Legion, Vostroyans..., it just seems that on the spreadsheet at GW marines are mostly winning the crunching of numbers. I really liked the Blackstone Fortress traitor guardsmen, but I doubt that will be the base of a new faction or IG update in the short/medium term.

I was thinking the other day that GW should give up on producing X number of armies and only publish rules for them opening the doors for the 3rd party produce and creating some kind of frame work for licencing, in a limited fashion. Where t=it's like perks for the 3rd party to advertise and stuff through the WD. But with the way IG has so many possible models this could be a way to let GW wash their hands of it if they wanted to reduce their product lines.  I still recall when they has some kind of a statement allowing any and all non GW models that could count as guard count as guard in tournaments. Wish I still had that in writing. 

 

More on topic I guess they're uniforms almost like they have extra armour. Not very excited about new Cadians as I already feel the models currently are too large and I doubt they will shrink them back down to 28MM models. If they do new guardsmen I hope they are mostly limited in how they are built, as in the head, arms and equipment are the only things you glue on to the body. Not for all of the models but the majority. 

I'm not sure what a squad costs currently but with the current prices as I recall they they cost too much for too few. And I feel GW should go the other direction and sell no less than 30 in a box and for as close to what they are currently charging for the box they have now. 

Or something like increments of 10 with a price reduction based on how many you buy. Bulk discounts. 

 

[GreenScorpion]

Things like the closed karskin like helmet which was used on this video were also used by Relic on all games I have played from them from the Warhammer 40k universe (Dawn of War 1 and 2, as well as Space Marine), so I am guessing that as referred it was likely just artistic preference.

@Warhead01: GW has shown so far no desire to make any bulk boxes for 40k miniatures, some companies do it (Mantic has some horde units with a slight discount mostly on Kings of War and Anvil used to have the platoon builder, for example). The only bulk discounts with GW is buying large boxes or making your own discounted package through retailer discounts.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I am guessing the issue with getting new models for AM/IG has little to do with lack of design options, but more to do with profitability.

The reason we are getting so many releases of low unit count armies based on elite forces is because they sell well (reason we have X number of SM armies on the store). This is somewhat based also on the fact some people might see Guard as the lowliest of the low, but economically I think the major reasons are the following:

• An infantry regiment following the background stories would be a horde army;
• Horde armies require a high number of soldiers, which easily get expensive unless the cost of the kit is low;
• Even if the cost is low enough, a horde army takes more time to paint and assemble;
• A high model count makes transportation of models more difficult;
• A high model count turns playing a tabletop game into a chore (moving lots of models, lots of dice rolls...);

Many of the above points have been part of the reason why armies like the Imperial Knights became quite common (low model count, looks nice even from the distance, easier to play with). If you look at kits from factions with a lore mostly based on horde armies, you will see that they haven't really gotten recent model updates to their horde units. Most people end up building somewhat more on top of the elite or vehicles in most armies that would normally be a horde, because frankly that is typically the best option.

 

While I agree that many players would pay handsomely for new kits for the Imperial Guard, especially for kits for specialized regiments, like Steel Legion, Vostroyans..., it just seems that on the spreadsheet at GW marines are mostly winning the crunching of numbers. I really liked the Blackstone Fortress traitor guardsmen, but I doubt that will be the base of a new faction or IG update in the short/medium term.

I agree with you. Totally. Horde armies are for the truly dedicated, and even the most staunch guard player probably has at least one SM army...

[Warhead01]

@Warhead01: GW has shown so far no desire to make any bulk boxes for 40k miniatures, some companies do it (Mantic has some horde units with a slight discount mostly on Kings of War and Anvil used to have the platoon builder, for example). The only bulk discounts with GW is buying large boxes or making your own discounted package through retailer discounts.

Yep. I think they need to "show some love" to their players and doing that could be very good for business over all.  I don't expect it will happen. We've seen the number of models in boxes go down as the prices go up, off and on for years. That's not going to stop.  Seeing the bulk discounts from other companies these last few months just blew my mind! 

My self I don't plan to buy any more new kits than I find I actually have to for my current and future projects. But I have moved off to the garage gamer/home hammer with no real plans for anything GW proper events related. 

I think getting older does that though. I would rather just do all the projects I have dreamed about over the years now that I am able rather than just buy a kit and put it together. 

It doesn't really save me any money but I am getting what I want which is sadly unavailable from GW. But it is what it is I guess. 

[zero88]

Like others said, I think we would have seen something if they had reworked the range. One of my biggest hesitations to come back to guard is that literally the entire plastic range (minus the command squad box) are the same as when I first started 40k (with Guard) about 17 years ago (3.5 codex).

[Captain Incompetence]

While I agree that many players would pay handsomely for new kits for the Imperial Guard, especially for kits for specialized regiments, like Steel Legion, Vostroyans..., it just seems that on the spreadsheet at GW marines are mostly winning the crunching of numbers. I really liked the Blackstone Fortress traitor guardsmen, but I doubt that will be the base of a new faction or IG update in the short/medium term.

You know, I used to believe the same thing, but then I actually started looking around in my flgs and realised that, atleast here, the Guard is quite a popular army choice. Sure, there aren't a lot of players who can put more than 2000 points on the table, but most of them can atleast field 1500 - 1750pt games with them. And with the popularity of the Loyal 32 in the tournament scene, I'm assuming the old trusty Cadian Shocktrooper boxes probably made GW quite a dime in the last few years. As much as Primaris? Definitely not, but I would be surprised if the guard wasn't in the top 5 most popular armies in 40K.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Captain Incompetence

[War Angel]

If they do want to make a new cadian box (maybe just to add a few new ideas/female troopers) I hope they do it soon. I specifically bought a case to carry 300 guardsmen, and made a list to fit 300 guardsmen. I’m only getting .... 300 guardsmen)

[sairence]

 

 

 

 

Interesting little detail is they were wearing the Cadian Gate logo on their shoulderpad and they also had a skull in their squad number, indicating they were part of a command squad. However, the woman did not have purple eyes, as all purebred Cadians ought to have. Is that little detail from Cadian lore retconned?

I'm pretty sure Lorgar and co wiped out all the original purple-eyed Cadians. They had served their purpose and they didn't want to leave witnesses. Cadia was later re-colonised with humans.

'Modern' Cadians do still have violet eyes, it's a trait that comes with living in such close proximity to the Eye of Terra.

 

It's just one of those minor lore tidbits that's buried just deep enough for them to forget/not know about it when they made the cinematic, especially for a two-second shot of fodder that's only there to show how 'badass' the power armour guys/gals are.

It's worth remembering that in the current timeline the fall of Cadia was some time ago and that any "new" Cadian recruits would be from worlds settled by survivors. It's not unreasonable to assume that the mutation that caused the violet eyes is not present in everyone any longer, be it either through mixing with non-Cadians or just because it's become some kind of recessive gene.

 

I wouldn't read too much into it for a range update. The Guard is always there in some fashion, usually to get overrun and saved, same as in this one.

Edited May 25, 2020 by sairence

[GreenScorpion]

 

While I agree that many players would pay handsomely for new kits for the Imperial Guard, especially for kits for specialized regiments, like Steel Legion, Vostroyans..., it just seems that on the spreadsheet at GW marines are mostly winning the crunching of numbers. I really liked the Blackstone Fortress traitor guardsmen, but I doubt that will be the base of a new faction or IG update in the short/medium term.

You know, I used to believe the same thing, but then I actually started looking around in my flgs and realised that, atleast here, the Guard is quite a popular army choice. Sure, there aren't a lot of players who can put more than 2000 points on the table, but most of them can atleast field 1500 - 1750pt games with them. And with the popularity of the Loyal 32 in the tournament scene, I'm assuming the old trusty Cadian Shocktrooper boxes probably made GW quite a dime in the last few years. As much as Primaris? Definitely not, but I would be surprised if the guard wasn't in the top 5 most popular armies in 40K.

 

I didn't meant to say guardsmen are unpopular in any way. I suspect IG kits give GW lots of money even with the constant price increases.

I just meant that investing in new kits is what doesn't sound so profitable for GW.

Why update the guardsmen when Primaris for X chapter sell even better and people are still buying lots of the old kits from IG?

It was more along those lines that I was thinking.

Old kits, even with the renewal of molds might be extremely profitable, GW knows they sell. New kits might be disliked by the players and not sell, despite heavy investment to get them designed, molded and produced.

Known reward versus risk of potential reward are the things where some of the armies are worse than Space Marines.

[War Angel]

Was it said somewhere that “everything in this video is getting a model”? Someone on YouTube (either mordian glory or Auspex tactics?) mentioned that.

 

If that’s the case and they did say that, then I highly doubt that the three guardsmen, even with their short screen time, were put into the video by mistake, and I doubt they ruined the “everything gets a model” by doing so....

 

Maybe not this year, and I’ll be ok if they don’t, but if they said that, I think they plan to do something.

[Warhead01]

 

 

While I agree that many players would pay handsomely for new kits for the Imperial Guard, especially for kits for specialized regiments, like Steel Legion, Vostroyans..., it just seems that on the spreadsheet at GW marines are mostly winning the crunching of numbers. I really liked the Blackstone Fortress traitor guardsmen, but I doubt that will be the base of a new faction or IG update in the short/medium term.

You know, I used to believe the same thing, but then I actually started looking around in my flgs and realised that, atleast here, the Guard is quite a popular army choice. Sure, there aren't a lot of players who can put more than 2000 points on the table, but most of them can atleast field 1500 - 1750pt games with them. And with the popularity of the Loyal 32 in the tournament scene, I'm assuming the old trusty Cadian Shocktrooper boxes probably made GW quite a dime in the last few years. As much as Primaris? Definitely not, but I would be surprised if the guard wasn't in the top 5 most popular armies in 40K.

 

I didn't meant to say guardsmen are unpopular in any way. I suspect IG kits give GW lots of money even with the constant price increases.

I just meant that investing in new kits is what doesn't sound so profitable for GW.

Why update the guardsmen when Primaris for X chapter sell even better and people are still buying lots of the old kits from IG?

It was more along those lines that I was thinking.

Old kits, even with the renewal of molds might be extremely profitable, GW knows they sell. New kits might be disliked by the players and not sell, despite heavy investment to get them designed, molded and produced.

Known reward versus risk of potential reward are the things where some of the armies are worse than Space Marines.

 

It's a numbers game for sure. I think the question is, just how profitable is Victoria Miniatures. How much stock do they push out vs not and just how large is their operation. If the numbers look good and can be scaled up to Gw's level of size I think it's very possible to get more new Guard models. If there is a want and if GW can create such a buzz and a need to feed. Guard is competing, I would think, with all the other armies for space in the product line. Yes they want to sell guard but how do they turn the sales up past 11. 

I think there is a lot of things they could do but I'm no expert. And shouldn't really give medical advice.  

 

Honestly the Guard would really fly off the shelves if they got rid of the 60MM bases mandatory for heavy weapons. Those should drop in size down to 50MM or just two model next to each other in the case of things like missile launchers. I think that would fix AM and drastically improve sales. 

I'm just making a joke if you couldn't tell.  ( also wishing.) 

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

 

New kits might be disliked by the players and not sell, despite heavy investment to get them designed, molded and produced.

The New Militarum tempestus kits were very unpopular for a while because they didn't mesh with any of the other guard regiment aesthetics. Maybe vostroyans, but not really. Standalone the MT kits are cool especially if you want a more baroque feel (like inquisitors, or going along with space marines) but it just doesn't fit with cadians or catachans.