So, what's the point of assault Intercessors?

[Irbis]

Let's see. On one side, they are nearly identical to Reivers - 3+ save, 3 attacks unit. Except, Reivers actually have tools to do melee work, namely masks and grenades helping them to get into melee and cause extra casualties, plus movement options helping with positioning. AI lack both. Really, all Reivers needed to be OK was access to melee options and making their stuff cheaper across the board to match other Primaris.

 

On the other, we have regular Intercessors, who also can gain 3 attacks with a stratagem, and we know there will be more CPs in play now so their relative upgrade cost will be smaller. On top of that, they will have far superior shooting phase - and, given the nooptionosis disease virtually every other Primaris unit has, if the AI lack the melee weapon options for no reason too (which I fear they will, just look at sarge, the only option they shown is plasma pistol, not even power sword), the regular ones will probably be better in melee to boot.

 

So, what AI can do (besides appeasing 'but muh chainswords' crowd who could already convert them on Reivers ages ago but whatever) to be viable? Only thing I can think of is being cheaper than regular ones, but that would step on fingers of oldmarines. Gain access to all melee weapons, like claws or power mauls? Maybe, but hahaha, let's be real - anyone believes they will given these with current rule writers barring even captains from having any options for reasons, and no indication at all of any in preview image? Especially seeing these ornate wrist guards pretty much rule out hands with weapons being separate from arms? Have tons of extra rules? Any ideas?

 

On a side note, GW should probably errata BA death company to target these instead of regular Intercessors, and funnily enough, they might be kinda-sorta viable in Chapters with chainsword relics grantable to sergeants - but only because again for some inane reason no Primaris besides Intercessor sergeants actually have keys to chapter armory...

[Brother Tyler]

I suppose we'll have to wait and see what their rules and options are before we can make any assertions with any credibility. 

[Metzombie]

Cool, you have access to all the new rules for marines? Care to share some of it? Unless, of course, you are just whining without knowing anything. But why would a sane, intelligent person do that?

[Dagoth Ur]

1.) They look better than Reivers.

 

2.) People have been asking for a more viable CC Primaris Option than the Reivers (We'll have to wait and see how that pans out)

 

3.) People have been specifically asking all over the internet for more non-phobos Primaris marines since the cargo-pants look ain't quite everyone's style.

 

That's about it, I reckon.

[Kite Senet]

There is also the fact that they will be (presumably) a Troops choice rather than Elites, as Reivers are, which means one will be able to actually run a primarily melee Primaris army. My brother seems to be excited about them especially for his Space Wolves, considering he hated all of the existing (exclusively ranged) Primaris Troops choices. (And further, he dislikes Reivers for looking like dorky "tacticool" Call of Duty cosplayers.)

[Deadass]

1.) They look better than Reivers.

 

2.) People have been asking for a more viable CC Primaris Option than the Reivers (We'll have to wait and see how that pans out)

 

3.) People have been specifically asking all over the internet for more non-phobos Primaris marines since the cargo-pants look ain't quite everyone's style.

 

That's about it, I reckon.

 

There is also the fact that they will be (presumably) a Troops choice rather than Elites, as Reivers are, which means one will be able to actually run a primarily melee Primaris army. My brother seems to be excited about them especially for his Space Wolves, considering he hated all of the existing (exclusively ranged) Primaris Troops choices. (And further, he dislikes Reivers for looking like dorky "tacticool" Call of Duty cosplayers.)

This. People who enjoy melee armies - Blood Angels and Space Wolves players especially, I reckon - are going to love having a bunch of basic choppy dudes to fill out their troops slots. Even if they are going to be statistically inferior to Reivers (which, being a minmaxer for a second, are a terrible elites choice).

 

 

It's almost as if people build armies with a theme in mind instead of efficiency.

[Captain Antargo]

If AI can teleport strike, that would really make them more appealing than reivers.

[Metzombie]

If AI can teleport strike, that would really make them more appealing than reivers.

How would that be any diffrent from reivers with grav chutes?

[Captain Antargo]

It isn't

 

 

If AI can teleport strike, that would really make them more appealing than reivers.

How would that be any diffrent from reivers with grav chutes?

 

It isn't...

[Riddlesworth]

There is also the fact that they will be (presumably) a Troops choice rather than Elites, as Reivers are, which means one will be able to actually run a primarily melee Primaris army. My brother seems to be excited about them especially for his Space Wolves, considering he hated all of the existing (exclusively ranged) Primaris Troops choices. (And further, he dislikes Reivers for looking like dorky "tacticool" Call of Duty cosplayers.)

I mean, incursors exist. On the charge a 5 man squad will land a whole 0.7 less hits than a 5 man reiver unit, fill the mandatory troops slot and have turn 1 on board deployment vs deep strike.

 

Similar loo,s though - cargo shorts and dorky helms :)

Edited May 24, 2020 by Riddlesworth

[Dracos]

A) Brother Tyler is correct we need to be cautious in early preconceptions. No rules, no points = no effective analysis.

 

B) Ibris has a fair question. Might have came off overly pessimistic, but it’s I’ve wondered the same and have even asked myself what are Primaris Bikers going to do for my competitive build that Inceptors don’t already do?

 

Look 10x Cooler is my first thought .... and definitely going to grab 10 AI for that reason alone. That and hoping they are Troops are going to slide in immediately to help fill my double battalion slot. If I wasn’t RG I’d be using at least two Impulsors with them, as auxiliary units to reinforce my Incursor/infiltrators holding midfield objectives.

 

Secondly I don’t expect it but they suspect there might be more to them at first glance ... the left arm has a Gravis pauldron and a vambrace. It might just be cosmetic. It might not. See point A)

 

 

I can’t afford starting a second army right now but Empruh I’d love to start a Blood Angel/Red Templar army with this new release.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Dracos

[Marshal Reinhard]

Think I just replied to this thread somewhere else. Oops.

 

But here goes again, apparently the Chainswords the intercessors have are called Astartes chainswords, so here's hoping they have a little more oomph to incentivise us taking them

[Ishagu]

We don't know their full rules, we don't know the weapon profiles, we don't know their force org slot.

 

What's the point of them?

 

I'll tell you when they are released.

[Dracos]

Think I just replied to this thread somewhere else. Oops.

 

But here goes again, apparently the Chainswords the intercessors have are called Astartes chainswords, so here's hoping they have a little more oomph to incentivise us taking them

I had mentioned hopes for a separation between Astartes and other Imperium weapons sharing the same name in the long running Primaris thread. Tip the mug for luck.

[Triszin]

1.) They look better than Reivers.

 

2.) People have been asking for a more viable CC Primaris Option than the Reivers (We'll have to wait and see how that pans out)

 

3.) People have been specifically asking all over the internet for more non-phobos Primaris marines since the cargo-pants look ain't quite everyone's style.

 

That's about it, I reckon.

if they are troops, that alone makes them better than reivers.

 

 

also reinhard, I hope it updates all astartes chainsword across the board

Edited May 25, 2020 by Triszin

[Panzer]

 

1.) They look better than Reivers.

 

2.) People have been asking for a more viable CC Primaris Option than the Reivers (We'll have to wait and see how that pans out)

 

3.) People have been specifically asking all over the internet for more non-phobos Primaris marines since the cargo-pants look ain't quite everyone's style.

 

That's about it, I reckon.

if they are troops, that alone makes them better than reivers.

 

 

also reinhard, I hope it updates all astartes chainsword across the board

 

 

If they are Troops without means to get to the enemy and the chainsword is just a regular one, then no they aren't better at all since Reivers at least get grav-chutes so they can deep strike. At that point you'd just keep taking Intercessors and Incursors for your Troops and move on. 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

 

 

1.) They look better than Reivers.

 

2.) People have been asking for a more viable CC Primaris Option than the Reivers (We'll have to wait and see how that pans out)

 

3.) People have been specifically asking all over the internet for more non-phobos Primaris marines since the cargo-pants look ain't quite everyone's style.

 

That's about it, I reckon.

if they are troops, that alone makes them better than reivers.

 

 

also reinhard, I hope it updates all astartes chainsword across the board

 

 

If they are Troops without means to get to the enemy and the chainsword is just a regular one, then no they aren't better at all since Reivers at least get grav-chutes so they can deep strike. At that point you'd just keep taking Intercessors and Incursors for your Troops and move on. 

 

 

Again though - they were pretty emphatic than 9th Edition is going to make it a lot easier for units like this to get into melee range. You're judging them by the rules of an edition that will be superseded by the time they're actually available for use.

[Beta galactosidase]

The very fact of making their similarity reivers is probably the first real reason GW have had to give rules to chain swords.

 

I thought this thread was actually going to be that there’s no point in the background to walking close combat marines.

 

In the real background, marines mostly had guns. It was only officers with personal weapons and special fast jump packers or tunnel fighting terminators that they got close combat weapons. Even then, basic assault marines could take all the power weapons or power gloves they wanted to, since the reason marines don’t all have power swords obviously isn’t Chapters are too poor.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

1.) They look better than Reivers.

 

2.) People have been asking for a more viable CC Primaris Option than the Reivers (We'll have to wait and see how that pans out)

 

3.) People have been specifically asking all over the internet for more non-phobos Primaris marines since the cargo-pants look ain't quite everyone's style.

 

That's about it, I reckon.

if they are troops, that alone makes them better than reivers.

 

 

also reinhard, I hope it updates all astartes chainsword across the board

 

 

If they are Troops without means to get to the enemy and the chainsword is just a regular one, then no they aren't better at all since Reivers at least get grav-chutes so they can deep strike. At that point you'd just keep taking Intercessors and Incursors for your Troops and move on. 

 

 

Again though - they were pretty emphatic than 9th Edition is going to make it a lot easier for units like this to get into melee range. You're judging them by the rules of an edition that will be superseded by the time they're actually available for use.

 

 

They ALWAYS hype up their stuff a lot and assume people play the game in a specific way which usually is pretty far from reality. Don't read too much into their words. I'm judging them by the only thing we know for a fact and by experience of how they handled things in the past so far.

[Lord Blackwood]

I  feel like regardless of the rules , even if they are as baseline as we are talking about here ,  Reivers are gonna need some kind of buff. 

The one thing they had was  " well we are the close combat guys , we can stop overwatch and deep strike , we dont hit hard  , but were kinda a melee set up unit that doesn't really .... you know do the thing. " 

They  compete in a very crowded slot for some chapters , so it would be nice for them to get a little boost , become the set up unit for units like Assault Intercessors and other harder hitting melee threats. 

I also dont think  being hostile toward the OP is necessary , he has a point the Knifey spooky boys are in a bad spot , and now one of their major things is going to be taken by this new unit , I am excited about  Assault Intercessors , especially if they are troops  but I have two boxes of knife boys I have not even  built because they are so resoundingly meh.  

[Metzombie]

 

In the real background, marines mostly had guns. It was only officers with personal weapons and special fast jump packers or tunnel fighting terminators that they got close combat weapons. Even then, basic assault marines could take all the power weapons or power gloves they wanted to, since the reason marines don’t all have power swords obviously isn’t Chapters are too poor.

And what exactly do you mean with "real background"?

[Red_Shift]

I tend to think cool models will get fielded anyway unless the rules are awful. This kit adds running legs to the tacticus range so is worth it just for that, imo. There is artwork going around from the new 40k site that seems to show inceptors with ccw so it seems it's not the intention to release jump packs for the assault intercessors. I think it just gives more options for melee orientated chapters. Ragnar will look great alongside them for example.

[TheTrans]

I'm going to warrant that these guys will actually get a jump pack when their kit comes out... that paired with the bikes we are finally seeing a true 'move' against the first born. Sprinkle in some special weapons and the optimists won't have a leg to stand on haha. 

[Berzul]

Should they be made as a troop choice, their role would be to offer some close combat marines to build up those detachments from.

Should they be made a fast attack choice, unless they get a transport to carry them, I think reivers might still be the better choice.

[Deadass]

The very fact of making their similarity reivers is probably the first real reason GW have had to give rules to chain swords.

 

I thought this thread was actually going to be that there’s no point in the background to walking close combat marines.

 

In the real background, marines mostly had guns. It was only officers with personal weapons and special fast jump packers or tunnel fighting terminators that they got close combat weapons. Even then, basic assault marines could take all the power weapons or power gloves they wanted to, since the reason marines don’t all have power swords obviously isn’t Chapters are too poor.

That's incorrect. Considering Intercessors have been directly compared to the Legion Tactical Squads of the Great Crusade and Heresy, there's a precedent for footsloggers with melee equipment. Tactical Squads armed with bolt pistols and chainswords were called Despoilers, and several legions made extensive use of them. Hell, the Carcharodons still use tactical squads with CCWs and the 4th ed space marine codex gave you that option as well. Not sure what you rate as "real" background, but it probably isn't what most people would think of.

 

I'm really looking forward to these guys, especially as a part of what I think is the 9th ed starter box. I can finally start a fluffy force for my homebrew chapter - though I'll give the Assault Intercessors battleline markings to further tie them in with the Legion Tacticals and the Despoilers.