Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

We Need A Good Khorne Series

Khorne World Eaters XII Legion Wish

  • Please log in to reply
45 replies to this topic

#26
Scribe

Scribe

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 6,640 posts
  • Faction: Khorne

Yep, also true. I think its just something better covered in a span of development time similar to Betrayer, to Skalathrax or whatever. A novel like Lords of Silence (awesome btw) from how I look at Khorne worship would be tough. 

 

 

 

What would you focus on - and more importantly what would you want written and by whom?

 

 

To answer this, what I would focus on would be the contrasting goals between the Gods. You can absolutely show the nuanced takes that are present at the beginning of Khorne worship, and the various aspects that get touched on, from Honor, Combat, Martial Pride, Brotherhood, Might, and a manic breaking through the point of exhaustion (contrasted with stoic endurance of Nurgle) to the eventual compulsion of murder, the need to become the singular champion, and the eventual loss of self to 'serenity' and being one with a rage so pure, you cease to exist as an individual of ego at all.

 

And finally, the offering of one's self to Khorne, not going out in battle, but on your own blade because ones hate of life is so all consuming, that even their own must end.

 

This is why I have always felt people did not understand Angron. He didnt operate on the same axis point as the other Primarchs, or the Emperor/Imperium. He was not playing to the same end game.

 

While his Legion would become 'nails lost' he found 'serenity'. Until brought back to a consciousness that he no longer wished to have.


Edited by Scribe, 31 May 2020 - 10:38 PM.

  • Lord_Caerolion likes this

DISOBEY

 

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻


#27
Moonreaper666

Moonreaper666

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 592 posts
  • Location:California
I think one way to do a novel similar to Lords of Silence, but for Khorne, is to have an Imperial Fist Chapter defect to Chaos and start worshipping Khorne and absorbing warbands from the World Eaters, Iron Warriors, Night Lirds and other Renegade Chapters or Independent Warbands. Maybe a few Xenos as well

The First novel has 2/3rd of the IF-Successcor Chapter betray the loyal-third while fighting a Khornate warband, absorb the warband and liberate the planet from its Imperial oppressors. They leave the planet with millions of loyal humans/mutants and use a Space Hulk as a mini-craftworld of sorts

The Chaos Lord tries to form a new society/culture that teethers between how the Blood Pact and Khorne Berserkers operate. They expand their Space Hulk as the population and military force increases with each new pirate raid or planet invaded, selling their services. Duels till First Blood, First Limb or to the Death are used to settle grievances, corrupted version of IF culture. They destroy an entire IF-Successor Chapter and assimilate an Iron Warrior warband

Second book is a rivalry between this growing Khornate warband and a growing Slaanesh warband, competing for the allegiance of several smaller warbands as well as territory to raid or get tribute from. This book is more philosophical with small battles happening every now and then. Chaos corruption becomes more prominent and various subfactions are form. Many Chaos Marines take on Apprentices/Neophytes to instill their own 'values' and skills. While most Marines and Cultists worship Khorne, to some extent, there are various minorities

Third book deals with Zhufor the Impaler trying to take multiple planets for his own. The Warband decides to participate in exchange for one of those worlds as their permanent home to ensure that their culture, people and legacy carriers on. The Chaos Lord becomes a Daemon Prince of this new Daemon World and the Epilogue has this warband along with Zhufor's forces participating in the 13th Black Crusade
  • Tarvek Val likes this

#28
godking

godking

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 257 posts

I'd be interested in khornate administrators, in khornate economies, khornate relationships, khornate artists, etc.. There are khornate worlds, in and out of the Eye and they have to function in a way that means they can sustain themselves - there are interesting real world parallels, which could serve as good research for an author exploring the sociology of living in regimes and cultures antithetical to our own cultures, but in which day to day normality *has* to occur (taxes, roads, environmental health, farms, policy, etc.).

It's that wonderful sucking whirlpool daemon from Traitor General; how do khornate societies genuinely function? Which is a lot of worldbuilding, but one which I think should be being done by studio and BL.

Some might say that's really boring, but the actual subsumption or contribution as a rational human to a diabolic culture is fascinating and the source of good art and good journalism & historiography. And with examples from recent like ISIS to the past century's cold war proxy dictatorship, facism and Soviet culture, to older lessons of various empires, cultures and systems, I think there's a lot of material GW/BL could be adapting (and then adding in whirlpool water-stealing daemons to)?

Hammer of Daemons shows a Khornate world.

 

Pretty much a dog eat dog world where only the strongest survive with a little semblance of an organized society



#29
Petitioner's City

Petitioner's City

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,687 posts


I'd be interested in khornate administrators, in khornate economies, khornate relationships, khornate artists, etc.. There are khornate worlds, in and out of the Eye and they have to function in a way that means they can sustain themselves - there are interesting real world parallels, which could serve as good research for an author exploring the sociology of living in regimes and cultures antithetical to our own cultures, but in which day to day normality *has* to occur (taxes, roads, environmental health, farms, policy, etc.).

It's that wonderful sucking whirlpool daemon from Traitor General; how do khornate societies genuinely function? Which is a lot of worldbuilding, but one which I think should be being done by studio and BL.

Some might say that's really boring, but the actual subsumption or contribution as a rational human to a diabolic culture is fascinating and the source of good art and good journalism & historiography. And with examples from recent like ISIS to the past century's cold war proxy dictatorship, facism and Soviet culture, to older lessons of various empires, cultures and systems, I think there's a lot of material GW/BL could be adapting (and then adding in whirlpool water-stealing daemons to)?

Hammer of Daemons shows a Khornate world.

Pretty much a dog eat dog world where only the strongest survive with a little semblance of an organized society

But that's the thing, it's the easiest - and I think most non-sensical and fantastical - idea of a khornate setting, much like the bizarre world of the blood reavers presented in the first AoS novel and fluff. How could society exist in a world of reavers, how could learning and industry and so on?

Instead, I think more thought and world-building is needed - how can khornate societies which could legitimately survive thousands of years exist? The easiest interp of Khorne is blood, violence and death in the most gory ways imaginable - reavers and barbarians and berserkers and the like - but if we think more deeply, less reductively, even more imaginatively, like some of the thoughts in this thread, 'khorne' necessarily becomes more than these limited categories - it has to encompass the many complicated aspects of human society that death cults still must account for (including ones which eulogise suicide or extreme violence, like Daesh's tax collectors, or other totalitarian societies with horrific approaches to life in the past century).

It was just babysteps, but the genius of what Abnett especially did with the Sanguinaey Worlds is allude to a khornate (within a heterogenous, multi-faceted chaotic) culture which was centuries, even millenia, old - yet which sustained itself, without timey-wimey warp trickery. One with artistry, history, economics and culture, and senses of purpose, beyond pure violence. This is really interesting for sure as it means those banal or quotidian aspects of life must be sustained; but what does that involve?
  • Xisor and Lord_Caerolion like this
Cinema itself is a trick of time — still pictures passed through a focused beam of light at 24 frames per second. We are reminded of that in La Jetée...

#30
Lord_Caerolion

Lord_Caerolion

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 4,171 posts
  • Faction: Sons of Sobek

Exactly. There's more to Khorne than ax-crazy murderers beheading everyone in sight. Nurgle worship features more than just turning into an obese zombie cosplayer.

 

One of the things I hated most about the last Dark Elf book before AoS was introduced was that it did exactly what is being somewhat suggested, that the Dark Elves are just constantly sacrificing slaves/each other, and stabbing each other in the back, and infighting. The result is a society that categorically cannot function, but unfortunately the author hand-waved it away in interviews as "well, it's fantasy, so we just pretend it works".


  • Petitioner's City and Bobss like this

"And then Horus landed on the Moon, which looked like the moon. Funny that, isn't it?"


You're hired.


#31
MegaVolt87

MegaVolt87

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,419 posts
  • Faction: Iron Warriors
A mixed warband, core of SoH who replaced their devotion to Horus with Khorne, while retaining their Ctothian warrior/ gang culture would be interesting IMO. Reverse BL, more like how IW's treat defector thin bloods/ half breeds. Internal srtrife over whats more effective, unrestricted violence vs efficently applied etc to please khorne.
gallery_154982_15362_23624.jpg

My Iron Warriors Project   Guns for the guns god!, Bullets for the Brass throne!


#32
godking

godking

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 257 posts

 

 

I'd be interested in khornate administrators, in khornate economies, khornate relationships, khornate artists, etc.. There are khornate worlds, in and out of the Eye and they have to function in a way that means they can sustain themselves - there are interesting real world parallels, which could serve as good research for an author exploring the sociology of living in regimes and cultures antithetical to our own cultures, but in which day to day normality *has* to occur (taxes, roads, environmental health, farms, policy, etc.).

It's that wonderful sucking whirlpool daemon from Traitor General; how do khornate societies genuinely function? Which is a lot of worldbuilding, but one which I think should be being done by studio and BL.

Some might say that's really boring, but the actual subsumption or contribution as a rational human to a diabolic culture is fascinating and the source of good art and good journalism & historiography. And with examples from recent like ISIS to the past century's cold war proxy dictatorship, facism and Soviet culture, to older lessons of various empires, cultures and systems, I think there's a lot of material GW/BL could be adapting (and then adding in whirlpool water-stealing daemons to)?

Hammer of Daemons shows a Khornate world.

Pretty much a dog eat dog world where only the strongest survive with a little semblance of an organized society

But that's the thing, it's the easiest - and I think most non-sensical and fantastical - idea of a khornate setting, much like the bizarre world of the blood reavers presented in the first AoS novel and fluff. How could society exist in a world of reavers, how could learning and industry and so on?

Instead, I think more thought and world-building is needed - how can khornate societies which could legitimately survive thousands of years exist? The easiest interp of Khorne is blood, violence and death in the most gory ways imaginable - reavers and barbarians and berserkers and the like - but if we think more deeply, less reductively, even more imaginatively, like some of the thoughts in this thread, 'khorne' necessarily becomes more than these limited categories - it has to encompass the many complicated aspects of human society that death cults still must account for (including ones which eulogise suicide or extreme violence, like Daesh's tax collectors, or other totalitarian societies with horrific approaches to life in the past century).

It was just babysteps, but the genius of what Abnett especially did with the Sanguinaey Worlds is allude to a khornate (within a heterogenous, multi-faceted chaotic) culture which was centuries, even millenia, old - yet which sustained itself, without timey-wimey warp trickery. One with artistry, history, economics and culture, and senses of purpose, beyond pure violence. This is really interesting for sure as it means those banal or quotidian aspects of life must be sustained; but what does that involve?

 

I think the best you are realistically going to get from a khornate society is a society with one top dog ruling over lesser lords.

 

With the lesser lords giving tribute to the top dog while scheming to overthrow him and the lowly forced to give tribute to the lesser lords.

 

As long as the top dog stays on top society is relatively organized and stable with a slave based economy.

 

With only as much education as is needed to be useful in that society and artistry depending on the skill of the slaves captured in raids and the taste of the top dog.

 

If the top dog falls you get decades/centuries of infighting reducing society to rubble until another top dog rises wash rince repeat.



#33
Moonreaper666

Moonreaper666

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 592 posts
  • Location:California


I'd be interested in khornate administrators, in khornate economies, khornate relationships, khornate artists, etc.. There are khornate worlds, in and out of the Eye and they have to function in a way that means they can sustain themselves - there are interesting real world parallels, which could serve as good research for an author exploring the sociology of living in regimes and cultures antithetical to our own cultures, but in which day to day normality *has* to occur (taxes, roads, environmental health, farms, policy, etc.).

It's that wonderful sucking whirlpool daemon from Traitor General; how do khornate societies genuinely function? Which is a lot of worldbuilding, but one which I think should be being done by studio and BL.

Some might say that's really boring, but the actual subsumption or contribution as a rational human to a diabolic culture is fascinating and the source of good art and good journalism & historiography. And with examples from recent like ISIS to the past century's cold war proxy dictatorship, facism and Soviet culture, to older lessons of various empires, cultures and systems, I think there's a lot of material GW/BL could be adapting (and then adding in whirlpool water-stealing daemons to)?

Hammer of Daemons shows a Khornate world.

Pretty much a dog eat dog world where only the strongest survive with a little semblance of an organized society
But that's the thing, it's the easiest - and I think most non-sensical and fantastical - idea of a khornate setting, much like the bizarre world of the blood reavers presented in the first AoS novel and fluff. How could society exist in a world of reavers, how could learning and industry and so on?

Instead, I think more thought and world-building is needed - how can khornate societies which could legitimately survive thousands of years exist? The easiest interp of Khorne is blood, violence and death in the most gory ways imaginable - reavers and barbarians and berserkers and the like - but if we think more deeply, less reductively, even more imaginatively, like some of the thoughts in this thread, 'khorne' necessarily becomes more than these limited categories - it has to encompass the many complicated aspects of human society that death cults still must account for (including ones which eulogise suicide or extreme violence, like Daesh's tax collectors, or other totalitarian societies with horrific approaches to life in the past century).

It was just babysteps, but the genius of what Abnett especially did with the Sanguinaey Worlds is allude to a khornate (within a heterogenous, multi-faceted chaotic) culture which was centuries, even millenia, old - yet which sustained itself, without timey-wimey warp trickery. One with artistry, history, economics and culture, and senses of purpose, beyond pure violence. This is really interesting for sure as it means those banal or quotidian aspects of life must be sustained; but what does that involve?
I think the best you are realistically going to get from a khornate society is a society with one top dog ruling over lesser lords.

With the lesser lords giving tribute to the top dog while scheming to overthrow him and the lowly forced to give tribute to the lesser lords.

As long as the top dog stays on top society is relatively organized and stable with a slave based economy.

With only as much education as is needed to be useful in that society and artistry depending on the skill of the slaves captured in raids and the taste of the top dog.

If the top dog falls you get decades/centuries of infighting reducing society to rubble until another top dog rises wash rince repeat.

You just describe the Blood Pact and other non-CSM Chaos Forces in the Sabbat Worlds Crusade

The Stigmartus are just an Undivided version of the Blood Pact, the latter mostly Khornate

#34
MetalMammoth

MetalMammoth

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 187 posts

An authentic Khornate novel, written by Metalmammoth:

 

Chapter 1, page 1:

 

rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA....

 

Chapter 12, page 150:

 

....AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

 

-End-


  • Tarvek Val likes this

#35
Scribe

Scribe

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 6,640 posts
  • Faction: Khorne

An authentic Khornate novel, written by Metalmammoth:

 

Chapter 1, page 1:

 

rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA....

 

Chapter 12, page 150:

 

....AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

 

-End-

 

I mean you are joking, probably, but thats the exact attitude a lot of people had, and is why people have such a poor understanding of what Khorne is about really.


  • Lord_Caerolion, Petitioner's City and Kelborn like this

DISOBEY

 

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻


#36
Lord_Caerolion

Lord_Caerolion

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 4,171 posts
  • Faction: Sons of Sobek

Khorne is more, and needs to be shown as more, than "Hulk SMASH!"


  • Petitioner's City and Tarvek Val like this

"And then Horus landed on the Moon, which looked like the moon. Funny that, isn't it?"


You're hired.


#37
Tarvek Val

Tarvek Val

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 331 posts
  • Location:Nostramo
  • Faction: Night Lords

It's been a very, very long time since I read the Grey Knights series by Ben Counter (and I'm not going to praise it as a masterpiece by any means), but didn't one of the stories feature the main character being enslaved by a champion of Khorne? I don't remember the course of events all that well, but I seem to recall some decent scenes detailing a bitter rivalry between different champions of Khorne, without the whole over-utilized "big red warrior with big bloody axe need skulls for big skull mountain to please Big Red God" trope that got worked into a lot of 40k works especially. Think the Chaos lord might have been Venalitor? 

 

I'd like to see a book / series about a champion of Khorne that embodies some of the Blood God's lesser-known traits. In the older works pertaining to the Old World especially, Khorne stood for bravery, honor, and strength as much as he embodied death and destruction. It would be great, in my opinion, to see a Chaos Champion of Khorne that had some of these traits in the 41st Millennium. Maybe something like a Chaos Marine with a sense of honor that spares civilians, in the hopes that they will grow up to be good future adversaries? Just a thought.


  • Xisor, Petitioner's City and Kelborn like this

"Our holy hatred will make us free!" ~Nameless Dark Apostle

 

"Though my guards may sleep and ships may rest at anchor, our foes know full well that big guns never tire." ~Huron Blackheart

 

"You shall stand in midnight clad, your claws forever red with the lifeblood of my father's failed empire, warring through the centuries as the talons of a murdered god. Rise, my sons, and take your wrath across the stars, in my name. In my memory. Rise, my Night Lords." ~Konrad Curze, the Night Haunter

 

"So... How are you?" ~Cyrion, First Claw

 

 


#38
Petitioner's City

Petitioner's City

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,687 posts


I'd be interested in khornate administrators, in khornate economies, khornate relationships, khornate artists, etc.. There are khornate worlds, in and out of the Eye and they have to function in a way that means they can sustain themselves - there are interesting real world parallels, which could serve as good research for an author exploring the sociology of living in regimes and cultures antithetical to our own cultures, but in which day to day normality *has* to occur (taxes, roads, environmental health, farms, policy, etc.).

It's that wonderful sucking whirlpool daemon from Traitor General; how do khornate societies genuinely function? Which is a lot of worldbuilding, but one which I think should be being done by studio and BL.

Some might say that's really boring, but the actual subsumption or contribution as a rational human to a diabolic culture is fascinating and the source of good art and good journalism & historiography. And with examples from recent like ISIS to the past century's cold war proxy dictatorship, facism and Soviet culture, to older lessons of various empires, cultures and systems, I think there's a lot of material GW/BL could be adapting (and then adding in whirlpool water-stealing daemons to)?

Hammer of Daemons shows a Khornate world.

Pretty much a dog eat dog world where only the strongest survive with a little semblance of an organized society
But that's the thing, it's the easiest - and I think most non-sensical and fantastical - idea of a khornate setting, much like the bizarre world of the blood reavers presented in the first AoS novel and fluff. How could society exist in a world of reavers, how could learning and industry and so on?

Instead, I think more thought and world-building is needed - how can khornate societies which could legitimately survive thousands of years exist? The easiest interp of Khorne is blood, violence and death in the most gory ways imaginable - reavers and barbarians and berserkers and the like - but if we think more deeply, less reductively, even more imaginatively, like some of the thoughts in this thread, 'khorne' necessarily becomes more than these limited categories - it has to encompass the many complicated aspects of human society that death cults still must account for (including ones which eulogise suicide or extreme violence, like Daesh's tax collectors, or other totalitarian societies with horrific approaches to life in the past century).

It was just babysteps, but the genius of what Abnett especially did with the Sanguinaey Worlds is allude to a khornate (within a heterogenous, multi-faceted chaotic) culture which was centuries, even millenia, old - yet which sustained itself, without timey-wimey warp trickery. One with artistry, history, economics and culture, and senses of purpose, beyond pure violence. This is really interesting for sure as it means those banal or quotidian aspects of life must be sustained; but what does that involve?
I think the best you are realistically going to get from a khornate society is a society with one top dog ruling over lesser lords.

With the lesser lords giving tribute to the top dog while scheming to overthrow him and the lowly forced to give tribute to the lesser lords.

As long as the top dog stays on top society is relatively organized and stable with a slave based economy.

With only as much education as is needed to be useful in that society and artistry depending on the skill of the slaves captured in raids and the taste of the top dog.

If the top dog falls you get decades/centuries of infighting reducing society to rubble until another top dog rises wash rince repeat.
I get what you mean. I think I want more, a deconstruction or re-envisioning of Khorne - but when I wrote out my reply at first it was perhaps too close - or suitbaly close to - the imperium.

I do think authors should be looking beyond tropes of barbarians, however, for khornate civilisations - as the fictional idea we often see of barbarians is quite ahistorical or fantastical.

I do think an anthropological, history and/or sociological approach is needed - that really broad detailed sense of both the processes of society but also the detail of human experience within that that isn't just the cliches we expect. What makes a strain of khornate culture (with its bloodshed, its worship, etc) work, and how do people - not just soldiers or warriors - live within that. I also think heterodoxy is a good lens: how do different people (and mutants, abhumans, etc) fulfilling different roles and from different backgrounds live, breathe, resist and embody varied engagements with khornate faith.

Honestly I think a masterwork of this kind of deconstructive-cum-reconstructive world-building is Una McCormack's Never-Ending Sacrifice, one of the best licenced pieces of fiction I've ever read (see this review - https://www.tor.com/...ding-sacrifice/). Throughout this conversation I've kept thinking of her works like it or later works that not only tell excellent stories but really comment on the human condition. Her approach to envisioning grinding, martial societies and how people function within that just feels so right (in my mind) for the civilian side of Khorne (and the Imperium too). Plus she makes you cry - I wish BL could snap her up! :D

Edited by Petitioner's City, 10 June 2020 - 09:44 PM.

  • Tarvek Val likes this
Cinema itself is a trick of time — still pictures passed through a focused beam of light at 24 frames per second. We are reminded of that in La Jetée...

#39
Lord_Caerolion

Lord_Caerolion

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 4,171 posts
  • Faction: Sons of Sobek

Damnit, this discussion is making me want to do a zen Khornate warband, that sees warfare as super-ritualized and the World Eaters as little better than beasts. They didn't turn to Khorne because "rargh blood slaughter kill", but because death is the one constant in the galaxy.


  • Xisor, Petitioner's City and Tarvek Val like this

"And then Horus landed on the Moon, which looked like the moon. Funny that, isn't it?"


You're hired.


#40
Petitioner's City

Petitioner's City

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,687 posts

Damnit, this discussion is making me want to do a zen Khornate warband, that sees warfare as super-ritualized and the World Eaters as little better than beasts. They didn't turn to Khorne because "rargh blood slaughter kill", but because death is the one constant in the galaxy.


A lovely idea - so much could be distilled into this - philosophy, religion, literature, and historical precedent. Quite Big Boss too ;)
  • Xisor and Lord_Caerolion like this
Cinema itself is a trick of time — still pictures passed through a focused beam of light at 24 frames per second. We are reminded of that in La Jetée...

#41
Moonreaper666

Moonreaper666

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 592 posts
  • Location:California
Have Daemon Worlds controlled by Khorne organize into a society similar to Knightly Orders such as the Knight templars. They train only a few soldiers at a time but they are the best only outmatched by veteran CSM

These Chaos soldiers fight against the Black Templar, Death Korps and Sisters of Battle

#42
Lord_Caerolion

Lord_Caerolion

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 4,171 posts
  • Faction: Sons of Sobek

 

Damnit, this discussion is making me want to do a zen Khornate warband, that sees warfare as super-ritualized and the World Eaters as little better than beasts. They didn't turn to Khorne because "rargh blood slaughter kill", but because death is the one constant in the galaxy.


A lovely idea - so much could be distilled into this - philosophy, religion, literature, and historical precedent. Quite Big Boss too msn-wink.gif

 

 

Now I just need to think of a name. Disciples of Brass? Leaning away from "blood" in the name, as I've already got a cannibal Nurgle warband being done, the Vectorium of Sanguine Fecundity. I've already decided on the scheme, white armour, red arms, brass trim.  They're basically a death cult, started off worshiping the Emperor as such before they moved to a "purer" version of their faith.


"And then Horus landed on the Moon, which looked like the moon. Funny that, isn't it?"


You're hired.


#43
godking

godking

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 257 posts

It's been a very, very long time since I read the Grey Knights series by Ben Counter (and I'm not going to praise it as a masterpiece by any means), but didn't one of the stories feature the main character being enslaved by a champion of Khorne? I don't remember the course of events all that well, but I seem to recall some decent scenes detailing a bitter rivalry between different champions of Khorne, without the whole over-utilized "big red warrior with big bloody axe need skulls for big skull mountain to please Big Red God" trope that got worked into a lot of 40k works especially. Think the Chaos lord might have been Venalitor? 

 

I'd like to see a book / series about a champion of Khorne that embodies some of the Blood God's lesser-known traits. In the older works pertaining to the Old World especially, Khorne stood for bravery, honor, and strength as much as he embodied death and destruction. It would be great, in my opinion, to see a Chaos Champion of Khorne that had some of these traits in the 41st Millennium. Maybe something like a Chaos Marine with a sense of honor that spares civilians, in the hopes that they will grow up to be good future adversaries? Just a thought.

Hammer of Daemons.

 

Just reread it this week

 

And yes the chaos lord was named Venilator.

 

And there was some nuance in the Khornate society but it was still a dog eat dog society with an Overlord (Ebondrake) bullying/ruling over lesser lords.


Edited by godking, 19 June 2020 - 01:35 PM.

  • Tarvek Val likes this

#44
Xisor

Xisor

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,222 posts

It's into AoS - but it dovetails the point precisely, I'm starting in Red Feast and I am really enjoying it.

 

It's plainly got overtures of Khorne, and possibly that's obvious knowing roughly what the end result has to be, but Gav is properly painting a pleasantly varied, but not ill-fitting pre-Chaos culture. It's kinda lovely to see.

 

I'm only at the start of it, but it feels very much like it's working. And just what - given this sort of thread - I am after!


  • Petitioner's City and Kelborn like this

#45
DarkChaplain

DarkChaplain

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,458 posts
  • Location:Germany

I think WHFB/AoS has a distinct advantage dealing with Chaos, and Khorne in particular, compared to 40k.

 

While Cultists in 40k obviously exist, they're generally not relevant when contrasted with Chaos Marines. And those Chaos Marines? They never really had a civilian life. I mean, they did, but were taken as children and close to mind-wiped. They might've been loyalists who then turned renegade due to slipping off the deep end over endless warfare, or had a grudge against how the Emperor does things. But even then, turning often involves more than just individuals, often more like entire companies or Chapters. And all of them are already military dudes with numbed emotional responses and general inhumanity.

 

In Fantasy/AoS, Chaos-corruption very much happens to regular people. Yes, they may have been fighting in wars, too, but they still had homes to come back to, friends and family. They might turn to worshipping the Pantheon over a negligent god, a lost loved one, unfair treatment by authorities, bad harvests, famine, excess indulgence, magic artifacts - the whole range of reasons. And when they turn, they'll remember. Their memories and perception may warp over time, but they'll still have that experience in the back of their heads. They're still very much human until encroaching daemonhood or gifts come upon them... or they turn Spawn. They might grow hooves, feathers, additional eyes, horns, and generally bulk up by serving their patron - but in a sense, their rise to power is much more tangible thanks to that. With Marines, it's power armor uniformity with some gimmicks.

 

But because they bring their emotional and mental baggage from before, Fantasy!Chaos ends up with much more character, more inspiration and motivation for storytelling, and potential for growth... or a steep fall. Established hierarchy isn't nearly as relevant for them as it is for Marines. Their influence within their warbands directly relates to their ability in service of the patron deity - as does their relative strength. With Marines, they all start on a muuuuch higher skill floor, and the ceiling isn't too far above that unless they go for daemonhood.

 

And even if Khorne is all about warfare and bloodshed, a civilian turning to him will have a much wider spectrum of available storytelling hooks than some bloke who's been shooting bolters and revving chainswords for the past couple of centuries to begin with. For Fantasy folks, turning to Chaos may also offer a way to achieve functional immortality - especially so with AoS - whereas Marines already got that anyway. In a way, there's much less to gain for 40k dudes and dudettes.


  • fire golem, Scribe, cheywood and 2 others like this

#46
Tarvek Val

Tarvek Val

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 331 posts
  • Location:Nostramo
  • Faction: Night Lords

 

It's been a very, very long time since I read the Grey Knights series by Ben Counter (and I'm not going to praise it as a masterpiece by any means), but didn't one of the stories feature the main character being enslaved by a champion of Khorne? I don't remember the course of events all that well, but I seem to recall some decent scenes detailing a bitter rivalry between different champions of Khorne, without the whole over-utilized "big red warrior with big bloody axe need skulls for big skull mountain to please Big Red God" trope that got worked into a lot of 40k works especially. Think the Chaos lord might have been Venalitor? 

 

I'd like to see a book / series about a champion of Khorne that embodies some of the Blood God's lesser-known traits. In the older works pertaining to the Old World especially, Khorne stood for bravery, honor, and strength as much as he embodied death and destruction. It would be great, in my opinion, to see a Chaos Champion of Khorne that had some of these traits in the 41st Millennium. Maybe something like a Chaos Marine with a sense of honor that spares civilians, in the hopes that they will grow up to be good future adversaries? Just a thought.

Hammer of Daemons.

 

Just reread it this week

 

And yes the chaos lord was named Venilator.

 

And there was some nuance in the Khornate society but it was still a dog eat dog society with an Overlord (Ebondrake) bullying/ruling over lesser lords.

 

 

I'm glad I didn't just make that entire plot up in my head! biggrin.png

 

I remember it doing a decent job of showing the rivalry between the different warbands in service to Ebondrake. Seeing a bit more of the world's hierarchy and politics beyond just rule by martial strength would have been nice, but I suppose Khorne's disciples wouldn't the main focus of a book about Grey Knights...


"Our holy hatred will make us free!" ~Nameless Dark Apostle

 

"Though my guards may sleep and ships may rest at anchor, our foes know full well that big guns never tire." ~Huron Blackheart

 

"You shall stand in midnight clad, your claws forever red with the lifeblood of my father's failed empire, warring through the centuries as the talons of a murdered god. Rise, my sons, and take your wrath across the stars, in my name. In my memory. Rise, my Night Lords." ~Konrad Curze, the Night Haunter

 

"So... How are you?" ~Cyrion, First Claw

 

 






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Khorne, World Eaters, XII Legion, Wish

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users