Prediction on 9th & how it will affect DA

[G8Keeper]

I would expect things like our RW warlord trait to be Faq'd as there's quite a few rules that this affects, power of the machine spirit comes to mind as a major one.

[Grand Master Raziel]

G8Keeper, on 09 Jun 2020 - 03:34 AM, said:

With regards to points going up, Stu Black said in one of the recent chats that people have slightly over-egged the changes as they're basing an assumed 20% increase across 3000 or so units and wargear options on their example of 2, it's not that high.  He said he's lost probably a unit of marines from his 2000pt list, granted we don't know what unit that is smile.png.

 

Edit: Changed Pete Foley to Stu Black because my mind doesn't work.

 

 

Well, if we start getting used to squeezing 400pts out of our 2000pt lists, and when the edition drops we only have to squeeze out 200pts, then we get to keep more than we expected and we're all happy guys! If we assume too low on the points hikes and have to drop more units than we thought, then that's just going to make us sad. Better to go with the 20% and hopefully be pleasantly surprised.

 

I do fear that troop choices might become even MORE irrelevant now, in light of the new edition. Specially for a codex such as ours.

 

 

I think OldMarine troops may become irrelevant, but Primaris Troops are solid on their own strengths.  There's a spicy stratagem for every loadout of Intercessor, Infiltrators have the omni-scramblers, and Incursors...well, Infiltrators have the omni-scrambler. :P I can well see either Intercessors or Infiltrators making it into lists on their own merits separate from CP mining or objective holding.  Scouts may even still make it in, if only for cheap board control, or slightly less cheap character threatening. I'm also thinking specialist detachments are probably going to cost more CP than battalions, so we may well still want to go with battalions as our go-to formation for keeping maximum CP during the list building phase. That'll mean we still want 3 Troops choices.

[G8Keeper]

Blast weapons now get 3+ attacks vs units of size 6 or more and maximum attacks against 11+. This is very good news for our plasma cannons, let alone vindicators etc.

[Berzul]

AS a guy who always brings palsma cannons in my tactical squads, uses 3 missile launchers in a devastator squad, and has 2 castellan whirlwinds in the queue for paint, I am VERY happy with these changes.

[Angel of Solitude]

I’m interested to see what happens with flamers. On the one hand, they should absolutely benefit from the blast rule. However, if they are blast weapons, then my flamestorms won’t be able to fire at any units my Land Raider is within engagement range of.

[G8Keeper]

That may well be the trade off, more random in terms of shots but very deadly in combat. I wouldn't be surprised to see a minimum number of hits in larger units though.

[Berzul]

I think this will make Typhoon + MM landspeeder units CRAZY good.

Good firepower with blasts vs hordes, good anti armor for tanks. With no penalties while moving.

[Skywrath]

I think this will make Typhoon + MM landspeeder units CRAZY good.

 

Good firepower with blasts vs hordes, good anti armor for tanks. With no penalties while moving.

 

On the topic of Typhoon, do you think DWT might see play, assuming the cyclone missile launchers get blast rule?

[Berzul]

I expect the Cyclone Missile Launcher to be way too expensive an option this edition, but yeah... might be.

 

With Terminators, though, I tend to prefer cheaper options, so I can add more things to supplement them.

[Angel of Solitude]

CML has a 2D3 profile, so if my understanding is correct, you’ll be getting full hits on squad sizes of 6 or more. That’s quite tasty!

 

But let’s also add Aggressors to the mix. Supported by a Chaplain, those things could be firing out 24 S4 shots each against hordes of 11+...that’s insanely efficient.

 

A final unit that might benefit from this is the Landspeeder Vengeance, specifically against MEQ units of 6+. A minimum of 3 shots now hitting on a 3+ if it had moved might make it more reliable.

[G8Keeper]

CML has a 2D3 profile, so if my understanding is correct, you’ll be getting full hits on squad sizes of 6 or more. That’s quite tasty!

 

But let’s also add Aggressors to the mix. Supported by a Chaplain, those things could be firing out 24 S4 shots each against hordes of 11+...that’s insanely efficient.

 

A final unit that might benefit from this is the Landspeeder Vengeance, specifically against MEQ units of 6+. A minimum of 3 shots now hitting on a 3+ if it had moved might make it more reliable.

 

The Vengeance just needs to lose it's "your weapon is useless after 1 overheat" special rule and I suspect it will become a lot more prevalent thanks to these rules.  Whirlwinds, Vindicators and possibly Dark Talons with their Rift Cannons (!!) will also benefit greatly.

[Angel of Solitude]

Yeah. That’s always been a really dumb mechanic which hopefully they’ll change in the next codex.

 

Firing your Rift Cannon into a mini horde feels a bit inefficient for a S10 weapon...but if you’re lucky enough to come across a 6-man squad of Aggressors in the wild, then it will be brutal.

[G8Keeper]

Yeah. That’s always been a really dumb mechanic which hopefully they’ll change in the next codex.

 

Firing your Rift Cannon into a mini horde feels a bit inefficient for a S10 weapon...but if you’re lucky enough to come across a 6-man squad of Aggressors in the wild, then it will be brutal.

 

Hey it's one more string in your bow right? Fly over a 10-man marine squad of any type and drop the stasis bomb, hoping for 4 casualties max.  Then add the rift cannon and hurricane bolters to make their day messy.

[Knight Artorias]

Sounds like Ravenwing could be really, really good. Let's see how the points affect things. 

[G8Keeper]

Sounds like Ravenwing could be really, really good. Let's see how the points affect things. 

 

I'm predicting 210pts for a Dark Talon, let's see how close I get.

[Berzul]

CML has a 2D3 profile, so if my understanding is correct, you’ll be getting full hits on squad sizes of 6 or more. That’s quite tasty!

 

But let’s also add Aggressors to the mix. Supported by a Chaplain, those things could be firing out 24 S4 shots each against hordes of 11+...that’s insanely efficient.

 

A final unit that might benefit from this is the Landspeeder Vengeance, specifically against MEQ units of 6+. A minimum of 3 shots now hitting on a 3+ if it had moved might make it more reliable.

Someone commented on the FB page of Warhammer Community, that apparently Frag Missiles will NOT have Blast as a rule, according to the commentary given in the podcasts by the designers and testers. Apparently, Missiles being so abundant, would give way to too much of an overwhelming amount of firepower. I imagine if this is true, then CML might not have Blast either.

[Angel of Solitude]

That would make sense for fragmentation weapons to not be blast weapons, not just because of their proliferation but also in the way they might interfere with fragstom launchers on vehicles and the likes.

[aura_enchanted]

units to watch in the codex based on what we know so far:

 

land raiders - may become useful, might not we will see, i dont see enough reason to yet leap for the reinforced safe on tracks but they may bcome amazing if castling in terrain becomes popular enough in early 9th as a way of digging out stuff like broadsides or devestator centurions

 

drop pods/veterans - drop veterans may become excellent at striking from a vulnerable weak point at an enemy, a good pinch hitter for digging someone out of a normally defensive position on the table

 

whirlwinds/thunderfire cannons (and variants), may become useful for digging forces out of cover from range

 

techmarines - the secondary hq if your bringing ranged forces of choice, he in fact may become auto take in your forces if points are available even without that, as being able to reinforce a piece of terrain may proove an important step to securing yourself from turn 1 ranged attack

 

fortifications: unlikely but we may see some of the more affordable ones come back like the aegis defense line and wall of martyrs, i doubt we will see others become useful like the firestorm or the fortress of redemption

 

dreadnaughts: spoecifically leviathans, contempors, deredeos, redemptors, and venerables. standard box boy is impossible to make relevant at this point. wrist mounted flamers may become an auto take as a personal defense weapon from melee, or when dealing with trash charges to try and tarpit

 

bike squadrons: lets be honest their going nowhere their too good to not be autotake in most armies. the combi melta may become useful again or combi gravs to soften up enemies you intend to charge, max squads only more then likely.

 

land speeders: auto take i think is safe to say either as anti infantry or anti tank roles. too many useful applications and the dark shrouds are gonna disappear from the shelves they might be in such high demand

 

dark talons: yep might become really good, not highest tier quality but a strong strong unit none the less

 

devestators: devestators might become really good again

 

scouts/eliminators: will come back as backline objective token campers for sure if theres a mad race to the bottom on unit costs in chapter approveds

 

HQ's: asmodai is dumpstered again, lazarus, azreal and sammael might become really good ezekiel will be fairly medicore i think, belial will be bad same with asmodai

[Angel of Solitude]

So, those aircraft rules make life very interesting. I can see a lot fo fun to be had with some of our flyers being able to arrive from strategic reserves and just over 9" away from the nearest enemy. However, there are two critical things I need to understand now:

1. Can you start the game in strategic reserves, or can you only enter strategic reserves by flying off the board? If the former, then this is a great way to protect flyers when going second;
2. If the aircraft is a transport, then I'm guessing you won't be able to deploy on the same turn you arrive (and perhaps certainly not make a charge).

Nevertheless, I feel it might be a good time to invest in screening units and dedicated anti-air...

[aura_enchanted]

So, those aircraft rules make life very interesting. I can see a lot fo fun to be had with some of our flyers being able to arrive from strategic reserves and just over 9" away from the nearest enemy. However, there are two critical things I need to understand now:

1. Can you start the game in strategic reserves, or can you only enter strategic reserves by flying off the board? If the former, then this is a great way to protect flyers when going second;
2. If the aircraft is a transport, then I'm guessing you won't be able to deploy on the same turn you arrive (and perhaps certainly not make a charge).

Nevertheless, I feel it might be a good time to invest in screening units and dedicated anti-air...

u may be able to deploy directly to the ground if the flyer allows such as the old rules for the sokar pattern stormbird or the ravenhawk strike force (supplement ravenguard formation 7th edition), or if you have a skyshield. granted a skyshield can only be deployed in your deployment zone but this may be a way to hold devestators in reserves or perhaps an anti tank missile and lascannon dreadnaught (as an example).

[Gederas]

It's going to be kind to Ravenwing players at the least. At least three new units, the revealed Outriders, the leaked speeder and the Invader ATV.

 

ATV?

Oh yeah, this thing:

 

They dropped a surprise on us at the end of the stream

 

 

 

Invader ATV

Combat bikes are great, but sometimes you’ve gotta bring the big guns along for the ride.

Invaders can go anywhere your Outriders can go, and you can arm them with either an onslaught gatling cannon or a multi-melta to lay down some serious supporting firepower in a hurry. Talking of big guns…

 

Interesting....

 

Oh and a "Firestrike Servo-turret", because why not?

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Gederas

[Angel of Solitude]

I have so much love for that ATV. I don’t care how competitive it is going to be, but 9th Edition will be Ravenwing all the way for me!

[Skywrath]

I also like the ATV, however a bit of a details thing, it looks a tad too squishy to be considered heavy support ;p, I mean the driver looks like he could be easily shot.

 

The turret looks cool though, but if I were to see it as a Tarantula turret, I doubt it will see much play. Maybe if it's a replacement to the thunderfire cannon, then maybe. 

[Dumah]

I also like the ATV, however a bit of a details thing, it looks a tad too squishy to be considered heavy support ;p, I mean the driver looks like he could be easily shot.

 

The turret looks cool though, but if I were to see it as a Tarantula turret, I doubt it will see much play. Maybe if it's a replacement to the thunderfire cannon, then maybe. 

 

I think Heavy Support is defined more by the firepower than resilience of the unit.

[Skywrath]

 

I also like the ATV, however a bit of a details thing, it looks a tad too squishy to be considered heavy support ;p, I mean the driver looks like he could be easily shot.

 

The turret looks cool though, but if I were to see it as a Tarantula turret, I doubt it will see much play. Maybe if it's a replacement to the thunderfire cannon, then maybe. 

 

I think Heavy Support is defined more by the firepower than resilience of the unit.

 

 

I mean relatively speaking (i.e appearance), not actually speaking (i.e the heavy support role) - I believe I stated my reasoning for that before :)